Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI)

[Makedonska_Kafana]

We have not been contacted by UMD.

Thank you, leave it with us.

http://www.makedonskakafana.com/world_macedonian_diaspora.html

[Risto the Great]

Thanks MHRMI, I am a big fan of initiatives that get Macedonians out of their comfort zones and challenges the accepted norms. Especially when all is being asked is so fundamental.

There appears to be a school of thought that we in the Diaspora should not be telling the Macedonians in Macedonia what we believe is good for them. How do you reconcile that with this excellent campaign?

[AMHRC]

Thanks Risto,

Your question is quite pertinent. Firstly it was precisely our aim to shake people up and remove them from their comfort zones. Our concern is not only the hideous fact of the name negotiations alone; it is that certain sections of Macedonian society were beginning to view them as “normal”. Of course they are not! By their existence they imply a serious breach of a people’s right to maintain control over a domain that is nobody else’s business – the right to name oneself. So as you say, it is FUNDAMENTAL.

Our guess is that most people in Macedonia intuitively know this – even those that are in favour of continuing the negotiations. However, intuition is not enough; we felt that it was necessary to begin to positively encourage people to act on this intuition.

Secondly while we do not reside in Macedonia this does not preclude us from offering advice and from pointing out pertinent facts to do with widely accepted notions (in the Western world at any rate) about what constitutes a dignified existence.

Thirdly, decisions in Macedonia, made on this level, will indeed have an impact upon those of us not residing there – as the issue at stake is our identity.

Fourthly, many Macedonians in the Diaspora have relatives in Macedonia and are sincerely concerned about their welfare and in particular, as already indicated, their dignity and the protection of their rights in general.

Fifth, is the very pertinent fact that was relayed to the public in Macedonia, via a conference organised by AMHRC/MHRMI in Skopje, that the Macedonian Diaspora is a very substantial contributor to the Macedonian economy – thus there is a financial stake which also cannot be easily dismissed or ignored by those in Macedonia who are opposed to the message contained in our ad campaign.

Finally, on a point perhaps not directly related to your question, but still relevant; we feel that our message is not framed in a manner that talks down to people, or that is in some way abusive. We are not ‘giving orders’. It is simply about firmly and yet positively encouraging people to stand up for what is right. Some people will always take offence, no matter how the message is delivered. This cannot be helped. However, in general, the feedback we have received from Macedonia so far is that we were correct to have delivered the message in this positive manner. This concurs with our experience so far, in many of the other human rights activities we have undertaken over the years. At times, the phrase “the medium is the message” has been very popular in journalistic and academic circles and though we will certainly not claim universal applicability for such a phrase (we are not here to try to make cheap philosophy of the kind often seen in the mainstream media), it has in our experience, very often been true.

No doubt the general points made in this answer to your question could be expanded considerably and the nuances of the issues could also be discussed in much more detail. However, we feel that the outline given above provides enough justification for our actions.

Regards,

AMHRC.

[Dejan]

Bravo to the AMHRC organization. Personally I think by this org being in the diaspora and not in Macedonia, they are almost immune to all the bullshit that others may face when standing up for the rights of the Macedonians. Keep up the great work

[Risto the Great]

Thanks Risto,

Your question is quite pertinent. Firstly it was precisely our aim to shake people up and remove them from their comfort zones. Our concern is not only the hideous fact of the name negotiations alone; it is that certain sections of Macedonian society were beginning to view them as “normal”. Of course they are not! By their existence they imply a serious breach of a people’s right to maintain control over a domain that is nobody else’s business – the right to name oneself. So as you say, it is FUNDAMENTAL.

Our guess is that most people in Macedonia intuitively know this – even those that are in favour of continuing the negotiations. However, intuition is not enough; we felt that it was necessary to begin to positively encourage people to act on this intuition.

Secondly while we do not reside in Macedonia this does not preclude us from offering advice and from pointing out pertinent facts to do with widely accepted notions (in the Western world at any rate) about what constitutes a dignified existence.

Thirdly, decisions in Macedonia, made on this level, will indeed have an impact upon those of us not residing there – as the issue at stake is our identity.

Fourthly, many Macedonians in the Diaspora have relatives in Macedonia and are sincerely concerned about their welfare and in particular, as already indicated, their dignity and the protection of their rights in general.

Fifth, is the very pertinent fact that was relayed to the public in Macedonia, via a conference organised by AMHRC/MHRMI in Skopje, that the Macedonian Diaspora is a very substantial contributor to the Macedonian economy – thus there is a financial stake which also cannot be easily dismissed or ignored by those in Macedonia who are opposed to the message contained in our ad campaign.

Finally, on a point perhaps not directly related to your question, but still relevant; we feel that our message is not framed in a manner that talks down to people, or that is in some way abusive. We are not ‘giving orders’. It is simply about firmly and yet positively encouraging people to stand up for what is right. Some people will always take offence, no matter how the message is delivered. This cannot be helped. However, in general, the feedback we have received from Macedonia so far is that we were correct to have delivered the message in this positive manner. This concurs with our experience so far, in many of the other human rights activities we have undertaken over the years. At times, the phrase “the medium is the message” has been very popular in journalistic and academic circles and though we will certainly not claim universal applicability for such a phrase (we are not here to try to make cheap philosophy of the kind often seen in the mainstream media), it has in our experience, very often been true.

No doubt the general points made in this answer to your question could be expanded considerably and the nuances of the issues could also be discussed in much more detail. However, we feel that the outline given above provides enough justification for our actions.

Regards,

AMHRC.

Thanks for hopping on to the answer AMHRC.
I was hoping MHRMI would be able to answer the question here. It would help to give us an insight into their way of seeing things.

Your answer is really clear and logical and there needs to be more people and organisations willing to spread similar messages in Macedonia in my opinion.

I still see an eternal problem in the Diaspora telling anything to the Macedonians in Macedonia. From what I can safely gather from all of our discussions this year, the Macedonians in Macedonia feel they are the only ones who should determine the direction of Macedonia. That nobody else is qualified to tell them anything and any message not coming from within will not be embraced in a positive manner. Of course I find this stupid. The position of weakness that Macedonia fights from is being defined or created by external powers. It is completely appropriate for external assistance and advice to be provided by interested and capable parties in the Diaspora.

while we do not reside in Macedonia this does not preclude us from offering advice and from pointing out pertinent facts to do with widely accepted notions (in the Western world at any rate) about what constitutes a dignified existence.

We are all talking about a dignified existence here. The suggestion here is that the Macedonians in Macedonia may not know what such an existence entails. In my mind, I have associated a willingness to live a less than dignified existence with what I call a "slave mentality". It seems to have hit a raw nerve with some.

My recent lengthy chats with relatives from Skopje (highly educated professionals with strong knowledge of history) reveals the following:

- EU is a waste of time, they see Bulgaria as an example of what it does not offer. "75% of Macedonians do not want to be in the EU"
- They see nothing wrong with the new flag whatsoever. ... "Nobody tells us we can't use the old flag in Macedonia" is the comment.
- On Albanianisation of Macedonia ... "The USA is not causing any problems. The EU is causing some problems here." "The Macedonian politicians let the 150,000 Kosovars get citizenship so they could get more votes." and "the joining of municipalities is a done deal, who cares, they are all Albanian anyway" ... "they are not real Albanians, they are Shiptars ... the Albanians from Albania do not recognise them as being the same as them"

Quite frankly, I think they are so captivated with the notion of measuring up to Europe and western civilisation, that they have forgotten what is being lost in the process.

Thirdly, decisions in Macedonia, made on this level, will indeed have an impact upon those of us not residing there – as the issue at stake is our identity.

And this is the reason why all of us in the Diaspora will keep fighting. No matter what capitulations are willingly offered by Macedonians in Macedonia.

Thanks again for your continued and well structured hard work in 2010. Samo napred.

[Phoenix]

I still see an eternal problem in the Diaspora telling anything to the Macedonians in Macedonia. From what I can safely gather from all of our discussions this year, the Macedonians in Macedonia feel they are the only ones who should determine the direction of Macedonia. That nobody else is qualified to tell them anything and any message not coming from within will not be embraced in a positive manner. Of course I find this stupid. The position of weakness that Macedonia fights from is being defined or created by external powers. It is completely appropriate for external assistance and advice to be provided by interested and capable parties in the Diaspora.

I think there's only one issue that puts all Macedonians on an equal level and that's the issue of identity, regardless of where a Macedonian resides in the world, the issue of identity holds equal weight for all of us. Its this issue of identity that no politician or individual Macedonian has a right to barter on behalf of every Macedonian, by all means any individual can fight for the preservation and security of our identity but no individual or groups of individuals has the right to negate or trade this right.

For most other issues concerning Macedonia's future direction I would argue that the diaspora has less overall influence but identity and everything associated with self determination is at the top of the agenda for the diaspora.

[Risto the Great]

identity and everything associated with self determination is at the top of the agenda for the diaspora.

I don't think anything else even interests the Diaspora.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

I don't think anything else even interests the Diaspora.

Can someone fill the UMD in on this know fact since 1890?

[Pelister]

I agree with the point you made AMHRC about how given enough time people might begin to accept what is happening as the 'norm'. My suspicion is that that is what Gruevski is 'holding out' for. The negotiations are clearly unpopular with the Macedonian people, so why continue them? I think that there are forces trying to railroad us toward extinction, and the Macedonian people have been conveniently 'sidelined' in this clearly very destructive movement.

Excellent initiative.

[MHRMI]

MHRMI and AMHRC Condemn Macedonian Government's Continued Participation in Name Negotiations

Toronto, Canada and Melbourne, Australia (January 18, 2011) - On January 15, United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki Moon said "I was pleased to see the dynamics created last year by direct dialogue between the two prime ministers of Greece and FYROM. Now it's time to move toward decisions that will settle this issue."

The reference to "FYROM" follows the United Nations recent removal of all references to the Macedonian language and the latest European Commission report that removed references to the Macedonian language and used the term "state language" instead. Macedonia had to demand reinstatement.

In response, European Union ambassador Erwan Fouere said, "The EU is not involved in changing the identity of people. Identity is something sacred and it should not be negotiable."

So why is the EU demanding that Macedonia change its name in order to gain membership?

More to the point, how does the Macedonian government justify negotiating its own name?

The United States and Western Europe have repeatedly called on Macedonia to find a "solution" to the name dispute. The only reason is because Macedonia indicates its willingness to compromise by continuing the nonsensical name negotiations.

131 countries have recognized Macedonia, including four of the five permanent UN Security Council members. As MHRMI and AMHRC state in the Our Name is Macedonia campaign, "We are winning. We have the power to end this. Stop negotiating our own name".

The Our Name is Macedonia campaign, which demands that Macedonia end all negotiations with Greece over its name, includes billboards throughout Macedonia, ads in print and online editions of major newspapers, television commercials, press conferences, radio interviews and the distribution of hundreds of thousands of flyers throughout the country.

This is the most crucial issue facing Macedonia and Macedonians. How can you help?


Contact Macedonian government officials and demand an immediate end to the negotiations. Contact information is on the Our Name is Macedonia webpage.

• Sign on to the campaign, as an individual or organization, by visiting www.mhrmi.org/our_name_is_macedonia
• Every Macedonian website should have an Our Name is Macedonia banner - www.mhrmi.org/our_name_is_macedonia/web
• Promote the campaign in Macedonian communities worldwide. For ad campaign posters or more information, please contact us.
• Demand support from the international community. We will provide contact information for government officials and media.
• Make a donation. Join the MHRMI Human Rights Fund (www.mhrmi.org/donation.asp) or the AMHRC Minorities Support Fund (www.macedonianhr.org.au/03getinvolved)

Silence is not an option. Our Name is Macedonia.

###

Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) has been active on human and national rights issues for Macedonians and other oppressed peoples since 1986. For more information, please visit www.mhrmi.org, or contact MHRMI at 416-850-7125, or [email protected].

Established in 1984 the Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee (AMHRC) is a non governmental organisation that informs and advocates to governments, international institutions and broader communities about combating discrimination and promoting basic human rights. Our aspiration is to ensure that Macedonian communities and other excluded groups throughout the world are recognised, respected and afforded equitable treatment. For more information please visit www.macedonianhr.org.au, or contact AMHRC at [email protected] or via +61 3 93298960.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Excellent!

[George S.]

Does anyone have emails for these people i've been wanting to blast these people for years.That Monkey Moon should go back to the jungle he knows jackshit about macedonia.

[George S.]

How can a country be told you have to compromise & change your name to appease some other country.This is beyond a joke,this has gone far enough.Everyone is saying how the politicians need to be told in the macedonian govt to stop negotiating.Will they listen when we know their hidden agenda is to capitulate.Isn't it absurd i'm in the diaspora & these Dodos on the government think they can just rename us at will.Do people know that the greeks are prepared to pay big money to whoever changes our name??

[MHRMI]

MHRMI Op-Ed Published by Eurasia Review - Why Is EU Demanding That Macedonia Change Its Name?

https://www.eurasiareview.com/opinion/opinion-opinion/why-is-eu-demanding-that-macedonia-change-its-name-05012011

January 4, 2011

"The EU is not involved in changing the identity of people. Identity is something sacred and it should not be negotiable," according to European Union ambassador Erwan Fouere.

So why is the EU demanding that Macedonia change its name in order to gain membership?

Mr. Fouere was responding to the latest European Commission report that removed references to the Macedonian language and used the term "state language" instead. The United Nations followed suit and removed all references to the Macedonian language. Macedonia had to demand reinstatement.

Greece claims that it wants the Republic of Macedonia to change its name to "prevent confusion" with the province of Macedonia.

Does the EU actually believe this? Then again, it is bailing out Greece after it blatantly lied about its economic situation.

The nonsensical name dispute was initiated by Greece in order to continue its policy of non-recognition and persecution of its large Macedonian minority. Former Greek Prime Minister Constantine Mitsotakis admitted in 1995,

"My main aim was to convince the Republic [of Macedonia] to declare that there is no Slavomacedonian [using the Greek government’s pejorative term for the Macedonians of Greece] minority in Greece. This was the real key of our difference with Skopje."

Ironically, Greece now claims that "Macedonia is Greek", but it was not until 1988, when Greece realized that independence for the Republic of Macedonia was imminent, that it renamed “Northern Greece” to “Macedonia.” Prior to this, Greece's policy was that Macedonia did not exist. Now its policy is "The more outrageous the lie, the more believable it becomes".

The question is, does the world believe it? The answer appears to be "no". 129 countries, including four of the five permanent UN Security Council members, have recognized Macedonia. Now will these countries take the next logical step and denounce the name negotations as an unprincipled intrusion on the constitution of a sovereign nation?

Unfortunately, the United States, which has already recognized Macedonia, is calling for a "compromise". The US views itself as a leader in spreading democracy and human rights throughout the world. So how does it justify asking a country to change its own name?

The European Union and NATO have taken it one step further. In addition to calling for a "solution", the EU and NATO are allowing themselves to be handcuffed by Greece's racist and xenophobic policies. Every NATO member-state supported Macedonia's membership, yet Greece was permitted to veto it.

According to former US Secretary of State, Lawrence Eagleburger, "The name dispute is unnecessary and unfounded, since Macedonia was called the same in the time of former Yugoslavia and this did not cause any problems then". He added, "Is there anything more immature and more foolish than 'blackmailing' a nation by denying its membership in international organizations, which goal is to preserve the peace and protect their members from aggression of non-members."
Yet for two decades, the United Nations admission of Macedonia as a member under the "temporary" reference "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" persists.

If Greece's "name dispute" with Macedonia made any sense, then where are the calls from the US State of Georgia for the Republic of Georgia to change its name? How about the Belgian province of Luxembourg demanding that Luxembourg change its name?

The first UN mediator for the name dispute, Robin O'Neil, said that "Macedonia must not and will not change its name in order to appease Greece. If Macedonia succumbs to pressures and changes its name, such events will only give more firepower to Greece until it reaches its final goal - Macedonia to vanish from the map."

Every Macedonian government has continued the ridiculous name negotiations solely to satisfy American and Western European pressure to find a "compromise" with Greece. Instead of capitulating to countries that demand a change to Macedonia's name and identity, the Macedonian government must immediately end the name negotiations and demand support from these countries.

Bill Nicholov, President
Macedonian Human Rights Movement International

https://www.mhrmi.org

416-850-7125

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Thank you Vasil