United Macedonia Diaspora

[Buktop]

Buktop,

This is more UMD style gloss that you're trying to shine on.
It has nothing to do with approach - we have a different vision. The substance of our disagreements is about our visions for the future and about our understanding of what a Macedonian is/should be.

My vision is a free, sovereign independent Macedonia that is economically self sufficient, respects the rights of it's citizens, and act's as an extension of the will of the people, not only in defending their rights and lives, but in bettering them also.

What's your vision?

[Buktop]

And again, the 'impartial' Buktop is there, like every single other time, to defend the interests and image of the UMD.

I said you shouldn't waste your time attacking them or their supporters, and use it to be productive, constructive and proactive.

[Vangelovski]

My vision is a free, sovereign independent Macedonia that is economically self sufficient, respects the rights of it's citizens, and act's as an extension of the will of the people, not only in defending their rights and lives, but in bettering them also.

What's your vision?

You can keep applying the shine, but your views are more than obvious in the hundreds of posts you have written on here and Maknews.

[Buktop]

You can keep applying the shine, but your views are more than obvious in the hundreds of posts you have written on here and Maknews.

And how have my hundreds of posts and the one I made above differ?

By the way, what is your view for Macedonia?

[Soldier of Macedon]

You are welcome to do it, just saying that maybe you should use your time a little more wisely.

My time is spent wisely, just not according to your (and the UMD's) definition of 'wisdom'.

I don't really know the Uzicko........

Don't beat yourself up about it, I am sure Meto can teach you some more about the uzicko during the next 'patriotic' Macedonian event held by the UMD.

It was a suggestion SoM, no need to get your panties in a twist.

A suggestion prompted by petty reaction, not out of genuine sentiment or concern. The UMD are the people who claim to represent the Macedonian Diaspora, and they are asking people on internet websites to write letters to the government instead? What the hell are they there for? Pitiful.

Perhaps you could share with me some of those initiatives so maybe I could have an idea?

When these initiatives reach a more mature development (some of which will be very soon), everybody will be made aware. Suffice to say, the MTO will not be operated by a bunch of opportunists, the ignorant, or the treacherous, like the UMD appear to be. Furthermore, we will remain transparent, open to criticism, and welcoming of ideas from others, responsible and prepared to be held accountable for our actions and ammend accordingly, respect Macedonian sensibilities and have the betterment of Macedonia and the Macedonian people always as the primary focus.

Come now SoM, I have been consistent since back at Maknews, and I have done nothing which would suggest that I lack integrity.

I didn't say you lack integrity, I said you don't know about what it is to have integrity and consistency - in the context of an organisation.

I acknowledged what was said in ZMR, I also acknowledged that it should not have been said, and then I acknowledged that Meto apologized for it. What don't you get about that?

Where did he apologise for it? Are you going to start this whole charade again? That other UMD member, Mitreski I think, he was the one who apologised for it, on behalf of Meto, after which Meto seems to have distanced himself from the former's comment.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I said you shouldn't waste your time attacking them or their supporters, and use it to be productive, constructive and proactive.

Attacking an organisation that harbours views that are detrimental to the Macedonian Cause is being proactive. Allowing them to do what they do in silence, or defending their views because of some warped allegiance, is counter-productive.

The only thing the UMD are trying to construct is Meto Koloski's career.

[Vangelovski]

And how have my hundreds of posts and the one I made above differ?

By the way, what is your view for Macedonia?

Buktop,

I'm not going to go through all your posts, like I did on the other thread where you contradicted yourself so many times that I lost count, because it will be completely lost on you.

However, if you are going to claim that your vision for Macedonia is 'freedom' (a concept you have only provided lip-service to and actually opposed in substance), then maybe you can provide us with what that "freedom" might look like...according to you.

[julie]

They're going to (or not now) argue over a technicality, as if people here aren't already aware of the bullshit involved.

And Pelister mate, we get it. You hate the UMD, the negotiations are wrong, and they're traitors. It's the same post over and over again.

Here's what I'm seeing here:

Admins ask UMD to abide to certain rules.
UMD acts as if nothing is wrong and publishes bullshit announcement.
Vangelovski picks up on a technical error or propaganda element and uses it to beat the UMD with it.
Buktop argues the technicality with a straight face.
40 pages of said argument that forgets about the original issue and becomes what it really is, an example of personal animosity.
Other people chime in accusing various people of various disloyalties.
I come in with smartarse comments.
Pelister knocks out his standard hatred of UMD.
Julie declares she's Macedonian and the dushmani can die.
Jankovska tells us we don't relate to the Macedonians of RoM and their living conditions.
Prolet tells us that Grujo is awesome and asks for opinions on unrelated matters.
Onur tells us how the Turks do things.
Spartan disputes this.
The thread gets exhausted, only to be repeated elsewhere later.


Now, imagine outsiders reading all this crap.

thank you will take that as a compliment sf. actually it gave me a good laugh
just got out of my second home, 3 days off the net and progress

[Buktop]

My time is spent wisely, just not according to your (and the UMD's) definition of 'wisdom'.

Just offering suggestions at a more constructive option. Instead of calling UMD and their supporters imbeciles or jokers, why not target the source of your discontent i.e. Gruevski & Co.

A suggestion prompted by petty reaction, not out of genuine sentiment or concern. The UMD are the people who claim to represent the Macedonian Diaspora, and they are asking people on internet websites to write letters to the government instead? What the hell are they there for? Pitiful.

A suggestion prompted by a reaction to your offensive statement here

Kukuraiko, here's an 'novel' idea for you, don't give a free pass to those that agree with and support the stupid decisions our governments have made, lest you start looking as they do, opportunistic fools that are prepared to concede anything.

Don't you UMD supporters have any self-respect as Macedonians?

my response was warranted, I simply tried to suggest a more constructive way to use your time rather than constantly denigrating other Macedonians.

As for asking you to write letters, is that too much to ask?

When these initiatives reach a more mature development (some of which will be very soon), everybody will be made aware. Suffice to say, the MTO will not be operated by a bunch of opportunists, the ignorant, or the treacherous, like the UMD appear to be. Furthermore, we will remain transparent, open to criticism, and welcoming of ideas from others, responsible and prepared to be held accountable for our actions and ammend accordingly, respect Macedonian sensibilities and have the betterment of Macedonia and the Macedonian people always as the primary focus.

Great, can't wait to see it.

I didn't say you lack integrity, I said you don't know about what it is to have integrity and consistency - in the context of an organisation.

I most certainly do, and my experience can attest to that.

Where did he apologise for it? Are you going to start this whole charade again? That other UMD member, Mitreski I think, he was the one who apologised for it, on behalf of Meto, after which Meto seems to have distanced himself from the former's comment.

YouTube - MTO UMD 1 5:39 seconds, he admits it was a mistake and that he should not have said it, that counts as an apology.

We have discussed the UMD ad nauseum, you know my position, I know you have seen these recordings, and all the information is at your disposal, I am not trying to get you to change your opinion or to love UMD, more effort should be put into progress and less time on criticizing issues that have already been rectified.

Attacking an organisation that harbours views that are detrimental to the Macedonian Cause is being proactive. Allowing them to do what they do in silence, or defending their views because of some warped allegiance, is counter-productive.

The only thing the UMD are trying to construct is Meto Koloski's career.

Let's say hypothetically you are right, and UMD is just doing the bidding of the Macedonian government, rather than aiming to destroy the whole organization, wouldn't it make sense to change the position of the government killing 2 birds with one stone?

[Buktop]

Buktop,

I'm not going to go through all your posts, like I did on the other thread where you contradicted yourself so many times that I lost count, because it will be completely lost on you.

However, if you are going to claim that your vision for Macedonia is 'freedom' (a concept you have only provided lip-service to and actually opposed in substance), then maybe you can provide us with what that "freedom" might look like...according to you.

I guess you didnt read my reply to that post.

I already gave you my view, I asked for yours, why can you never answer any questions Vangelovski?

[makedonche]

Quote:

"5:39 seconds, he admits it was a mistake and that he should not have said it, that counts as an apology."

Buktop
It appears to me that this is your opinion as to what "counts" as an apology. Would you concede that it may not be a common view or majority view or even a "laymans" view?

[Buktop]

Quote:

"5:39 seconds, he admits it was a mistake and that he should not have said it, that counts as an apology."

Buktop
It appears to me that this is your opinion as to what "counts" as an apology. Would you concede that it may not be a common view or majority view or even a "laymans" view?

I concede that many here do not view it as an apology and that is fine, whether or not it is or isn't doesn't bother me, what is important is that he recognized that it was a mistake, admitted it, and has since rectified it. If that is not progress I don't know what is.

[Vangelovski]

I guess you didnt read my reply to that post.

I already gave you my view, I asked for yours, why can you never answer any questions Vangelovski?

If my view is not obvious to you from my own posts, me summing it up for you in a sentance won't help you much.

[Mastika]

Don't beat yourself up about it, I am sure Meto can teach you some more about the uzicko during the next 'patriotic' Macedonian event held by the UMD.

I have not seen the video of the dancing so I cannot judge nor pass comment on it. However I am free to ask whether or not Meto was dancing the Sitno oro and not the Uzicko kolo? Can someone who has seen the video please confirm/deny this.

Also as a sidenote here is George Papandreou dancing Makedonsko oro, surely he doesn't secretly feel himself to be an ethnic Macedonian?

YouTube - George Papandreou at Macedonian folk dance

ps. is this the longest thread on the forum? 151 pages surely must be a record.

[Mikail]

Ok.... here we go round the mulberry bush.... So Meto said he made a mistake at 5:39. If it wasn't recorded and put up for all to see would any one outside that meeting have known. If Julie or RTG came here and said,

"Meto admitted to making a mistake"

Would you have taken that at face value? Or would you have spent 40 pages asking for evidence?

Time to give up the charade here and come clean. Buktop, are you really Meto? Or are you in his secretary and you merely write what he dictates?