United Macedonia Diaspora

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  • Piperka
    Junior Member
    • Feb 2010
    • 33

    Originally posted by Prolet View Post
    Risto, I know you mentioned Vladimir Acev before, what did you mean by that?

    Piperka, You come from USA whats the current feeling like at MPO? How do they cooperate with the other Macedonian Organizations? Do they have a big influence of the Senators there??

    Also whats the realistic figure of Macedonians in USA??
    The MPO promotes and cultivates a Bulgarianized version of what they think Macedonians are. Anyone familiar with the history of Macedonian-Americans should know this and should know better than to work with them as an organization.

    Like I mentioned in my previous post, the majority of Macedonian-Americans are members of the Macedonian Orthodox Churches in their respective communities. These churches all fall under the American-Canadian Macedonian Orthodox Diocese (ACMOD). There are some MPO members that are members of both our churches and the MPO, but most MPO members are not members of our churches, but rather attend Orthodox churches that fall under the Orthodox Church of America, which also includes a Bulgarian Diocese. Fort Wayne, Indiana is home to MPO headquarters and to St. Nicholas Orthodox Church, which is under the Bulgarian Diocese of the OCA and where many MPO members call home. Many other churches attended by MPO members fall under the Bulgarian Diocese of the OCA as well. The ACMOD may have flaws, but it is still the leading representative of the majority of the Macedonians in America.

    It is also true that some MPO members who have a strong Macedonian conscience have helped in building and supporting our churches and are involved in the Macedonian communities. ... but the MPO, as a national organization, has not.

    The majority of MPO members are Americanized. One only has to look at their website to see what I mean. Some of my Macedonian friends who have attended their events found them to be very strange, Americanized, and not very Macedonian. If you speak to Macedonians who were in the US in the 60s and 70s, they'll tell you of the very Bulgarian nature of their conventions and dances - this is one of the reasons that led to the large amount of MOC churches being built in the USA in the 60s after the MOC declared autonomy from the SOC in 1959. This is also the reason why these churches have become cultural/community centers for the Macedonians in America. In my opinion, they saved the language, traditions, folklore, connection to Macedonia, and the religion. The rise of the ACMOD also led to the death of the MPO's power in the United States. Their membership has been dwindling and becoming more Americanized year after year....

    What the MPO does have is political connections and old wealth. In my eyes though, that wealth and those connections will do the Macedonian cause no good when they have published so many documents that are anti-Macedonian. Documents that claim we are Bulgarian under the name "Macedonian" Patriotic Organization are very disturbing to read... especially when you are at your university library and you come across one that has been donated by the MPO. The fact is, even if they changed right now and completely turned into a Macedonian organization, it is far too late. They can't erase their past and the anti-Macedonian speech, actions, and writings they have been spewing for the last 100 years.

    There was never a need to even try and get them to come over to the Macedonian side and see the light. They have a very small population of members and a strong Bulgarian element that is still strong and thriving. The only reason that I can think of why anyone would want to work with them is to receive money and connections from them. How does that help the Macedonian cause?? It doesn't. It only helps your own personal cause and at such a large scale it's very very very detrimental to the Macedonian cause.

    Representatives of the UMD - please do not claim you were hopeful that they would change and you didn't know it would come to this because if that is the case you should not be leading an organization that represents the Macedonian-American community. If you don't know the history of your own part of the diaspora, then you have no business leading any of us.....someone needs to lead you.

    Often times I wonder why members of the government of the Republic of Macedonia have attended their events and served as speakers at their conventions. Do they not care? Do they also agree with what the MPO promotes???

    As far as how many Macedonians live in the USA....I don't think the census numbers for 2000 for Macedonian-Americans are accurate (38,051 Macedonians). The American Community Survey estimates our population to be 50,719. This year's census may also not accurately reflect our population because Macedonians will have to write in Macedonian next to Other Race. I imagine many will be confused and only check off White. The USA puts more emphasis on Race rather than Ethnicity like I've noticed is done in Australia. Ethnicity questions in the USA are now limited to responding with if you are Hispanic or non-Hispanic. The major hubs of our community are Detroit, Indiana/Chicago, Ohio, New York state, New Jersey, and LA/Florida/Arizona/Other areas. I think it would be safe to say that we have at least 100,000 Macedonians in the USA.

    Comment

    • Prolet
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 5241

      Vangelovski, He asked for your opinion because you are a well education person remember?
      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

      Comment

      • maslinka
        Junior Member
        • Feb 2010
        • 19

        Originally posted by Rogi View Post
        I'd strongly urge you to reconsider what you've written here and the argument you are making.

        What you're effectively saying is that Macedonians will be declaring as Macedonians either way, regardless of what anyone says.

        In which case, what is the point and value of the census project, and in what way is this 'added work', when, as implied, regardless of the efforts, Macedonians will declare as Macedonians?

        You're too easily, or perhaps naively dismissing the insidious nature of the MPO and the Bulgarian attempts at the appropriation of the Macedonian identity; if it were so easily dismissed and so irrelevant, we would not have such a huge number of Bugaromani and Grkomani among our people.

        In this situation, the MPO had been given a great deal of legitimacy as a 'Macedonian organisation' by including them in a coalition of Macedonian organisations. What eventuated was a clear 'Trojan Horse' scenario.

        As for the harm done, it could be a great harm, when if only one Macedonian is duped by the insidious nature of the MPO and allowed by the legitimacy given to the MPO with their inclusion.

        Or the harm done may be that Macedonians receiving letters addressed to them personally, informing them to declare as Bulgarians, could offend a great deal of Macedonians.

        Or there may not be any harm at all, yet nonetheless the notion that an (now clearly evident to all, it if were not before) organisation with clearly anti-Macedonian positions and such an insidious nature, could be given trust by other Macedonian organisations and legitimised by its' inclusion in a coalition (alliance) indicates the very weak, nor non-existent, checks and bounds to prevent such potentially huge risks to the Macedonian cause.

        It then also beckons the question of influence and what measures exist to prevent Macedonian organisations from being influenced against the Macedonian cause, in the same insidious manner, for which this particular case study serves as an example.
        Rogi, honestly I can't believe how this has played out.

        You think that before making ANY comment re: the MPO that the UMD would have asked the question of the MPO "how will your board recommend that MPO members identify themselves in the census?"

        Am I missing something here? Was this not the first discussion had??

        They say vision is 20/20 in hindsight, but all the UMD had to do before considering whether to invite the MPO into their campaign was look at the MPO website and look at the "Bulgarian" literature they are happy to peddle.



        I'm honestly astounded by the STUPIDITY on the UMD on this issue.
        Someone please tell me that there were some people on the UMD board that though this was a bad idea???

        As for Mitreski, well I think your post Rogi should be a warning to him that his 'spin' on this matter is just a big pile of We all see it for what it is.

        Comment

        • Prolet
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2009
          • 5241

          Piperka, Spolaj Ti for the feedback

          Im guessing that Antonio Miloshoski has attended their events, he usually travels to America quite often.
          МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

          Comment

          • Prolet
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2009
            • 5241

            Phoenix, Ordan Andreevski heads the UMD in Australia, dont you trust him? I agree with you that we need to be skeptical here and i dont want something done here with the Opashka and you are mistaking for thinking that this will be a lone mission by the UMD.

            Phoenix, I strongly advise you to read Professor Mile Terzioski's article in the AMW, he does mention AMHRC and he strongly encourages for these two organizations to work together. He has called Metodija's visit to Australia a success, not only that he calls for our people in Australia to support the UMD.

            Here is the direct quote:
            Концептот на ОМД е одличен и тој МОРА да биде подржан од Македонската заедница во Австралија.
            Please read his 10 point plan and tell me what you think of this.

            МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

            Comment

            • osiris
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 1969

              i think we have discussed the um enough, lets see what they will do.

              prolet i think you should join umd definitely.

              Comment

              • Prolet
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2009
                • 5241

                Osiris, Spolaj Ti for the kind words

                How did you like Professor Mile Terzioski's 10 point plan?
                МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                Comment

                • Phoenix
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 4671

                  Originally posted by amitreski
                  Igor

                  I understand what you are saying. But on the other hand, we called their bluff. They want to be a Macedonian organization, so we said sure, here are the terms and show that you are a Macedonian organization. The results speak for themselves. History will remember why they were removed from the coalition. Their membership should also ask questions.
                  Excuses, excuses, excuses...

                  When will one of you silly little men put up your hand and say that you made a mistake...instead you're trying to cover your tracks by pretending this was a well thought out strategy...

                  amitrevski, do you know this guy posting as 'zoomer'...is he a senior figure in UMD Canada...???

                  Comment

                  • Phoenix
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 4671

                    Originally posted by Prolet View Post
                    Osiris, Spolaj Ti for the kind words

                    How did you like Professor Mile Terzioski's 10 point plan?
                    Prolet, was there more than 20 people at the UMD dinner at Sheldon Receptions last Saturday...?

                    Comment

                    • osiris
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 1969

                      prolet i am hoping when you join you are a positive influence on them because they sure as hell need it

                      Comment

                      • Prolet
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 5241

                        Phoenix, Harry Jenkins and Bill Shorten were there remember? I wasnt at the Dinner, apparently it was really good.

                        на многу успешната свечена вечера која се одржа во прекрасниот амбиент на најновииот дел на Sheldon Receptions.
                        "Како и во другите градови низ Австралија, интересот на заедницата во Мелбурн е многу голем, бидејќи сите сакаат да видат брз напредок во статусот на Македонската заедница во Австралија и интензивно продлабочување и проширување на билатерлните односи меѓу Австралија и Република Македонија" изјави Колоски.
                        Phoenix, According to this report it went down quite well, i would say over 100 people rocked up easily, im taking a punt here judging by all the people in the oro.

                        Now what do you think about Mile Terzioski's 10 point plan?
                        МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                        Comment

                        • Prolet
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2009
                          • 5241

                          Originally posted by osiris View Post
                          prolet i am hoping when you join you are a positive influence on them because they sure as hell need it
                          Osiris, Its always good to be positive mate

                          Mile Terzioski clearly states that we dont have alot of time to waste, the UMD and AMHRC must work together and i agree with him. Im been stating this for a long time now and im glad somebody agrees with me.
                          МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                          Comment

                          • Phoenix
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 4671

                            Originally posted by Prolet View Post
                            Osiris, Its always good to be positive mate

                            Mile Terzioski clearly states that we dont have alot of time to waste, the UMD and AMHRC must work together and i agree with him. Im been stating this for a long time now and im glad somebody agrees with me.
                            I'm not sure what Mile was thinking when he suggested in point #1 that UMD are a "think tank"...???

                            I quickly lost interest after that Prolet.

                            C'mon mate, UMD are not capable of thinking on anyones behalf...

                            Comment

                            • Prolet
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 5241

                              Phoenix, Be patient it gets better and better. Surly you looked at the rest.

                              He gives AMHRC a big compliment.

                              Phoenix, Professor Mile Terzioski is a respectable figure, surly his opinion should be valued when it comes to talking about the Macedonian Question.
                              МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                              Comment

                              • Prolet
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2009
                                • 5241

                                Phoenix, Here's a bit more information about the UMD Dinner which was held at Sheldon Reception.

                                Во саботата на 20 февруари се одржа свечената вечера во Sheldon Reception на која беа поканети сите македонски семејства и организации. За време на свечената вецера, Harry Jenkins MP имаше краток говор за неговата посета на Република Македониија во декември 2009, кога се уверил дека Македонија има направено голем напредок на многу значајни полиња отркако е независна држава. На крајот на вечерта г Jenkins пријатно ги изненади сите кога успешно изигра едно убаво македонско оро заедно со Колоски и сите други гости. Bill Shorten, MP, имаше одличен говор околу придонесот на македонската заедница во Австралија во последниве 100 години. Shorten спомна дека тој има оформено одлично мислење за Македонците во Австралиа уште кога бил лидер во еден индустриски Синдикат.
                                МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                                Comment

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