United Macedonia Diaspora

[Vangelovski]

Mastika,

Ljupco Stankovski, UMD supporter and former Board Member, witnessed Meto ask for the oro, had Meto tell him its a Macedonian oro and then watched Meto dance it. It was all reported on in his newspaper, The Australian Macedonian Weekly. You should be able to find it online and I think there was a thread about it here.

[julie]

Mikail, that is an interesting point.
Hey the dude stuffed up, that is all he needs to do - say I did not know it was not Maco and leave it at that.
This is a very long thread, I feel like I am in kindergarten again singing a song I did not know what ut meant.
Here we go round the mulberry bush, and ring a ring a rosie.

[Buktop]

If my view is not obvious to you from my own posts, me summing it up for you in a sentance won't help you much.

Then your vision is no different than mine, and like I said before, our only difference is the way to achieve it.

[Buktop]

Ok.... here we go round the mulberry bush.... So Meto said he made a mistake at 5:39. If it wasn't recorded and put up for all to see would any one outside that meeting have known. If Julie or RTG came here and said,

"Meto admitted to making a mistake"

Would you have taken that at face value? Or would you have spent 40 pages asking for evidence?

Time to give up the charade here and come clean. Buktop, are you really Meto? Or are you in his secretary and you merely write what he dictates?

Mikail, SoM asked me this

Where did he apologise for it? Are you going to start this whole charade again? That other UMD member, Mitreski I think, he was the one who apologised for it, on behalf of Meto, after which Meto seems to have distanced himself from the former's comment.

I know he, and most of the people on this forum have seen the video in question, so I merely reminded people what was actually said.

I don't know what the point of your post is....

[Risto the Great]

YouTube - MTO UMD 1 5:39 seconds, he admits it was a mistake and that he should not have said it, that counts as an apology.

Buktop, he went on to justify his original position. You must have a serious character defect if you cannot accept this.

But I have come to accept there are many many Macedonians who accept people in positions of influence irrespective of their intentions. It is an unfortunate remnant of our 500 years of collective slavery. I choose not to perpetuate this kind of weakness.

[Vangelovski]

Then your vision is no different than mine, and like I said before, our only difference is the way to achieve it.

I don't think so.

[makedonche]

I concede that many here do not view it as an apology and that is fine, whether or not it is or isn't doesn't bother me, what is important is that he recognized that it was a mistake, admitted it, and has since rectified it. If that is not progress I don't know what is.

Rather than an apology I would say that it's more of an acknowledgement, a forced one at that - imposed by somebody else pointing it out. Whilst it may not bother you whether it is or isn't an apology I can tell you it certainly bothers me and I would guess many others here at the MTO, and this may well be one of the differences in perception on views between Meto/UMD and the MTO members. My view is that people holding postioins of authority and making representations on behalf of others should be held to a higher level of accountability than the ordinary person. Bearing this in mind it becomes even more critical that apologies and mistakes are clearly acknowledged and identified with urgency and clarity and awareness of them relayed to the relevant constituents/followers/supporters, as a priority in order to avoid uncertainty or misinterpreted views, which in turn will avoid lengthy debates and disputes about what is said, what is intended and what it means.

[Buktop]

Buktop, he went on to justify his original position. You must have a serious character defect if you cannot accept this.

But I have come to accept there are many many Macedonians who accept people in positions of influence irrespective of their intentions. It is an unfortunate remnant of our 500 years of collective slavery. I choose not to perpetuate this kind of weakness.

He went on to explain himself, not to advocate the action, it is one thing if he said I made a mistake, but we should change the name. He said he made a mistake, has now advocated that we should not change the name, and then explained why he made the mistake, not in an attempt to absolve himself of guilt, but to reach an understanding.

I have no defect, nor am I a subservient slave to authority, from working with him I know his intentions are honorable, mistakes can be made, I can forgive, but I never forget.

[Buktop]

Rather than an apology I would say that it's more of an acknowledgement, a forced one at that - imposed by somebody else pointing it out. Whilst it may not bother you whether it is or isn't an apology I can tell you it certainly bothers me and I would guess many others here at the MTO, and this may well be one of the differences in perception on views between Meto/UMD and the MTO members. My view is that people holding postioins of authority and making representations on behalf of others should be held to a higher level of accountability than the ordinary person. Bearing this in mind it becomes even more critical that apologies and mistakes are clearly acknowledged and identified with urgency and clarity and awareness of them relayed to the relevant constituents/followers/supporters, as a priority in order to avoid uncertainty or misinterpreted views, which in turn will avoid lengthy debates and disputes about what is said, what is intended and what it means.

Completely agree, and that is why I think we have exhausted the topic, especially since he has acknowledged the mistake, and UMD's policy of no name change has become concrete. The issue has been rectified, let's move on...

[Vangelovski]

UMD's policy of no name change has become concrete. The issue has been rectified, let's move on...

Until UMD rejects the Interim Accord, its policy is just as wishy washy as it always has been regarding the name. That is the difference between paying lip service to freedom and actually supporting freedom in a practical way.

[Buktop]

Until UMD rejects the Interim Accord, its policy is just as wishy washy as it always has been regarding the name. That is the difference between paying lip service to freedom and actually supporting freedom in a practical way.

practical in your way, we all agree the Interim accord is a bad thing, we all agree that the government should declare it void, but is there perhaps a way to use this agreement against our oppressors? This is the difference between you and me, because in reality there is no chance the current government will withdraw from the Interim accord, why not try to find a way to use it to hurt Greece and those that would usurp the rights and sovereignty of Macedonia and Macedonians until such a time when we could safely assume our rights, as well as preserve them?

[makedonche]

Completely agree, and that is why I think we have exhausted the topic, especially since he has acknowledged the mistake, and UMD's policy of no name change has become concrete. The issue has been rectified, let's move on...

The topic is by no means exhausted and needs to be further pursued until agreement is reached at how we deal with these types of mistakes. The issue hasn't been rectified at all, evidence of that is the indefensible fact that forgiveness is not in existence.

[julie]

Buktop how can the Interim Accord benefit Macedonia? To hurt Greece? And enable the soveriegnty of Macedonia and Macedonians?

[Vangelovski]

practical in your way, we all agree the Interim accord is a bad thing, we all agree that the government should declare it void, but is there perhaps a way to use this agreement against our oppressors? This is the difference between you and me, because in reality there is no chance the current government will withdraw from the Interim accord, why not try to find a way to use it to hurt Greece and those that would usurp the rights and sovereignty of Macedonia and Macedonians until such a time when we could safely assume our rights, as well as preserve them?

Buktop,

This is your real view - the "reality" of the Interim Accord - your argument that we cannot exercise our freedom now, but have to wait for some 'distant and vague future' that just never comes.

Your supposed "support" for freedom is nothing but a facade, a one-liner that you throw out before you come back to defending our oppressors and the tools that they use to oppress us.

You are UMD at heart and your vision of Macedonia is one of a vassel state serving foreign masters.

You would never wrap yourself in the morally and intellectually corrupt arguments you do if you were using your REAL name, rather you hide behind this FAKE internet personality and try to convince the Macedonian people to accept defeat, to accept the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement as "reality" and to accept the rule of foreign interests.

For all we know, you are an UDBa style lackey, trying to prop up an ideologically flawed organisation that is working AGAINST the Macedonian cause.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Meto Koloski's treacherous statements will be summarised this afternoon in a separate post, because the Macedonians are tired of trying to search through forums and (re)highlighting his stupidity to his supporters. This way, there will be an easy reference point, which won't allow for smoke to be thrown up by UMD apologists who like to raise old issues again like they were never discussed in the first place.