Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI)

[indigen]

Indigen, I already did this in post #248, great minds think alike I guess.

National Identity (aside from national politics) remain unchanged. Though as has been cited, those name changes were inspired by internal revolutionary forces, not by external political pressure. In any case, the examples provided are not representative of the situation in question, and therefore, are not valid for comparison.

We hardly think alike and (some of) the example provided CERTAINLY do mean a CHANGE of NATIONALITY!!!

Cylon=Cylonese
Sri Lanka=Sri Lankan

Kampuchea=Kampuchean
Cambodia=Cambodian

Congo=Congolese
Zaire= Zairean

Upper Volta = Upper Voltian
Burkina Faso: Burkinabe

Thailand=Thai
Siam=Siamese

As can be seen above, change in state name equals a change of the nationality name!

[Bratot]

If they had power to block, I would salute them but I expect that their campaign will be used by HellAss to stitch a deal that they could claim was against "strong nationalist opposition"! In other words I see ( and suspect) that it is a diversion and a cover for a renaming exercise of Macedonia!!!

.. and also to fool some of the Macedonians that this is "absolutely unacceptable" solution for the Greeks, so we could bought this shit naively as the "good" one.

Suckers

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

The Greeks copying MHRMI&AMHRC campaign:

If this is fake, it's illegal to put underage kids on posters.

[sf.]

As stated by Kiro Gligorov... :
"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century (AD)"

I knew Gligorov is old, but not that old.

[Buktop]

We hardly think alike and (some of) the example provided CERTAINLY do mean a CHANGE of NATIONALITY!!!

Cylon=Cylonese
Sri Lanka=Sri Lankan

Kampuchea=Kampuchean
Cambodia=Cambodian

Congo=Congolese
Zaire= Zairean

Upper Volta = Upper Voltian
Burkina Faso: Burkinabe

Thailand=Thai
Siam=Siamese

As can be seen above, change in state name equals a change of the nationality name!

And as I mentioned, it did not affect their Ethnic or National identities, and these name changes were largely the result of domestic forces, policy changes, revolutionary movements, as well as independence, not the result of external pressure.

Once again, National Identity: The depiction of a country as a whole, encompassing its culture, traditions, language, and politics.

Nationality only indicates citizenship, it does not affect who you are, merely where you claim residence. The problem is that in our situation, Greece also wishes to completely detach our ethnic/national identities AND our Nationality from the name Macedonia.

[Vangelovski]

Buktop,

If you're going to pretend to know what you're talking about, you could at least learn and understand key concepts. Its been at least 2 years since you first started making up your own definitions. The two you just provided are just as ludicrous as all of your others.

[Buktop]

Buktop,

If you're going to pretend to know what you're talking about, you could at least learn and understand key concepts. Its been at least 2 years since you first started making up your own definitions. The two you just provided are just as ludicrous as all of your others.

Well why don't you just assign me some more textbooks professor? Or will you take it upon yourself this time to teach me a lesson?

[Bratot]

I think it would be easier to settle for a transplantation of a new brain for you than teaching you.

You lack factual logic, the examples of Indigen were very clear, and your concept about the " external pressure " is self-deceptive since the pressure can exist this or either way, it is not a validation, but it will be you personally legitime for such change to occure.

[Buktop]

I think it would be easier to settle for a transplantation of a new brain for you than teaching you.

You lack factual logic, the examples of Indigen were very clear, and your concept about the " external pressure " is self-deceptive since the pressure can exist this or either way, it is not a validation, but it will be you personally legitime for such change to occure.

Well, maybe I can have yours then? You don't seem to be using it much...

Example: Upper Volta name was changed to Burkina Faso in 1984, after it was released from French rule in 1960 and after 20 years of coups, it was a choice of the citizens to rename the country. , as Burkina Faso means "land of the honest people" and does not relate to their ethnic or national identity. The main inhabitants call themselves the Mossi, being Burkinabe (in relation to their citizenship) has not prevented them or stopped them from declaring that.

[fyrOM]

Indigen Do you know the saying

Too smart by half

BooHoo countries change their names and hence it means their identity…ever wonder why.

Ceilão was the name given to Sri Lanka by the Portuguese when they arrived in 1505, which was transliterated into English as Ceylon. As a British colony, ...


The full name of the modern country is Preahreachanachâk Kampuchea, "Kingdom of Cambodia"; the name used on formal occasions is Prâteh Kampuchea (Khmer: ប្រទេសកម្ពុជា), literally "the Country of Cambodia", and the colloquial name is Srok Khmae (Khmer: ស្រុកខ្មែរ), literally "the Khmer Land". The English "Cambodia" and the French "Cambodge" both represent the Khmer name "Kâmpŭchea"

Ect.

Hows this for an idea of not changing names…maybe we can go back to our old name of South Serbia.

[Bratot]

Well, maybe I can have yours then? You don't seem to be using it much...

Example: Upper Volta name was changed to Burkina Faso in 1984, after it was released from French rule in 1960 and after 20 years of coups, it was a choice of the citizens to rename the country. , as Burkina Faso means "land of the honest people" and does not relate to their ethnic or national identity. The main inhabitants call themselves the Mossi, being Burkinabe (in relation to their citizenship) has not prevented them or stopped them from declaring that.

I forgot your Ph.D. title, but wait a second, are you saying that we could freely change the name of our country without harming our identity?

How it would work for us, to be Vardar Macedonia for ex. and being as Vardarians only in relation to our citizenship?

But we could call ourself whatever we like, right?

Not to mention the "choice of the citizens" which is planned to be employed in our case as well, by organizing a referendum.

[indigen]

And as I mentioned, it did not affect their Ethnic or National identities, and these name changes were largely the result of domestic forces, policy changes, revolutionary movements, as well as independence, not the result of external pressure.

Once again, National Identity: The depiction of a country as a whole, encompassing its culture, traditions, language, and politics.

Nationality only indicates citizenship, it does not affect who you are, merely where you claim residence. The problem is that in our situation, Greece also wishes to completely detach our ethnic/national identities AND our Nationality from the name Macedonia.

I replied to Rogi, whom I respect as a Macedonian patriot, in order to add some extra clarification/information to his original post and I have no intention to pollute this thread with off-topic posts. I do not wish to have any further discussion with you in this thread (or, if possible, any other thread) and Vangelovski and others can deal with you as they see fit.

MHRMI and AMHRC Launch Ad Campaign Demanding End to Name Negotiations

Stay on-topic!

[Vangelovski]

Well why don't you just assign me some more textbooks professor? Or will you take it upon yourself this time to teach me a lesson?

Buktop,

I think Bratot hit the nail on the head. It would be much easier to give you a brain transplant than to teach your existing one anything. Trying to explain these key concepts to you is like trying to explain to someone from the 13th century what a computer is - they're beyond your comprehension. The fact that you once claimed all those scholars of nationalism agree with your definitions (in their books) shows that you are in a much sadder state of affairs than I originally thought.

[Buktop]

I forgot your Ph.D. title, but wait a second, are you saying that we could freely change the name of our country without harming our identity?

How it would work for us, to be Vardar Macedonia for ex. and being as Vardarians only in relation to our citizenship?

But we could call ourself whatever we like, right?

Not to mention the "choice of the citizens" which is planned to be employed in our case as well, by organizing a referendum.

No, if you actually read my posts instead of trying to measure your manhood, you might have understood the point.

The examples provided by Rogi dealt with domestic national movements choosing their name, the situation with Macedonia deal's with a foreign presence dictating not only the name of the country, but the identity of it's people. Two completely different situations.

And as I mentioned, it did not affect their Ethnic or National identities, and these name changes were largely the result of domestic forces, policy changes, revolutionary movements, as well as independence, not the result of external pressure.

The problem is that in our situation, Greece also wishes to completely detach our ethnic/national identities AND our Nationality from the name Macedonia.

As I have said, no name change that would compromise our National Identity, clearly Greece wishes to do just that, so therefor no name change. It is merely political positioning, a cheap trick in wording that fools people who don't bother to put 2 and 2 together.

[Buktop]

Buktop,

I think Bratot hit the nail on the head. It would be much easier to give you a brain transplant than to teach your existing one anything. Trying to explain these key concepts to you is like trying to explain to someone from the 13th century what a computer is - they're beyond your comprehension. The fact that you once claimed all those scholars of nationalism agree with your definitions (in their books) shows that you are in a much sadder state of affairs than I originally thought.

You always were keen on taking the easy way out, it's very revealing of your character...