United Macedonia Diaspora

[Risto the Great]

Please let me know where you clarified your statement of "Too much nationalism and the ancient rhetoric from Macedonia have damaged our reputation".

[amitreski]

SOM

Again, Pelister has taken many statements out of context, twisted them and spun them around.

In terms of negotiations, I just said what Nimetz said in a public forum. Macedonia is not required to negotiate, but if Macedonia wants to join EU, NATO etc, then those are the conditions. So he is right, if the government of Macedonia does not want to join EU and NATO we can walk out of these negotiations. Unfortunately, (it is not UMD's fault) the entry in these organizations seems to be conditioned on the negotiations process.

If the government of the Republic of Macedonia stopped the negotiations, UMD would be the first to applaud this decision.

Now, where is UMD's fault in all this?

Everybody is frustrated with the position in which Macedonia is put. We should not negotiate for our name and identity. That is something that has been part of the Macedonians for several millenniums.

[amitreski]

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2566&page=3

post 25

[Prolet]

Thats an update for whats planned in 2010, im talking about what was achieved in 2009.

UMD Website: UMD’s website receives over 12,000 hits per day. UMD is working to improve its website and social networking to reach a wider audience internationally. We have plans to add a Macedonian-language section to our website.

Thats not what it says here

http://bizinformation.org/us/www.umdiaspora.org

Daily Visitors 120

[aleksandrov]

Having a self appointed board is because the organization was at its infancy and you want to get it off the ground. Since the organization has been founded we have seen increase in membership, increase in funding, increase of support. I guess we are doing something right.

Do you really not see the point I made or are you avoiding it?

I am not criticizing your decision to have a self-appointed board in the organisation's infancy. I am pointing out the contradiction between not having had any general meeting of members yet, but claiming that your policies are formulated by the will of the members, while dismissing (former) UMD members as something akin to a bunch of stray barking dogs by the roadside.

[aleksandrov]

Igor

Have you directed your criticism to the Macedonian government on this issue? If my memory serves me well, it was the Macedonian government that signed this agreement and it implementing it.

Are you kidding me? If you are going to put yourselves out as the leading policy-developing body of the Macedonian diaspora, you should at least have general knowledge of recent Macedonian history, including our community's (including my own) well recorded history of vehement condemnation of the Ohrid Framework Agreement and its implementation. Perhaps we need to make monthly media releases to reiterate our position, in the hope that the apparently uninformed will eventually catch on? In the meantime, please refer to my post on this http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...t=2450&page=43 page of a thread you've participated in.

But your question is out of place on this thread. Where do you see me criticizing the UMD on this thread or suggesting that it signed the Ohrid Framework Agreement? I have merely asked the simple question of whether the above quoted UMD statement amounts to support for the Ohrid Framework Agreement. What is your answer?

[Risto the Great]

So here is an extract of the post you refer to:

What happened was Macedonia started investing in monuments that were used to harm our public image to international diplomats. In my meetings with International diplomats that was relayed to me. That Macedonia was nationalistic, that Macedonia wanted to attack Greece, etc. To walk out of meetings and be told that Macedonia is a terrible neighbor just for planning to build a monument opposite to what Greece has been doing to Macedonia is appalling. This is all bullshit, but shows how polished the Greek diplomacy is. We just did not seize the moment. I have no problem about these monuments, just questioning the timing and hoped we were more strategic.

In terms of negotiations, I just said what Nimetz said in a public forum. Macedonia is not required to negotiate, but if Macedonia wants to join EU, NATO etc, then those are the conditions. So he is right, if the government of Macedonia does not want to join EU and NATO we can walk out of these negotiations. Unfortunately, (it is not UMD's fault) the entry in these organizations seems to be conditioned on the negotiations process.

If the government of the Republic of Macedonia stopped the negotiations, UMD would be the first to applaud this decision.

If the UMD represents the Macedonian Diaspora, then it would say to all the international diplomats that the historical figures are indeed important to Macedonians. In fact, it would defend the notion of promoting a strong national identity. Instead, it said it was a bad thing to do. I would call it perfect timing in my opinion.

You say: "If the government of the Republic of Macedonia stopped the negotiations, UMD would be the first to applaud this decision."

You also say NATO and EU entry would not be possible if Macedonia withdrew from the negotiation process. Based on constructive logic, can we therefore safely assume the UMD stands for no EU and NATO entry?

[Vangelovski]

On a public forum? Are you kidding?

Yes, on a public forum - if UMD is a democratic and transparent organisation, then it will have nothing to hide. In Australia, charitable organisations make their funding and budgets publically available. Is that such a weird concept?

[Vangelovski]

Mitreski,

Were is this "opinion-piece" that Meto wrote for The Age?

[indigen]

Only UMD political DRONES would deny this easily deduced fact. UMD is a RAMKOVIST support group and deserves to be politically excommunicated by ALL patriotic Macedonians, IMO!

[Homer MakeDonski]

indigen
I do not know about UMD ,but if you are saying that

deserves to be politically excommunicated by ALL patriotic Macedonians, IMO!

then what about present Macedonian political organization in RM such as DPMNE, SDSM ?
What did they deserve?

[indigen]

Do you really not see the point I made or are you avoiding it?

I am not criticizing your decision to have a self-appointed board in the organisation's infancy. I am pointing out the contradiction between not having had any general meeting of members yet, but claiming that your policies are formulated by the will of the members, while dismissing (former) UMD members as something akin to a bunch of stray barking dogs by the roadside.

IME, Meto Koloski and Aleksandar Mitrevski appear to be two sides of the same "UMD" coin and thus continually provide conflicting and contradictory statements that lack honesty and substance. Political Flip-flops is what they are.

Compare what A. Mitrevski is saying about the views of the membership with the following statement by M. Koloski:

Meto Koloski: "UMD’s membership wants Macedonia to pull out of negotiations, end the Interim Accord, and not discuss Macedonia’s name and identity. UMD has taken this approach and this is the official policy of the organization."

Can anyone take these JOKERS seriously? :-)

[indigen]

I refuse to believe that you are so dense as to believe what you just said there. And I hope you take that as a compliment.

You are too generous, IME, he/she is a "UMD" political DRONE (or Zombie) and reason, facts, evidence and rational thinking don't factor in their replies.

[indigen]

I hope that Meto's trip in Australia is seen as a way to polarize the Macedonians in Australia

WTF, we are ALREADY "polarized" enough and we surely don't need more of that. :-)

join and donate

The UMD mission in life is described in those two words exactly! Milk the Macedonians dry of financial resources so that they are not able to offer any effective resistance to current, and future, DECONSTRUCTION plans for Macedonia and Macedonian identity and cultural heritage.

[indigen]

I know exactly what he is implying. Here is the relevant excerpt from the original email that Mitreski sent to Pelister:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=19723&highlight=mitreski#post19723

How does one interpret that? Why should we accept that it is a must to negotiate on our name if we want to enter certain international organisations? I don't share that opinion. If we are to enter any organisation, our name shouldn't be up for discussion, period. If it does get brought up as a condition of entry, then we should walk away. That is what the UMD should have been telling the government, rather than fearing the 'unknown' of what might happen were we to "say fuck off and stop negotiations". At the end of his email, Mitreski also makes the following statement:

But Mitreski says earlier in the email that "what would happen next nobody knows". How are these two points reconciled? Why aren't they talking in public rather than in private? Does the UMD stand to lose something if it echoes the true voice of the Macedonian Diaspora in an overt manner?

Now who is twisting words and making re-interpretations? Mitreski said "he is right" in reference to Macedonia being 'bound' to negotiate its name for the purpose of entering international organisations. He did not, as falsely indicated in the above quoted text, say "he is right" with regard to Macedonia not being required to negotiate its name.

SOM, you have nailed it, mate!

Clearly "UMD" drones like "Buktop", "TK", and the rest are simply repeating a well-rehearsed political mantra that "Pelister" is "lying" when in fact it IS now CLEAR that A. Mitreski (as well as Koloski) is the one who is twisting the facts.

Cheers