United Macedonia Diaspora

[gore na nitche]

Makedontsi pak sa yadate za nishto.

moite mudina sa pogolemi ot tfoite

Makedontsi vo Australia sa nai patrioti ama nai budali sa.

Hello all
love the forum

[El Bre]

Thanks guys, now I understand the rationale. It's not about the prefix / suffix, it's about drawing a line in the sand and saying enough is enough. It works for me.

[gore na nitche]

Jas som ot Australia

[Bill77]

gore...... shto drugo imash da se pofalish?????

[gore na nitche]

gore...... shto drugo imash da se pofalish?????

Koi sa fale??

[Bill77]

Koi sa fale??

dali imash neshto drugo da kazish? nie se raspravame, dali vikame mnogu i te razbudivne shto vleguvash naluten i vikash deka budali sne.

Do you have anything constructive or explain why you think budali sne i mislime deka golemi madlaci imame.

[Soldier of Macedon]

United states policy is primarily shaped by the president, initiatives are made on his say so. He has a board of advisers, but ultimately he has the final say as to what direction his government takes.

You are implying that Obama has more executive control over the US administration than Meto has over the UMD, but the facts simply don't support such an assertion. You are implying that what Meto says himself (as the president) does not equate to the policy of the UMD. You don't honestly believe that, do you? You don't find anything wrong with that picture?

I personally do not support a name change, and I agreed with you that the idea was not something that I could support either, I am still of that same opinion, but that is not to say that Meto cannot have his own opinion, and his own reasoning for reaching that opinion.

You are basically giving Meto a licence to say and do whatever he feels, and that the UMD should be immune from criticism as a result. The president of the UMD calls for a 'democratic' prefix, but this is not allowed to be tied into the official policy of the UMD, is that it? That doesn't strike you as odd? Can you tell me where integrity and consistency fit into all of this? Sorry mate, no way, I can't accept your suggestion. If Meto can't stop saying the wrong thing, then for the sake of his organisation he should either step down or shut up.

I think the earlier comparison I made with Obama and Biden is more than valid, you can't have a leader saying one thing and his organisation claiming another, and not be questioned about your integrity. Can you show me another example of something like this where the population or membership agree with what you are saying, namely, that they accept the president of their group makes statements that apparently contradict the group's policies and are not in synch with the population or membership? A few parallels would strengthen your argument somewhat.

[Prolet]

Well Said Jankovska,

The people and the common soldiers who gave their lives, who were betrayed people like Boskoski,Trajkovski and Buckovski. They should be honored and respected

[Rogi]

I say this in general, and in principle, and I'm sure all agree:

Anyone is entitled to their own personal opinion.

However, you must consider in what capacity any statement is made. Is it as a representative of an organisation, is it in the name of the organisation, is it at an event of and/or for the organisation, is it to people questioning the organisation, or is it in a personal private conversation.

Secondly, the personal opinion of the head does reflect back on the organisation itself in that, it beckons the question why an organisation would keep at its' head someone so diametrically opposed to its' policy, if indeed there is such a disparity. So any organisation is automatically implicated by the personal or otherwise statements and views of its' head.

[Mikail]

Well said Maslinka.

I hope we're al wrong in assuming UMD has not made contact with AMHRC and is out to steal the limelight.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Jas som ot Australia

Dobrodoide.

There were better ways to make an entry mate, perhaps next time you should read through the recent topics to get an understanding of the situation and surrounding circumstances and sentiment. Making an entrance in that manner lacks maturity, I trust, among madinata and your other natural gifts, you also possess some logic and intelligence. Makedoncite od tvojot krai se poznati i za toa.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Actually, UMD has made numerous contacts with AMHRC through e-mail over the last few days over this matter. The journalist at the Advertiser was made aware of AMHRC's letter, and few other media outlets we had communication with these last few days. The coordination is headed by the Macedonian Community of Adelaide and South Australia, and they are working closely with AMHRC and UMD over this matter. We are all here to help, not steal anyone's spotlight.

AMHRC is doing a great job, and so are the Macedonian Community of Adelaide and South Australia, which are directly affected by this matter. UMD will continue to help both, should they need our help.

[Soldier of Macedon]

You think US recognition persuaded common Macedonians to not vote? The average Macedonian citizen doesn't give a shit what country recognizes them..........

I don't agree with that. Have you asked the average Macedonian citizen if they gave a shit about the USA recognising them in 2004? I was in Macedonia when it happened Buktop, I saw what went on. I saw Macedonians fooled into thinking that everything would improve in Macedonia so long as we had the recognition of the USA. Nishto ne se vide.

.........75% were more concerned with SDS taking their jobs (which is a stupid notion to begin with)

Stupid to whom? The people that stood to lose their jobs? Come on, you're not that ignorant to be unaware of that sort of thing happening in the past, where the political party in power quite often determined if you would have a job the following week. Again, I saw that happening too. I saw hardcore Macedonians keep their mouth's firmly shut because they didn't want to lose their jobs and means of support for their families. That is blackmail, that is an absolute disgrace.

........and the Prime minister Hari Kostov, who threatened to resign, who gives a shit if he would have resigned? Is party allegiance more important than the rights of Macedonians or the territorial integrity of Macedonia?

It had nothing to do with party allegiance and you know it. It was all scare-mongering, to give Macedonians the impression that there would be imminent disasters awaiting should the Macedonians vote in favour of their sovereignty. This is what happens when SDS are in power, they brainwash people with fear and lies. Couple this with USA recognition and threats of ethnic Albanian terrorism. It worked.

The earlier opinion polls showed that the Macedonian people were heavily in favour of the referendum against Macedonia's territorial division, then the above things start happening. Don't blame the people on account of the traitors in their (SDS in this and most cases) leadership.

[Jankovska]

I don't agree with that. Have you asked the average Macedonian citizen if they gave a shit about the USA recognising them in 2004? I was in Macedonia when it happened Buktop, I saw what went on. I saw Macedonians fooled into thinking that everything would improve in Macedonia so long as we had the recognition of the USA. Nishto ne se vide.

Stupid to whom? The people that stood to lose their jobs? Come on, you're not that ignorant to be unaware of that sort of thing happening in the past, where the political party in power quite often determined if you would have a job the following week. Again, I saw that happening too. I saw hardcore Macedonians keep their mouth's firmly shut because they didn't want to lose their jobs and means of support for their families. That is blackmail, that is an absolute disgrace.

It had nothing to do with party allegiance and you know it. It was all scare-mongering, to give Macedonians the impression that there would be imminent disasters awaiting should the Macedonians vote in favour of their sovereignty. This is what happens when SDS are in power, they brainwash people with fear and lies. Couple this with USA recognition and threats of ethnic Albanian terrorism. It worked.

The earlier opinion polls showed that the Macedonian people were heavily in favour of the referendum against Macedonia's territorial division, then the above things start happening. Don't blame the people on account of the traitors in their (SDS in this and most cases) leadership.

And Branko seems to be preparing something again.

[Buktop]

You are implying that Obama has more executive control over the US administration than Meto has over the UMD, but the facts simply don't support such an assertion. You are implying that what Meto says himself (as the president) does not equate to the policy of the UMD. You don't honestly believe that, do you? You don't find anything wrong with that picture?

You are basically giving Meto a licence to say and do whatever he feels, and that the UMD should be immune from criticism as a result. The president of the UMD calls for a 'democratic' prefix, but this is not allowed to be tied into the official policy of the UMD, is that it? That doesn't strike you as odd? Can you tell me where integrity and consistency fit into all of this? Sorry mate, no way, I can't accept your suggestion. If Meto can't stop saying the wrong thing, then for the sake of his organisation he should either step down or shut up.

I think the earlier comparison I made with Obama and Biden is more than valid, you can't have a leader saying one thing and his organisation claiming another, and not be questioned about your integrity. Can you show me another example of something like this where the population or membership agree with what you are saying, namely, that they accept the president of their group makes statements that apparently contradict the group's policies and are not in synch with the population or membership? A few parallels would strengthen your argument somewhat.

If you watched the Adelaide video, Meto expressly states, it was his own personal opinion to be in favor of the Democratic prefix at the time, not the policy of UMD.

What Meto proposes has to be approved by all board members of UMD, or maybe Rogi can shed some light as to the decision making of UMD boards. Either way, a single board member does not have the power to change policy single handed.

My problem is not about criticizing Meto's or other board members' statements, it is about confusing personal opinion with UMD policy. I don't agree with some of their statements either, but I wont discredit the entire organization for it.

I say this in general, and in principle, and I'm sure all agree:

Anyone is entitled to their own personal opinion.

However, you must consider in what capacity any statement is made. Is it as a representative of an organisation, is it in the name of the organisation, is it at an event of and/or for the organisation, is it to people questioning the organisation, or is it in a personal private conversation.

I agree

Secondly, the personal opinion of the head does reflect back on the organisation itself in that, it beckons the question why an organisation would keep at its' head someone so diametrically opposed to its' policy, if indeed there is such a disparity. So any organisation is automatically implicated by the personal or otherwise statements and views of its' head.

I do agree here but you can't argue that transference of criticism from a board member to the whole organization is justified, especially when the actions of the organization seem to indicate otherwise.