Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI)

[AMHRC]

1. Can you tell us for how long this campaign will run? For ads, will it be on every daily issue, or is it x-number of days per week?
2. Is it only in two papers?
3. How about bus stations?
4. What is the cost for a billboard ad? (roughly speaking, given the size and position)

Currency Trader,

Firstly, thanks again for pledging to support the campaign.

We don't want to put specific limits on the length of the campaign just yet, as it has only just begun. We are hoping to continue with it until it grows into a significant internal to Macedonia, movement, that has some impact on government policy. Though of course we may not succeed in achieving this, it is our hope and therefore the campaign should continue, at least until the end of this year.

As you know, we began with a press conference and followed that up with an all day conference, where it was demonstrated that the Macedonian diaspora is a very relevant stake holder in the name issue. At this conference several leading Macedonian intellectuals from RoM, condemned the name talks. We are planning to stage another conference with new faces, very soon. The aim being to develop the view that many responsible people in RoM, contrary to the view propagated by certain media outlets in RoM, are in fact opposed to the "name talks".

Some people in the diaspora seemed to have expected this campaign to perform the miracle of ending the talks overnight. We always considered that a very unlikely occurrence; our aim is simply to put the issue of ending the talks back on the agenda inside Macedonia. This is because a very unhealthy situation has developed, whereby many in RoM have come to view the name talks as a 'natural' part of life, when in fact they are very far from that!

We have no plans for bus stations, though we are intending very soon, to organise the distribution of hundreds of thousands of flyers in RoM.

The newspaper advertisements appear on set days and have now appeared in all the major newspapers.

We are also planning to very soon begin television advertisements.

As for costs, we would prefer not to talk about them on a public a public forum; they vary and are subject to negotiation. If you do want to talk in more detail about the figures, please feel free to email us at [email protected]

Finally, if others on this forum are interested in donating financial support to this campaign, we would very much appreciate it. The campaign will continue for some time yet.

Regards,

AMHRC.

Your approach and strategy is reasonable. It always takes time to build a strong foundation.





Its a smart move to include domestic intellectuals in this grassrot movement. That way you limit the perception of "we" (diaspora) vs "them" (domestic Macedonians). Try also to include in these conferances people from various age groups, in-particular the up-and coming generation of intellectuals, as well as female thinkers. I noted that there were quite a few female journalists in the audience. Not sure how many there are in the government, but its a wise move to include both genders.




Macedonians are a bit naive due to complex history. Nonetheless, as you say, miracles do not happen overnight. And Mr Gruevski will not come out the next day and say "we will end the talks", that would be politically amatuerish - Your point of the current situation is also correct. The risk of a similar situation as the Cyprus talks. Greece do not want change, they just want to prolong the talks in hope that the other side capitulates.

Its important that you also highlight what the country has achieved so far in these past 10 years, because it will show that Macedonians themselves can decide their own future and development. Just like other countries have done.





OK - thanks for the additional information.





Thanks for your detailed response.

CT,

Thanks for your comments too.

AMHRC.

[Pelister]

And Mr Gruevski will not come out the next day and say "we will end the talks", that would be politically amatuerish...

In my opinion, it is some deified notion of 'politics' that has us in this mess in the first place.

Its time the bullshit just stopped. A statement issued by the Macedonian leadership that the Hellenic Republic are only interested in our political extinction, is all that is required. Everyone knows it.
We have a powerful moral right and a powerful legal right, to end this immediately.

The whole 'E.U thing' is also bullshit. Europe, like NATO are bureacracies that have built up around centuries and centuries of conquest, of the acquisition of foriegn territory and the extermination of natives. We can't expect them to change, but we can expect them to make 'life' (so to speak), problematic at times, but only in so far as we want to be a part of the E.U club. Take away our desire to be a part of that club, and you take away the bullshit that surrounds this aspiration.

[Currency Trader]

In my opinion, it is some deified notion of 'politics' that has us in this mess in the first place.

Its time the bullshit just stopped. A statement issued by the Macedonian leadership that the Hellenic Republic are only interested in our political extinction, is all that is required. Everyone knows it.
We have a powerful moral right and a powerful legal right, to end this immediately..

Considering that Macedonia was naked after the breakup of Yugoslavia, all it could use for independence was: Politics - To make it brief, modern Macedonians, due to its own complex history, has never been champions or even close to being politically astute, yet even street smart. In this department, the modern Greeks have their experience along with a military mentality. Interestingly and perhaps historically, there is a difference in mindset between Agean Macedonians and mainland Macedonians. You know the rest.

In addition, if you dont have a military mentality or experience, (balkans in particular) nor political savviness, the chance for making big mistakes early on is high. That's the true story here. How much of the two did mainland Macedonians have prior to declaration of independence?

As for the Macedonian leadership making a statement that H.R is only interested in our political extinction, I believe they have on a numbers of occassions. They have referred to H.R's unrealistic demands which are unacceptable. However, they are using diplomatic and careful language to avoid accusations of being anti-diplomatic or provocative.
At some point, when they are ready, it needs to be addressed more direct.

The whole 'E.U thing' is also bullshit. Europe, like NATO are bureacracies that have built up around centuries and centuries of conquest, of the acquisition of foriegn territory and the extermination of natives. We can't expect them to change, but we can expect them to make 'life' (so to speak), problematic at times, but only in so far as we want to be a part of the E.U club. Take away our desire to be a part of that club, and you take away the bullshit that surrounds this aspiration.

When you are a small country with limited resources, capital, infrastructure etc, you will not be treated equally as others. That goes without saying in my opinion.

The ability to generate economic growth and prosperity on your own, will eventually raise awareness among Macedonians that there are alternative ways. Not everything hinges on membership in EU. But until that day, it will be a struggle.

As Clinton once said during his campaigning: "Its the economy, stupid" (Not suggesting you are stupid).





.

[fyrOM]

Right said CurrencyTrader. In speaking with older Macedonians about their experiences in coming to Australia I found a common theme. Most from RoM rushed to the factories and saw the game of accumulating wealth as working harder for longer.

I’m sure you know many Macedonians worked difficult jobs for as much overtime as they could get. I think it all stems from their experience in life. Most had a limited education and in Titos communist jail working for a boss even if it is the state was the ingrained norm. Those with more education and better jobs didn’t rush out to Australia. Any business investment has its risks. Many I have spoken to said they felt they didn’t know how to run a business and the fear of risking everything they hade accumulated to date stopped them from trying and hence poured everything into buying one house after another as this was the only investment the considered safe.

Even when they saw other Macedonians running businesses and how if a business takes off it can make you much more many still never tried. Many of the Macedonians they knew running businesses were from egej and they felt the egej Macedonians had been in Australia for many years if not decades before them and arrived as children or young adults and hence had time to learn English and learn how business was done in Australia or had exposure to business in egej. The worker mindset was prevalent in the ones coming from RoM as was with the ones they left back in RoM. I cant say for certain but I strongly suspect the subordinate mentality was prevalent even in those with high jobs in communist Macedonia as Yugoslavia was the boss and you were just middle management. Sadly it is one of the many negative legacies of Titos time.

[Bill77]

The UMD has recently come to the conclusion that negotiations must stop.

Brat.... Is this fact?
or just the usual talk and no substance by UMD.

They should support the AMHRC/MHRMI with this initiative. But if they are looking for "singular" glory, then they should do their own advertisements saying the same thing.
It should be noted that the Diaspora is fully behind this initiative. If the UMD remains absent from supporting this then it really does only represent its membership. Like it says occasionally.

Or atleast don't publicly distance your self from it. What is Meto scared of,

Skopje, 16 August 2010 (MIA) - We are not part of the campaign run by immigrants requesting name talks to be stopped, but we do consider that the name of the Republic of Macedonia is the Republic of Macedonia and we support that name, stated Meto Koloski - president of the United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) that is leading a delegation of 18 congressional staffers.

http://www.idividi.com.mk/English/Ma...136/index.html


And you could have used a better word than "Immigrants" how about "Diaspora" or is that word only used for your organisation. Just to clarify any confusion, I am no immigrant, But i do support MHRMI and AMHRC Launch Ad Campaign Demanding End to Name Negotiations.


Admin.......Please move this post to the UMD thread if you think it should not be here. cheers.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The Maknews administrator, a vehement supporter of the UMD, has continually harped on about how the AMHRC/MHMRI didn't do enough to involve the UMD. This is despite the fact that the AMHRC/MHMRI clearly put the invitation out there to all other Macedonian organisations who were willing to participate. The UMD didn't respond. Maknews believes that the UMD deserve a special individual welcome. The rest of the Macedonian community disagrees. Since when did one organisation take precedence above the interests of the overall Macedonian community?

[Vangelovski]

The Maknews administrator, a vehement supporter of the UMD, has continually harped on about how the AMHRC/MHMRI didn't do enough to involve the UMD. This is despite the fact that the AMHRC/MHMRI clearly put the invitation out there to all other Macedonian organisations who were willing to participate. The UMD didn't respond. Maknews believes that the UMD deserve a special individual welcome. The rest of the Macedonian community disagrees. Since when did one organisation take precedence above the interests of the overall Macedonian community?

I'm still wondering how Maknews (self-declared EU/NATO 'hater') reconciles his support for UMD who have listed EU/NATO as their number one priority.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I'm still wondering how Maknews (self-declared EU/NATO 'hater') reconciles his support for UMD who have listed EU/NATO as their number one priority.

Quite simply, he doesn't. Instead, he just ignores the contradiction and his own hypocrisy altogether. All you ever hear from him is "euroflith", "eurotrash", etc, yet he is fully supportive of the UMD's position with regard to entering this organisation.

[Phoenix]

I'm still wondering how Maknews (self-declared EU/NATO 'hater') reconciles his support for UMD who have listed EU/NATO as their number one priority.

Maknews and UMD are united by a shamelessly subservient compulsion to kiss the arse of America, whilst turning a blind eye to all of the American evil committed against the Macedonian nation and the Macedonian people...

[Risto the Great]

I think it would be very hard to live in the USA and accept that your own country is the cause of much of the conflict around the world today. Better/easier to believe it is "helping" these countries away from the "axis of evil".

Maknews is kind of like those stari who say "good on you young boys, so capable at such a young age ... keep up the good work". The stari were saying it at the UMD talkfest here in Adelaide even before any attempt was made to understand the UMetoD ideology. Basically, a childish naivety that refrains from ever questioning the reason for UMetoD's existence.

[George S.]

you allways needed a united effort good one guys.

[fyrOM]

Looks like the tide was too much to hold back…guess they want to join the ranks.

UMD: The constitutional name to remain

http://www.vest.com.mk/?ItemID=7C22F7B7159AD5429BEF7D786960BACE

08/17/2010
"We are part of a campaign of emigrants who have recently called for suspension of negotiations with Greece, but have the same attitude - the name of Macedonia is Macedonia and we encourage that name," said Meto Kolovski, president of the United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) iselenichka organization from the United States yesterday with the help of US-Turkish coalition of U.S. first time in Macedonia led advisers to U.S. congressmen. After meeting with representatives from government, Democrats and eight Republicans desettemina should know the views on the Macedonian name dispute with Greece to boost Macedonian lobby in Congress.
Kolovski expected Congress to hear the facts in Macedonia and help around the membership of Macedonia in NATO and the EU under its constitutional name.
"Our focus is lobbying for a NATO summit in November in Lisbon," said Kolovski.
Travel costs to Macedonia for the so-called staferi in Congress, which amounted to about $ 100,000, has met American-Turkish coalition, a partner at UMD. After meeting with ministers and the head of state George Ivanov, the delegation, which passed and 15 representatives from the US-Turkish organization and university professors and businessmen from Turkey today leaves for Turkey.
"In America there is a penchant for Greek and Armenian views of history," President of the US-Turkish coalition Linken Mekkerdi, indicating the resolution adopted by Congress for the Turkish genocide of Armenians. (C. K. D.)

[Bill77]

Not quite right Oz,

Read it again Meto says ""Не сме дел од кампањата"
Translate- "Not part of the campaign"

[Currency Trader]

The Maknews administrator, a vehement supporter of the UMD, has continually harped on about how the AMHRC/MHMRI didn't do enough to involve the UMD. This is despite the fact that the AMHRC/MHMRI clearly put the invitation out there to all other Macedonian organisations who were willing to participate. The UMD didn't respond. Maknews believes that the UMD deserve a special individual welcome. The rest of the Macedonian community disagrees. Since when did one organisation take precedence above the interests of the overall Macedonian community?

I'm not sure if this is true, but curiously asking this question myself, individuals at Maknews suggests that UMD would not have been involved with the campaign regardless.

The reason being claimed, or suggested, boils down to a member of UMD whose support is very important. This supposed member would withdraw its support for UMD if UMD joined in on the campaign with AMHRC/MHMRI. Supposedly this member have had some prior dealings with AMHRC/MHMRI.

[TrueMacedonian]

CT which member are you referring to? Would this member happen to be a part of this list of names given here - http://www.macedonia2025.com/about.php

Mike Zafirovski, Mitre Kutanovski, President Crvenkovski, and John Bitove Jr.