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What a joke. I can't believe the Macedonian people will allow this pathetic show to continue.
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I cannot believe I just read that. It is time for a government in exile. It can be done. It's time.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.comComment
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Needs the reset button pushed.Originally posted by Risto the Great View PostVerata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.
Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.Comment
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It would seem that is exactly what Ivanov believes he has just done, a 12 month reset.Originally posted by VMRO View Post
I wonder how he envisions things will turn out this time around?Last edited by Tomche Makedonche; 04-13-2016, 12:27 AM.“There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario SavioComment
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The one thing that Macedonians have failed to understand is that you cannot have peace without justice. Peace at all costs has been driving them for the past 25 years and ironically, its this idea that prevents them from obtaining any peace.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John AdamsComment
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This is true.Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
I read that some of the protestors were chanting "No Justice, No Peace." I don't know if they meant it in the same way as you do. I'm assuming that's what they meant.Comment
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I would say this move by DPNE is simply a response to Zajko/SDS’ refusal to go ahead with elections on the new June date proposed (having already gone against the agreement when he refused the original April date), which was one of the main stipulations that saw Gruevski agree to the Przino agreement.
Its clear what Zajko’s objective is here, to postpone elections, keeping Gruevski out of office and an interim or technical government in place as long as he can in order for the special prosecution to steadily reveal the corruptive behaviour of the regime and ultimately find Gruevski guilty of corruption. Its only with this eventuation, that is removing Gruevski from the political landscape all together, that Zajko (who is clearly just as corrupt as Gruevski, if not worse) would stand the slightest chance of obtaining a favourable result at elections (which will no doubt be riddled with electoral fraud as per the norm). Gruevski, through his own self motivated agenda, has made himself synonymous with DPNE, without Gruevski at the head, the party is likely to loose its majority favour or confidence with the general public, hence why DPNE cannot afford to allow Zajko the time required to succeed in ousting Gruevski and would want to wrap up elections as soon as possible.
So once again our political leaders prefer to play games with our country for their own self interests rather than govern to serve the best interests of the people.
As long as the Macedonian people allow this political culture to prevail, how can they ever expect to have justice in Macedonia?“There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario SavioComment
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The scariest part of all is that despite all the wrongdoings of both DPMNE and SDSM, Macedonians will still vote for them on the next elections (whenever they're held).Just look at the last elections in 2014 - 68,3% of the 1120744 voters gave their vote for these 2 parties.Or if you exclude the albanian votes,that percentage rises to over 80%!With this mindset one of these 2 parties will again win and will continue dragging Macedonia to the bottom like the past 25 years.I guess we deserve no better either.”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
― George OrwellComment
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Tomche:
I'm not sure if it is a response. Anyone remember the timeline? when did the Constitutional Court give the president the power to pardon criminals: before or after SDSM pulled out of the elections? I think Grujo and co. were trying to find a way to avoid prosecution and investigation since the special prosecution team began its work, and that it's not so much a response to Zaev pulling out of the election, but just a bunch of DPNME party elites looking out for each other.
Either way, it's all too disturbing. Clearly, Zaev knows he can't get into power through a vote (rigged or not). It seems like he won't stop short of throwing the country into chaos to get into power, and Grujo won't stop short of absolute dictatorship to hold onto power.Comment
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That about sums it up.Originally posted by vicsinad View Post”A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices”
― George OrwellComment
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My understanding is that the original date for elections which was noted on the Przino agreement was 24 April 2016. Gruevski was to resign from his position on the 15 January 2016 on the basis that early elections would be held on 24 April 2016 (120 days after his resignation as stipulated in the agreement). However not long after Gruevski's resignation, Zaev refused to participate on the set date demanding it be pushed back (stating that conditions for fair elections were yet to be put in place). This went against the agreement. When DPNE saw that the elections were unlikely to take place on the original date, they had no option but to agree to postpone the elections, pushing them back to 5 June 2016, shortly after this extension DPNE questioned the scope of the presidential pardon under the constitution, in what I only assume was an indication to Zaev as to what avenue they will take if he again refused to take part in early elections as per the agreement which saw Gruevski resign from his position. As anticipated by DPNE, Zaev once again has now refused to participate on the extended date, proving that he has no intention of going ahead with the stipulations of the agreement and in response to this, DPNE used the presidential pardon which essentially sees the basis of the agreement nullified. In other words, if you won't hold up your end of the bargain, we won't either.Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
Irrespective of the timeline of events, I agree that what you state is just as much a factor as anything else, they were always going to look for an angle to safeguard themselves from the situation.
As I said, this entire situation, as always, is nothing but a game to our supposed leaders.Last edited by Tomche Makedonche; 04-14-2016, 07:59 AM.“There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario SavioComment
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For anyone interested, Dedo Aleko actually started a good thread a while ago about the Przino agreement which you can find here:
“There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario SavioComment
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Absolutely, this is the game they are playing. Zaev argued that he's not participating in elections because DPNE has not started fulfilling its obligations for reforms, but the deeper reason (as stated by several of you) is to stall until conditions are right for him to enter power with the assistance of external means.Originally posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
I'm waiting to see protestors who are calling for all sides to step aside. I see three main criminals/traitors leading the country into this turmoil: Ahmeti, Gruevski, and Zaev. And I see that each one has their hardcore loyalists. Although I'd like to see a non-partisan Macedonian movement, it looks like one of the two is going to happen: a) violent suppression by DPNME or b) international intervention, leading to Zaev or a EU imposed government (or a combination of both). Both would be disastrous for Macedonia in their own different ways, and won't actually solve anything.
Meanwhile, you'll hear calls from Ahmeti's Albanians, Bulgaria and Greece saying Macedonia is an unstable country and they'll offer their own solutions and threats.Comment
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I think it's fair to say that this is what the majority of us here have been waiting for, especially since it's obvious neither side has any intention whatsoever in working together to resolve these issues, but then again, who is there to take their place?Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
If there was ever a time for someone else to stand up and be heard, it's now.“There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario SavioComment
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Most likely related to the migration issue, but in times like these, everything might need to be questioned. Did the aircraft really enter Macedonian territory? If so, was it just an accident? Or is Greece trying stir the waters?
Macedonia says Greek military plane violated its airspace
A Greek military airplane entered Macedonia's airspace at 10:30 CET on Thursday, Skopje-based TV Telma has reported.
The media outlet identified the plane as "a Phantom" - i.e., an F-4 - adding it flew about one kilometer into the Macedonian space.
The jet was flying in a group deployed over Idomeni, on the border between the two countries, as part of refugee crisis control efforts in northern Greece.
Macedonian Army sources told the station they registered several Hellenic Air Force flights near the border, while soldiers made "visual observations from the ground" and concluded that one jet had crossed the border.
According to the broadcaster, the army is currently determining how far the plane had flown into Macedonia's airspace.Comment
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