Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI)

[Prolet]

AMHRC, Thats not entirely true at least not from what we've seen from Vodenka, she offered to show your representative from Skopje to meet with them and show them what they do. All Vodenka states was that her organization wants nothing to do with Vinozito she never said they hate Vinozito at least not publicly there is a difference, she is fed up because she believes that Vinozito takes all the credit for their work and they wont allow other organizations to do anything else in the Egej Region.

Now whoever Zoomer is i dont know and Vodenka has never mentioned this person, you did state that he does not live in Egej, if he has reacted in a rude manner then im sure he should bare the consequences for it but Vodenka publicly stated that she has never even dealt with the AMHRC so all this is done via MHRMI.

I think its best if Vodenka explains her views on this and where she stands with this Zoomer person who's obviously made a decision to knock back financial assistance from AMHRC and MHRMI, it seems like this person is spoiling it for everybody.

AMHRC, There is room for dialogue here i just think the other side needs to work a bit better to do whats best for both parties.

Vodenka, Who is Zoomer and why has he rejected help from our human rights groups on your behalf? Did you give him the right to do that or is there some kind of a misunderstanding here??

[makedonche]

I am 100% Macedonian, born and raised by my mother and her macedonian family, in Voden. My father was greek but my parents divorced when I was 4 years old. I have no greek relatives or any links (cultural, traditions or customs) with greeks', at least no more than any other Macedonian in Egejska.

Vodenka
Thank you for your response! and good answer by the way! There is no such thing as any of the previous mentioned choices, there is ONLY MACEDONIAN !!!!

[Prolet]

Makedonche, See? I told you so, but im sure you knew that already.

[makedonche]

Makedonche, See? I told you so, but im sure you knew that already.

Prolet
I had a reasonable idea that was the case, just wanted to confirm. I don't quite get the animosity towards AMHRC and Vinohzito?

[AMHRC]

Prolet,

This is truly the last time we shall respond on this issue. Here is the post in our dinner thread:

Vodenka,

We are not interested in your attacks against Vinozhito or your attempts to undermine them. Our partners, MHRMI, as we already mentioned, offered support for your organisation. Your friend, Zoomer, not only rejected this offer, he was abusive in the process.

Our co-ordinator has not approached you because he knows what you want. That is for us to stop supporting Vinozhito. We are prepared to work with all positive forces on the ground in Egej, unfortunately you are not prepared to do that. And yes there is a Vinozhito branch in Solun.

Your negative attitude as highlighted in your response, even towards Pavle's recent court victory is really disturbing.

That is all we have to say.

AMHRC.


Now, here is Vodenka's response:

I will not risk to ruin my reputation with our people and other organizations by associating my activities with those of Vinozhito' s members. I did not ask your financial help as you never offered it without involvig Vinozhito, as well. The only think I asked was to make clear to the Macedonians in the Diaspora that the languages classes from the Misirkov foundation do not exist, yet . People has a right to know were the money of donations go. NOW IT IS CLEAR IT WILL NOT GO FOR OUR LANGUAGE CLASSES BUT ONCE AGAIN ONLY TO THE VINOZHITO LEADERSHIP.
Thanks for nothing and good luck with your fundraising.

PS Voskopoulos Court decision in his favour on personal matters means nothing to our cause.


Now we shall explain where the contradictions really lie. You will notice that as we stated, she made it clear; I used the words above, "made it plain" that she does not want us to support Vinozhito - we never claimed that she actually uttered the words, it is implied. Because she did not bother to challenge our assertion that our co-ordinator knows that she wants us to end our support of Vinozhito.

However, even more importantly, the president of MHRMI, when he offered Vodenka support DID NOT make it a requirement that she support Vinozhito. He merely requested that she stop her foul attacks against them. This offer was abusively turned down by her friend, zoomer.

That truly is all; these attacks of Vodenka's and her friends have been going on for months now and they contain the most vile insinuations. We have had enough and will not engage any further.


Regards,

AMHRC.

[Phoenix]

Vodenka, Who is Zoomer and why has he rejected help from our human rights groups on your behalf? Did you give him the right to do that or is there some kind of a misunderstanding here??

Prolet, this is what we need to understand...

Why is this 'zoomer' character attacking this initiative here on this forum and why the character 'staro selo' is involved in the same slander over on the Maknews forum...

[sf.]

It is clear that Vinozhito aren't quite enjoying the support that we expected them to. There seems to be resistance beyond the normal reasons of greek pressure. This all needs to be explored if it hasn't already. People need to be made accountable.

How do you ensure support for all contributing to the Macedonian cause, while distancing yourself from internal politics? I don't expect a response - just some food for thought.

[Prolet]

I used the words above, "made it plain" that she does not want us to support Vinozhito - we never claimed that she actually uttered the words, it is implied. Because she did not bother to challenge our assertion that our co-ordinator knows that she wants us to end our support of Vinozhito.

AMHRC, This is her response here

I never said I do not want you to support Vinozhito. How could I stop you doing that?

Once again there is room for dialogue here and i think Vodenka needs to answer my previous questions related to her. Dont give up just yet AMHRC, you know this is not over mate. There is always hope and i think both sides need to come to sort of an agreement here. As long as the other side doesnt shut the door there is always a way.

[Prolet]

Prolet, this is what we need to understand...

Why is this 'zoomer' character attacking this initiative here on this forum and why the character 'staro selo' is involved in the same slander over on the Maknews forum...

Its starting to look that way mate

It could also be Chushka from the Maknews forum, i know he wasnt too impressed with Vinozito.

It would be a shame for a person like Zoomer to stop our human rights groups from doing their work, it shouldnt have to be this way.

[vodenka]

I must explain a few things. We have two organizations now in Egejska which are legal bodies (one is a political party, the other is a cultural organization). For reasons that I explained already, the cultural organization does not want to be connected to the political party. We started alone with our small resources and made some activities and plan to make some more, with no help from Vinozhito party, not even with a world of support when we were attacked by the greek fascists on blogs and local newspapers, last year, immediately after we found our organization. Vinozhito members were spreading around that the administrator of this organization is some “crazy woman” and that our program of Macedonian language classes were against and very damaging to the party’s position to claim from the greek state the Macedonian language to be introduced in the public schools (now, to be serious, here, how our initiative could damage their political position, I really wonder!).
Some time ago I read on Maknews forum that a Canadian Macedonian organization is publicizing a fundraising event for the Macedonian language classes in Egejska! We did not know anything as organization about this, we were not informed about it and I asked through maknews forum some explanation. I was told that the fundraising is actually for Vinozhito and K.P. Misirkov new foundation, but they are willing to help us too, financially, through them. I SAID “NO, THANKS”. We, as organization, are not collaborating with this party or the new foundation (which exists only in the fantasy of some Vinozhito members) ONLY on the fundraising (as there is no collaboration in any other way or support from their part): we work, they get the money, kind of thing! By experience, we do not want to see the same thing happen again as some years ago (radio station in Lerin): we are talking of exactly the same people in the party which we do not TRUST, anymore. Is this our right as Macedonians, or not?
We want to follow our way and hopefully will get to something, here, but we cannot do the same mistakes over and over again and give the blame to our people who do not want to follow us! We want to work with the people, for our people, for their wishes and needs, not just make some fireworks to keep happy our donors and sponsors.
Vinozhito has lot of work to do, if it wishes so, at least to bring the party to its position of 15 years ago. It has to make some self-criticism and work very hard to re-gain people’s trust. The few activists left in Vinozhito cannot do all the work (political action, cultural events, newspaper edition) but they want to monopolize everything and not collaborate with others who may take different fields in activism.
If we wanted to destroy Vizozhito, we could have founded a new political party, competitive to Vinozhito. Would this have been right? No, of course.
So, in conclusion, the Diaspora cannot oblige our organization to collaborate with people we do not trust. The Diaspora is free to help and finance whoever it wants, but we, from our part, will not allow anybody to “use” us. If we need financial help we can ask for it ourselves, not through other “representative” organizations in Greece.
As about “Zoomer” he is somebody who most probably dislikes Vinozhito and supports our initiatives. In no way he can damage or ruin your activities in supporting Macedonian organizations as you think is best.
I personally or any of our members know Dimitri Ioannou. Who he is or about his activities as macedonian activist, in the past.

[vodenka]

That's a bit like calling OMO Ilinden Pirin an 'illegal' organisation, because the Bulgarian authorities won't allow their registration (despite court rulings in Strasbourg).

Are they, in your opinion an 'illegal' organisation?

With all due respect, I think that is a very wrong way to look at things. Furthermore, the only reason why the 'Educational and Cultural Movenment of Edessa/Voden' is 'legal' (in your take on the word) and registered, is because it completely avoided use of the word/term 'Macedonian'.

I understand the reasoning behind that, though really, that's not unlike the Republic of Macedonia changing its' name to be 'registered' within the EU.

If OMO Ilinden Pirin will not get registration by bulgarian authorities it will not be able to participate in the elections so its existance is useless as political party. One way to pressure the bulgarian government to proceed on the registration is to gather Macedonian activists to protest in any city in Pirin Macedonia (not in Brussels) as long as it takes. This would have a big impact in Bulgaria and also abraod. Without a registration they will not be able to do what they are supposed to do: run at elections.
We may not have got the name Macedonian in our organization's title, but nobody can prohibit us to use the term, officially, in our activities.

[Prolet]

Vodenka, Interesting posts there

You mentioned before that you've only known Dimitrija for a year and a half and before that you didnt know who he is, now thats hardly a large time frame and now you are stating that you know exactly who he is and what he has done. Do you think he has done alot of good in terms of fighting for better human rights for our people in Egejska Makedonija?

Who is Zoomer and why is he making decisions on your behalf? I think you should be directly communicating with our Human Rights Groups and not allow somebody to ruin your name and the organization that you represent.

Vodenka, You stated that you dont want to have anything to do with Vinozito, so how do you expect for all this to work out?? Perhaps you are willing to work directly with the Human Rights Groups or with their representatives?? AMHRC would be a good person to answer this, i think on their end they dont want the reputation of the Vinozito party to be tarnished so you guys can do your work separately just dont provide negative feedback about the Vinozito Party thats the best way of looking at it. As long as you are prepared to compromise there will be a positive outcome to this, just dont shut the door.

[vodenka]

Prolet, I wrote that the first time I heard the name Dimitri Ioannou was during the last Vinozhito congress, about one year and a half ago. Other ex-Vinozhito members like me did not know him, either. I saw his face only in photos and videos on Youtube. I do not know of any activities of this guy, inside or outside Vinozhito. He maybe an excellent guy, but is completely unknown to me: he probably is one of the 2.500 voters of the party who decided to introduce himself to the party leadership, in Lerin.

Look, I do not know exactly who zoomer is. From the maknews forum I know staro selo who is very supportive to our organization., but I am not sure is the same person. All the people who want to help in any way our NGO is welcome and nobody ever took any decision on our behalf. MHRMI and AMHRC never offered any help even if they know that our organization is around one full year now and they know very well who organized the Macedonian language classes. Their section is Solun that they are talking about are 1-2 persons who are Vinozhito members and participate to the language classes which we organize and finance: no other involvement from the party. If they think that the presence of Vinozhito members (some we know and some maybe we do not know, personally) in our activities means that this is Vinozhito “branches” working for it, I am really sorry but it is not very honest. Anyway we will never exclude from our activities any Vinozhito member willing to participate because of this. All Macedonians are welcome.
Vinozhito has tarnished itself with its own actions and not because we are speaking the truth about it. We are a new organization and the only thing we got up today from some human rights organizations is indifference and personal attacks to me (vodenka) as they cannot say anything against the Educative and Cultural Movement of Voden or other members of it. Never mind, our people in Egejska have eyes to see and ears to hear.

HERE IS HOW VINOZHITO IS PERFORMING IN MACEDONIA ON THE ELECTIONS TO WHICH IT PARTICIPATED THE PAST YEARS.

EURO- ELECTIONS 1994 – 1999 – 2004 - 2009
DRAMA county … 44 - 47 - 42 - 45
KAVALA ....79 – 33 – 57 - 32
Α’ SOLUN ...198 – 139 – 231 - 126
Β’ SOLUN ...175 – 165 – 139 - 87
SERRES ......... 136 – 82 – 97 - 93
CHALKIDIKI ....56 – 2 – 48 - 48
ΚOUKOUSH .......... 181 – 131 – 136 - 123
PELLA (VODEN) ...... 1.347 – 656 – 404 - 375
IMATHIA (VER) ....... 375 – 154 – 219 - 131
PIERIA (KATERINI) ........ 59 – 31 – 57 - 31
LERIN ... 2.250 – 1.427 – 1.203 – 1.195
KOZANI ...... 269 – 264 – 199 - 160
ΚOSTUR ... 301 – 119 – 101 - 143
GREVENA...... 18 – 14 – 12 – 15
TOTAL ....5.488 – 3.264 – 2.945 – 2.594

First of all the Vinozhito leadership has to explain to us this electoral results and after they may look for money to organize Macedonian language lessons in Egejska, which, by the way, have already been organized by us.

[MHRMI]

MHRMI and AMHRC Call on Macedonia to Immediately Cease Name Negotations

MHRMI and AMHRC Call on Macedonia to Immediately Cease Name Negotations

Toronto, Canada and Melbourne, Australia (April 29, 2010) - In light of US Ambassador Philip Reeker's recent comments that "The [name] issue must be solved, because if not, a question mark is put on Macedonia's future", Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) and the Australian Macedonian Human Rights committee (AMHRC) reiterate their call for Macedonia to cease all negotiations with Greece over its name.

Mr. Reeker added, "The clock is ticking, it needs to be done right now, and we encourage both Macedonia and Greece to do this."

How can you ask a country to negotiate its own name?

The nonsensical name dispute was initiated by Greece in order to continue its policy of non-recognition and persecution of its large Macedonian minority. Former Greek Prime Minister Constantine Mitsotakis admitted in 1995,

"My main aim was to convince the Republic (of Macedonia) to declare that there is no Slavomacedonian minority in Greece. This was the real key of our difference with Skopje".

Ironically, Greece claims exclusivity to the name Macedonia, but it was not until 1988 when Greece realized that independence for the Republic of Macedonia was imminent, that it renamed “Northern Greece” to the “Province of Macedonia.”

Consequently, Greece imposed an economic embargo that crippled Macedonia's economy in 1992, it vetoed Macedonia's entry into NATO in 2008, and it has continued its decades-old policy of eradication and forcible assimilation of its Macedonian minority.

However, NATO and the European Union allow its member-states to be handcuffed by Greece's xenophobic policies. Despite overwhelming support for Macedonia's NATO membership, Greece was permitted to compromise regional stability and use its veto power against Macedonia for one reason - the name dispute.

Instead of reprimanding Greece, the Western world insists on a "solution" to the name dispute. Would any other country negotiate its own name?

The name dispute is akin to the US state of Georgia demanding that the Republic of Georgia change its name or the Belgian province of Luxembourg demanding that Luxembourg change its name.

Furthermore, any proposals to change Macedonia’s international, bilateral, or constitutional name, or to add "qualifiers" such as “Democratic” or “Northern", would change Macedonia’s identity everywhere and are completely unacceptable.

How can the European Union justify the violation of its own principles by asking Macedonia to change its name?

Greece is the only country that objects to Macedonia’s name. There is no need to find an international or bilateral "solution" based on one country's irrational and nationalistic fears. Unfortunately, by continuing the negotiations, Macedonia is telling the world that it is willing to compromise. Because of this, even countries that have recognized Macedonia would use any new name that is reached in a bilateral agreement. Macedonia can end the name dispute now and the calls for compromise by ending negotiations over its own name.

MHRMI and AMHRC call on:

1. Macedonia to stop the negotiations immediately and tell the international community that it is not willing to compromise its name and identity.

2. The rest of the international community, and EU in particular, to join the 127 countries that have recognized Macedonia, including 4/5 UN Security Council members, and to finally put an end to the irrational name dispute and immediately recognize Macedonia under its constitutional name.

###

Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) has been active on human and national rights issues for Macedonians and other oppressed peoples since 1986. For more information, please visit www.mhrmi.org, or contact MHRMI at 416-850-7125, or [email protected].

Established in 1984 the Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee (AMHRC) is a non governmental organisation that informs and advocates to governments, international institutions and broader communities about combating discrimination and promoting basic human rights. Our aspiration is to ensure that Macedonian communities and other excluded groups throughout the world are recognised, respected and afforded equitable treatment. For more information please visit www.macedonianhr.org.au, or contact AMHRC at [email protected] or via +61 3 93298960.

[Pavel]

reeker is scum!