Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI)

[sf.]

I left a comment on A1 to test if they'll post it.

[Prolet]

If its anti-vlada they will post it for sure

[Risto the Great]

Perhaps I was having a bad evening. I am sure the negative comments are part of a dedicated campaign to derail any decent future for Macedonia.

I also have no doubt that such negativity towards Diaspora Macedonians exists in Macedonia. My experiences during my extended stays in Bitola suggests a much more positive mentality. I would hate to think people are willing to trade away our identity due to spite!

It is even more important to drag this debate out into the open and I still fully support the initiative. Based on the volume of comments on websites, it is stirring up emotions and that is extremely necessary. It is about time some reality cuts through!

I do not know enough about Macedonian media. Is there a single newspaper in Macedonia that is pro-Macedonia?

[sf.]

OK, so my comment has been posted on the A1 site. Right at the bottom at #66. No one reads that far down though.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Excellent work AMHRC and MHMRI.

Ignore the sellouts that post negative comments, traitors are nothing new, particularly vocal one's like that dupen na dolno idiot.

The problem is the Diaspora LOVE to go back in the summer and just fucking show off how rich they are. The fraeri. It's pathetic. Crnci cela godina da zastedi za odmor with his Audi TT na kredit ali covece on e fraer. See I hate people like that and if I were still in Macedonia and a mocko like that dosol da mi soli pamet I would tell him to ff off back where his come from.

You know what the problem is Jankovska? That the Macedonians in RoM actually believe that every single Macedonian from the Diaspora is how you have described them. You speak as if there are no "fraeri" in RoM and they all come from the Diaspora, is that what you honestly believe? If not, what is the problem? Macedonians from the Diaspora cannot be proud when in Macedonia? They should all keep their mouths shut while in Macedonia? I hate generalisations, I know perfectly well about the people from the Diaspora you are referring to and what sort of idiots they can be, and for that I agree completely, but this is a two-way street, and some Macedonians in RoM need to snap out of their little fantasy world where only they count as Macedonians and the rest of us are mere foreigners. Macedonians live the world over. The hypocrisy never ends, like we are to blame that our parents left as economic migrants when they did, like some of these Macedonians in RoM that make these very comments wouldn't sellout Macedonia in a heartbeat. Yet here we are, the 'foreigners' that left, still fighting for the Macedonian Cause abroad. By the very definitions that are applied to Macedonians in the Diaspora by those in RoM, we shouldn't even care what happens to Macedonia. But, we do, of course we do, because we are supposed to be in this together, as Macedonians, collectively.

Macedonians in RoM should ask themselves these two questions:

1) What have the Macedonians in the Diaspora done to make your life worse?

2) What have the Macedonians in the Diaspora done to make your life better?


I can assure you that there will be more answers for question 2.

[Phoenix]

Excellent work AMHRC and MHMRI.

Ignore the sellouts that post negative comments, traitors are nothing new, particularly vocal one's like that dupen na dolno idiot.


You know what the problem is Jankovska? That the Macedonians in RoM actually believe that every single Macedonian from the Diaspora is how you have described them. You speak as if there are no "fraeri" in RoM and they all come from the Diaspora, is that what you honestly believe? If not, what is the problem? Macedonians from the Diaspora cannot be proud when in Macedonia? They should all keep their mouths shut while in Macedonia? I hate generalisations, I know perfectly well about the people from the Diaspora you are referring to and what sort of idiots they can be, and for that I agree completely, but this is a two-way street, and some Macedonians in RoM need to snap out of their little fantasy world where only they count as Macedonians and the rest of us are mere foreigners. Macedonians live the world over. The hypocrisy never ends, like we are to blame that our parents left as economic migrants when they did, like some of these Macedonians in RoM that make these very comments wouldn't sellout Macedonia in a heartbeat. Yet here we are, the 'foreigners' that left, still fighting for the Macedonian Cause abroad. By the very definitions that are applied to Macedonians in the Diaspora by those in RoM, we shouldn't even care what happens to Macedonia. But, we do, of course we do, because we are supposed to be in this together, as Macedonians, collectively.

Macedonians in RoM should ask themselves these two questions:

1) What have the Macedonians in the Diaspora done to make your life worse?

2) What have the Macedonians in the Diaspora done to make your life better?


I can assure you that there will be more answers for question 2.

Nicely put SoM...

I think there's too many bananas in Macedonia who think that money grows on trees in the diaspora...unfortunately its a widely held belief, hence the resentment found in some of those comments.

I had a similar response to RtG when reading some of the comments for the first time, I was angry with the anti-diaspora remarks and I found the apathy towards the initiative from the AMHRC & MHMRI particularly disturbing.

One thing that this situation highlights for me is the dedication and committment to the cause shown by the good folk at the AMHRC and MHMRI...

[Jankovska]

Excellent work AMHRC and MHMRI.

Ignore the sellouts that post negative comments, traitors are nothing new, particularly vocal one's like that dupen na dolno idiot.


You know what the problem is Jankovska? That the Macedonians in RoM actually believe that every single Macedonian from the Diaspora is how you have described them. You speak as if there are no "fraeri" in RoM and they all come from the Diaspora, is that what you honestly believe? If not, what is the problem? Macedonians from the Diaspora cannot be proud when in Macedonia? They should all keep their mouths shut while in Macedonia? I hate generalisations, I know perfectly well about the people from the Diaspora you are referring to and what sort of idiots they can be, and for that I agree completely, but this is a two-way street, and some Macedonians in RoM need to snap out of their little fantasy world where only they count as Macedonians and the rest of us are mere foreigners. Macedonians live the world over. The hypocrisy never ends, like we are to blame that our parents left as economic migrants when they did, like some of these Macedonians in RoM that make these very comments wouldn't sellout Macedonia in a heartbeat. Yet here we are, the 'foreigners' that left, still fighting for the Macedonian Cause abroad. By the very definitions that are applied to Macedonians in the Diaspora by those in RoM, we shouldn't even care what happens to Macedonia. But, we do, of course we do, because we are supposed to be in this together, as Macedonians, collectively.

Macedonians in RoM should ask themselves these two questions:

1) What have the Macedonians in the Diaspora done to make your life worse?

2) What have the Macedonians in the Diaspora done to make your life better?


I can assure you that there will be more answers for question 2.

SoM I am in no way defending the Macedonians in RoM, I was just trying to paint a picture of why things are the way they are. In my opinion we have idiots on both sides that have brought the Macedonian cause to a standstill just because eden ne moze da se nafali kolkav k** ima a drugiot ne moze od zavist i ljubomora to see the bigger picture.
Both sides need to see the bigger picture but that's makedonska rabota, prvi sme kad treba da se ljubomori i zavidi, nikad ne nema kad treba da si pomogneme.
I know all of the Diaspora people are not like that. I never ever behave differently than I would anywhere, but I have been called stranec, i sto imas ti da se mesas i lesno ti e tebe so Britanski pasos blah blah. They don't see that I spend my money there by sending to my family, I advertise the country to people here as much as I can and I spend shit lots when I go back. I understand the poverty there, I want to help and whenever i can i still do but I still have people judge me. I understand both sides and I accuse both sides for the situation we are in. The newer generations seem to be changing this trend so fingers crossed we will get rid off this stupidity.

[Bratot]

Да за ЕУ и за НАТО, но без промена на името

Ние се залагаме за влегување во ЕУ и во НАТО, но без дополнителни услови, како што е промената на името. Преговорите треба да прекинат зашто со тоа покажуваме дека сме подготвени на компромис, што не е точно. Мора да покажеме дека за идентитет никој не преговара - нагласи Славко Манговски, координатор на Македонското меѓународно движење за човекови права од Канада.

http://www.novamakedonija.com.mk/NewsDetal.asp?vest=72910101387&id=9&prilog=0&setIzdanie=22046

[Prolet]

Well Said SOM

A1 is an Anti Macedonian Website, the fact is that most Macedonians have somebody in the Diaspora whether its a distant cousin or uncle or even a friend, so its more then clear that people are provoking in anyway they can. I've had people personally tell me until we pay tax we shouldnt vote while at the same time they dont realize that countries like Ireland,Israel,Greece,Italy,Croatia etc wouldnt exist if it wernt for their diaspora.

Its disappointing and disgusting to read those comments, but we are smart enough to know the full story as now it seems that Gruevski is being made to be the scape goat again because he is building closer ties with our Diaspora. We all know that its not perfect but at least we have a start to building proper relations where as before the previous governments including Ljubco's one didnt give a toss about the Diaspora.

[Bratot]

More:

http://mn.mk/iselenici-region/2296-Da-prekinat-pregovorite-so-Grcija-baraat-organizatorite-na-kampanjata-Nikoj-nema-pravo-da-pregovara-za-moeto-ime

[Jankovska]

OK, so my comment has been posted on the A1 site. Right at the bottom at #66. No one reads that far down though.

I have had many comments posted on A1 that is why I don't believe in this people paid to do it but in Macedonia you never know

[Bratot]

I have had many comments posted on A1 that is why I don't believe in this people paid to do it but in Macedonia you never know

Depends of course on what subject and what actually you post.

Knowing your negative attitude on the Government I'm not surprised they posted your comment
I'm not saying this in a bad way.

I have my story with A1 commentaries and many other media, but I wonder if there is successful way to fight the powerful media from a position of consumer, maybe boycott? Well.. that stay as an option but it's hard to convince the majority of the people to follow such step.

Social engineering.

And example of paid propagator:

Dragan, MVR Skopje

Ocigledno i od poveke je deka gruevski namerno ja provocira Grcija so otvaranje na ova prasanje. Ne velam deka je negativno no neje vreme za pokrenuvanje na ova zesko prasanje. sekomu mu je poznata agresivnata i nacionalisticka politika na Grckata diplomatija vo poslednite 45 godini. vsusnost toa neje i demokratija tuku politika na nekolku grcko-arapski familii vo grcija. Ako Gruevski i ponatamu pritiska so ovie prasanja naskoro ke treba da ocekuvame podpolno zatvranaje na granicata prema sosedna grcija. Sto samo ke znaci uste eden cekor vo prodlabocuvanjeto na politickata sostojba na balkanot sto vo ovoj moment e mnogu komplicirana za onie koi dobro ja pratat. iako izgleda se mirno, no neje e taka. Mozna eksplozija na balkanot je verovatna so 100 % sto grcija ke saka da ja iskoristi za mozno novo prekrojuvanje na granicite na balkanot zaedno so bugarija i albanija.

04.07.2008 07:20

http://www.vecer.com.mk/default.asp?ItemID=C591F93133FDF24FA6AA2DC4067DFED8

Од: Dragan, MVR - Skopje Датум: 26.03.2008 07:51:52

Vo toj Period Gospodinot Boskovski kako Visok funkcioner na Sluzbata za Drzavna bezbednost imase isto taka sobrano dovolno podatoci za valkaniot biznis na UCK zaedno so CIA - Trgovija so covecki organi za bogatiot zapad, a oruzje za vozvrat. Treba da se zaprasame, dali Gosdpodinot Boskovski je zrtva na CIA, bidejki istiot kako Minister za Vnatresni raboti, kopija na ovie dokazi gi ima dostaveno na odredeni zapadnoevropski agencii za razuznuvanje. Boskovski voopsto ne bil svesten deka so toa toj si go samiot navlekol gnevot na CIA. Mozebi ako Boskovski nesto izjavi vo vrska so ovoj slucaj vo Haag i ke se promeni celata optuzba protiv nevino zatvoreniot Boskovski. veruvam komentarot ke bide objaven i od nekoj ke bide prenesen na negvata branitelka edina Rasidovik. Predpostavuvam i deka Gospodinot Boskovski i neznae deka vo svetit e dignata golema prasina okolu ovoj slucaj trgovija so covecki organi od strana na UCK. Prenesete go komentarot i ke go vidite samite efektot koj ke se postign

http://www.utrinski.com.mk/?ItemID=A4521168BA80C647AE5925FD66B37503

Од: Dragan, MVR Skopje
Датум: 10.12.2007 07:25:02

Dragi gragani na R.Makedonija i dragi Politicari. Do koga pogresni informacii...... Koga ednas za sekogas ke ja sfatite realnosta. Jankulovska neje nikakva Ministerka. Taa e samo obicna marionetka - kukla vo racete na Saso Mijalkov. Isto kako i Gruevski sto ne e

http://www.utrinski.com.mk/default.asp?ItemID=9EB112659B739E40BF902FE49A7EA795

His effort to slander the persons he constantly mention is not coincidence.


There are plenty other examples such as the Mitre od Dolnodupeni:

http://www.google.pl/search?hl=pl&q=+Mitre+od+Dolnodupeni&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

If I had more time I would haunt few other paid activist as those two examples.

I would recomend some book reading about propaganda methodology and how this kind of activity is directed on specific topics, but it has been a while since I was reading such literature and I don't remember specific titles.

Those who have time and are interested in this could simply pick one subject and follow the commentaries on several most popular medias, not only many of them are copy paste but in many occassions these activist show attachment to their virtual identity and use the same nicknames. The few you will notice repeating on every medium.

[Jankovska]

Maybe you are right Bratot, it is strange I have to admit. I have have posted on A1 many times and always had it published.

[El Bre]

The diaspora has been the fuel that has kept the flame of Macedonian identity lit over the past 100 years. They've enjoyed the freedom to be Macedonians and have exercised that freedom proudly. No one should underestimate the contribution of the Macedonian diaspora when considering the existence of the Macedonian identity today, nor should that contribution be trivialized for political gain.

[Bratot]

Unfortunatelly as I read you... these kind of cheap provocations seems to hit the projected psychological target too easily and the real topic has been defocused already.