United Macedonia Diaspora

[osiris]

footage of what some one bragging and taking credit for everything real and imagined.

that is arguably the most preposterous load of shit i have ever heard anyone say.

macedonian organisations have been working their butts off for 50 years to develop a relationship with australian politicians and you now reckon meto has done with a phone call and a letter.

give me a break.

[Prolet]

Osiris, Its different there the Macedonians in North America are 2nd generation onwards, Did you hear when George Lebamov said he goes into any office he wants in Michigan.

Its not so much a phone call they visit them quite often from what i been told, they got alot of mates there, it will change too.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Prolet,

Osiris has a point. And you should know better than to parrot what somebody has said without corroborating it. Or maybe, you just don't know any better.

I told you all last time, and I will re-iterate, until we can get on the same page and come to an agreement on key points, direction, means, etc, then unity is useless. Take for example the apparent 'unity' between the UMD and MPO, and how that has eventuated, and how Macedonians are being sent letters to declare as something other than Macedonians. This has had a negative effect for the Macedonian Diaspora and the Macedonian people in general.

We all want unity, make no mistake about it, but it has to be based on mutual respect and trust, and built upon solid foundations. I find it hard to unite with a person or group that refuses to acknowledge past errors or that has an ideology not aligned with the Macedonian Cause, as specified here at the Macedonian Truth Organisation. That is not me being biased in favour of the organisation that I represent, because we here at the MTO are open to criticism where it concerns our definition of the Macedonian Cause and encourage input from as many people as possible. That, is a way towards unity.

Therefore, the next time one of you push this issue prematurely, have a good think about some of the prerequisites that we must have prior to establishing and cementing our unity as Macedonians.

[Pelister]

I think that one of the problems is the fact that you and few others have based their opinion on few issues that have been spinned and blown out of proportions. You should based your opinion on the facts, the entire facts. How many of you have followed UMD through the years to see everything that the organization has done. We get few people like Pelister who are frustrated with the current situaiton, past mistakes by the macedonian government and they hit it out at UMD. Ако не можеш по коњот, уди по самарот. And I think few on this board have fallen into that trap. Now also remember that there are Macedonian organization trying to discredit UMD for their benefit, which if very wrong!

The reality is that UMD is frustrated with the situation we are in, and we are doing everything we can to get ourselves out of. Sometimes quietly, sometimes diplomatically, sometimes strategically. Our actions can not satisfy everybody's taste, but the growing support for our organization has demonstrated that we are doing something right.

What is UMD? Not patriotic enough? I posted my op-ed piece.

Here are 3 advertisement that UMD paid to be published in the 3 daily newspapers in 2008, right before Bucharest to remind the president, prime minister and everybody else that it is their constitutional responsibility to defend our sovereign name.

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/314/51/

UMD Works to Protect Macedonia's Name PDF
Wednesday, 26 March 2008

WASHINGTON, D.C. - March 26, 2008 - On March 25, 2008, the United Macedonian Diaspora took out advertisements in three of Macedonia’s largest daily newspapers, Dnevnik, Utrinski Vesnik, and Vecer stressing that the Macedonian Diaspora is against any changes to Macedonia’s constitutional name. The advertisements titled “NATO Membership Might Have a Price, but the Macedonian Name and Identity Do Not” reminded the President and the Prime Minister of their constitutional duty to uphold Macedonia’s constitutional name.

Furthermore, UMD iterated that the Macedonian Diaspora is Macedonia’s biggest partner and will continue to support and invest in Macedonia’s future, regardless of Macedonia’s NATO membership. Over 80,000 people worldwide who adamantly reject any name changes have signed UMD’s petition against a name change for the Republic of Macedonia, and a recent poll conducted by a think tank in Skopje indicated that over 95% of the Macedonians are against a name change as the price for NATO membership. To read UMD's petition, click HERE .

Our ancestors fought and died for a free, independent, and sovereign Macedonian State. Macedonia’s government must not allow Greece to blackmail Macedonia into a name change name that will have a negative impact on Macedonian identity, and Macedonia’s centuries-old history. The name of Macedonia for international use is Republic of Macedonia and should not be changed.

Macedonia has compromised enough with Greece to resolve this imposed “name dispute.” Greece has simply ignored all of Macedonia’s concessions. If Greece violates the provisions in the 1995 Interim Accord between the two nations by vetoing Macedonia’s NATO membership, then Macedonia should react and abandon these negotiation talks.

Macedonia will continue its successful transition to a multi-ethnic democracy regardless of whether it joins NATO. It is NATO and the region, not the Republic of Macedonia, which will suffer the brunt of Greece’s anti-Macedonian fanaticism as NATO’s interests, past efforts, expansion, and prestige in the region will be irreparably damaged by a Greek veto of Macedonia’s NATO membership.

The advertisements (in Macedonian) can be seen by clicking on the following links:

http://umdiaspora.org/images/dnevnikomdreklama.pdf

http://umdiaspora.org/images/veceromdreklama.pdf

http://umdiaspora.org/images/utrinskiomdreklama.pdf

You see here is part of the UMD problem.

If Greece violates the provisions in the 1995 Interim Accord between the two nations by vetoing Macedonia’s NATO membership, then Macedonia should react and abandon these negotiation talks.

Greece violating the Interim Accord is not a valid reason why we should end the negotiations (and no serious politician is going to buy that rubbish), although end them we should. The Greek violation of this Accord is a valid reason to withdraw from the obligations the Accord IMPOSES on us.[1]

I can't help but bring back to light a contradictory statement made by UMD. This reminds me of the press release isused by UMD which called for a "suspension" to the talks on the basis that Greece was not serious about finding a solution, suggesting that UMD were serious about a compromise solution, and that the Macedonian government were in fact too.

There are deeply moral, and there are deeply legal and historical reasons why we should decry/reject the terms that Greece (and the E.U and NATO) has put to us.

[Pelister]

Things have gone well beyond two or three threads criticizing the UMD.

3 active Threads? Possibly 4? That is hardly "excessive" or "obsessive".

Criticisms of the UMD have taken up so much discussion time and space that an outsider might be excused for thinking the organization is a de facto Government of Macedonia.

Who's discussion time? Mine, Yours? Your free to add to any one of the HUNDREDS of threads here. No one is obliged to respond to a thread criticizing UMD, I would guess in the same way that visitors are not obliged to respond to threads posted by UMD which are designed to publicize their positives.

Threads with very specific policy discussion topics are being hijacked by repetitive criticisms of UMD that are only remotely related to the topic, if at all.

Yes, but MANY threads usually include micro discussions of other things.

While I agree with you that we should stick to the topic of a thread as much as possible, you highlighting this instance specifically in relation to criticism of UMD (which by the way cannot be confined to a single topic or subject given the multi-faceted nature of its portfolio and intrusions), ignores the hundreds of other diversions in other threads we engage in on a day to day basis.

I wonder how many of the fiery UMD critics realize that they might actually be doing the leadership of that organization a service, by making it appear as a victim of armchair warriors and the Tall Poppy Syndrome?

Really? The quest to silence criticism takes on new dimensions every month. I wasn't not allowed a supplemtary question at a UMD conference a few weeks ago? Was it because I had quoted Meto calling for a name change? Is this public forum to be censored to the strictures of one person's opinion?

The biggest problem I see with the direction that UMD criticisms and responses to such criticisms are taking is the increasingly personal and offensive tone. In my experience, when policy disagreements among community activists and commentators are allowed to turn into personal animosity, the personal animosity tends to take precedence over and often outlive the policy disagreements. The obvious problem there is that when the adversaries eventually bridge the policy gap, they are unable to start working together in shared policy directions because of the ongoing personal animosity.

Have you been convinced that UMD have changed their policy? Can you be clear about what their policy was, before it supposedly changed (assuming it has)?

[osiris]

americans are ahead of us, you must be joking and if meto is any indication of their progress i shudder for our future. i was one of the few who smelt a rat when georgievski came along as a voivoda a new gotse, i am not saying meto is a rat, but he is a slcik madison avenue style politico all smoke and mirrors very little political understanding and an american first and macedonian second. prolet why dont you come to the amhrc dinner, when you can see a real macedonian organisation at work, or do you like disney land style politics.

[osiris]

alexandrov you are wrong on this, they are the ones who have jerked off too many times about how competent and effective they are and how much wonderful work they have done, so far i cant see any great achievments.

and i am still wondering where they get the money to open offices.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Join us for a dinner at Sheldon Reception in Sunshine Saturday, February 20, 2010. MP Harry Jenkins, MP Brendan O'Connor, and MP Bill Shorten will be in attendance and will give remarks on Australian-Macedonian bilateral relations. Details in the flyer above.

[UMDiaspora.org]

We do not know why this was un-sticky'ed however, may we get it to be a sticky again given that the tour is not finished yet.

[Prolet]

SOM, Meto answered the question about MPO, like i mentioned earlier people were impressed some are skeptical time will tell in the end. Let them do their work, they are young lads and there will be mistakes however the most important thing is to support eachother.

Osiris, Goce Delcev didnt become leader over night, he gained peoples trust and support. Meto is not the prime minister of Macedonia, Ljubco was different he showed his true face and we now know what he is really like. The UMD have been up and down, they have positives and negatives on their side, thats what happens in every organization however we need to be positive not just post constant attacks on others.

[osiris]

its easy to see what lupcho is all about now but prolet but how did you feel about lupcho when he was visiting did you think we should

Let them do their work, they are young lads and there will be mistakes however the most important thing is to support eachother.

its true they are different one was pro bulgarian meto is pro american.

[Soldier of Macedon]

SOM, Meto answered the question about MPO

Where and when did he answer them? Do you have his answers? Or have I just wasted another 30 seconds of my life asking a question that will go unanswered?

You know Prolet, sit long enough on the fence and you will eventually fall.

[Soldier of Macedon]

its easy to see what lupcho is all about now but prolet but how did you feel about lupcho when he was visiting did you think we should

its true they are different one was pro bulgarian meto is pro american.

That's the problem Osiris, some people (like Prolet, Buktop, Volk and co.) believe that the 'mistakes' that the UMD have made will inflict minimum negative results on the Macedonian Diaspora. The ignorant masses, seeing some 'young lads' making waves, immediately think that all our support should be thrown behind them without first verifying ideological stances and their pertinent issues that clearly have not been resolved.

The danger in all of this? Decent and patriotic Macedonians don't know the full truth, and some may come to accept that, well, "if we must change our name then let us choose what we like". The Macedonian Diaspora were/are(?) being groomed by the UMD for the possibility of a name change, and instead of reinforcing the message of strength, self-respect, integrity and dignity, the UMD are proposing 'not so bad' options like a 'democratic' prefix, which, if we don't accept, will leave us in an eternal limbo. Poor Macedonians.......

Yet their press releases now claim they are against any name change, when before the Macedonians living in poverty were used as leverage for capitulation by some UMD joker, like we are incapable of making efforts to stand on our own feet and tell those who oppose us, that NO, we will not agree to such terms.

I don't think so. Macedonians are stronger than that, and no self-respecting person would ever allow a change to something that is fundamentally apart of themselves and their heritage.

I will live and die as a Macedonian, even if it means fighting for what I believe in right till the end. At least I won't look back in 50 years and be ashamed of myself. I wonder, had Meto's triple-name formula transpired, would he look back in 50 years and be proud, or ashamed?

[Soldier of Macedon]

I am asuming the Melbourne meeting is still on tomorrow, Any one from MTO attending?

Couldn't make it to Preston, and only confirmed if I was going last minute for Footscray. Sorry mate, we will all catch up at the AMHRC dinner though, one not to be missed.

[Soldier of Macedon]

We do not know why this was un-sticky'ed however, may we get it to be a sticky again given that the tour is not finished yet.

Don't know why that happened, I have made it a sticky again.