Macedonian Church Dispute in Australia

[Soldier of Macedon]

If you are so positive that he is wrong, perhaps you can enlighten us?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Was that a pass for you ZAS, or still too moody?

[ZAS]

Was that a pass for you ZAS, or still too moody?

Sorry SOM I am not an acountant or Lawyer, so my knowledge is maybe worse than INDIGEN'S.

[Rogi]

Prolet and SoM, you both are the only Melbournians posting in the latter part of this thread and perhaps the only ones who may have an understanding of the specifities involving particular characters mentioned in the thread and the wishy washy positions which have changed so often it is difficult to follow. That is, unless you are paying particular attention to such things.

I think what support certain individuals once had, have now waned and in fact reversed. With good reason. Call it a mini revolution in the Macedonian community in Victoria, or perhaps, the business end of the transition to an organised community fueled, finally, by an ideology.

For me though, the attempted sabotage of the 2008 Macedonian protest in Melbourne (this is well documented and well evidenced - I am quite meticulous with such things, preparing dossiers on all that is relevant), which we worked on day and night to organise successfully, is where the tipping point was met.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Rogi, I remember when I asked Abraham if the Macedonians in NSW would gather and come to Melbourne in support of that protest, just the way that Macedonians from VIC gathered and came to the Canberra potest, he told me that they would have 'their own' protest when 'they' were ready. I will make this loud and clear - I am not accusing him of attempting to sabotage the protest in VIC, and I do share his sentiment with regard to Petar and his damage to the MOC community in Australia.

The reason they refused to support the protest in VIC was because Petar and/or some of his followers would also be there, is that correct or not? If that is the case, then would their presence (of both sides of the dispute) at Gruevski's visit not be contradictory? Does that have anything to do with what you are making reference to?

[Prolet]

Rogi, We cant take away anything from Ico since he was the one who organized the protest, he was on the radio for months telling people to join the rally and he interviewed people like Aco Taleski to fire up our people to join the rally. From what i recall there were people from interstate, but the number wasnt so big, like SOM said it all mixed up when there were fears that the Bishop was going to attend the rally and give a speech when infact the Bishop was not even in Australia at the time and Vlado Janevski was there from what i can recall. The Macedonian Consulate and Embassy pulled out due to the fact that they are not allowed to interfere with domestic affairs.

The Protest went ahead and big numbers attended even though there could have been more however i think we got a solid number.

For me though, the attempted sabotage of the 2008 Macedonian protest in Melbourne (this is well documented and well evidenced - I am quite meticulous with such things, preparing dossiers on all that is relevant), which we worked on day and night to organise successfully, is where the tipping point was met.

Rogi, What attempted Sabotage?? The protest went ahead, it was promoted all over the media who would sabotage it?? Its all water under the bridge since it was never publicly stated like the call to protest against Nikola Gruevski's visit to Australia, maybe something was said behind closed doors however it was more then clear that the protest was going ahead, unless the Greek Community had something to do with it, it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

SOM, Whos Abraham?? Why would this person have a say on what goes in the community in Sydney or NSW in general?? The protests in Canberra only drew 4000 on a Sunday, it got a little TV exposure but still its better then nothing..

[Rogi]

SoM, my comment has nothing to do with anyone from Sydney, to my knowlege the Sydney community was supportive of the protest.

Ico Najdovski organized the protest? Give me a break. He can only dream of taking creit for that one.

He came to 3 meetings of 40 (I have all the minutes) and WE asked Aco Taleski and others to announce it on the Macedonian community radio, which they did, proudly.

3 Days before the protest was held, it was almost cancelled because of an attempted sabotage, with someone trying to pull the rug from under the organizors. That was, to say the least, a revelation of the character and agenda of certain individuals.

[Prolet]

Rogi, Im not suggesting that Ico organized the protest all on his own, you cant organize a trip to the pokies by yourself let alone a massive protest rally however he played a big part in it since he constantly mentioned it on his radio and Zlate Nicevski was always on the line giving information since he was the president of the Macedonian Victorian Community and if you recall he even made a speech at the front of Parliament house.

Rogi, I must say that Aco Taleski is a real patriot his heart burns for Macedonia, he is one of the most passionate people around he certainly wasn't the wrong choice thats for sure, he is a fantastic individual no doubt about it.

I cant speculate about what went on behind closed doors, there might have been some threats made a few days before the protest however it wouldnt surprise me if it came from the Greek Community Leaders i dont believe a fellow Macedonian or Macedonians would even think about stopping the protest especially after being built up for so many months before hand. There was even talk of an airplane with a Pro Macedonian Message however due to the new laws being enforced since the 9/11 a special license needed to be taken out and it was just too expensive in the end.

[Soldier of Macedon]

SoM, my comment has nothing to do with anyone from Sydney, to my knowlege the Sydney community was supportive of the protest.

Really, can you show me some of the promotional material they used to urge Macedonians to attend? And any figures of the amount that attended? And how much of that amount was due to our friend's support?

3 Days before the protest was held, it was almost cancelled because of an attempted sabotage, with someone trying to pull the rug from under the organizors.

Now, isn't that interesting....WHY? Is it relevant to the church dispute?

Mr "Bradley Pappas", at Maknews Forums you were exposed as a FRAUD!

ZAS, is this true? Or am I asking too much for your honesty, even in such simple questions?

[ZAS]

ZAS, is this true? Or am I asking too much for your honesty, even in such simple questions?[/QUOTE]

No it is not TRUE, this INDIGEN I think was banned somewhere ELSE.
I have never joined Mak News because of The administrators of that FORUM are at WAR with our Church, it makes me sick reading their hog-wash.

[ZAS]

Mr "Bradley Pappas", at Maknews Forums you were exposed as a FRAUD!
You claimed to know people that never heard of you, amongst other lies, and were banned for it.

Secondly, you claim to be a "student" of Zhivko Apostolovski, whom you asserted was an academic, which was also found to be another lie. Thus, IMO, you are using his (real) name in order to denigrate him by acting like an IGNORANT BABOON.

Thirdly, all your actions point, IMO, to an agent provocateur. So are you a Tataroman, Grkoman, or?

Lets feed your ignorance with the following excerpt:

You are WRONG on all FRONTS.
I am not a FRAUD.
Mr Apostolovski was a MENTOR of mine for Quite some time.
I have never or ever will put SHAME and DISHOUNER to Mr Apostolovski.
You on the other hand are the only OBJECTOR to me using Apostolovski's Tag.

BY the WAY That church you pray at is that Very Very Very HONOURABLE president still in control.

Property in OZ can only be bought in Company or trust as well as individuals, and not incorporated Associations you BABOON.
Stick to SLANDERING our VLADIKA Petar, This seems to be your area of expertise, who knows you might get LUCKY and get EXCOMUNICATED.

[Prolet]

ZAS, Whos Z Apostolovski?? What does he stand for??

Indigen, When have you been to the Maknews Forum?? I've never seen you before, are you sure you are not confusing ZAS with somebody else???? If he was Bradley Pappas im sure Risto and SOM would know about it, they are good mods.

ZAS, Why dont they excommunicate our enemies like Greeks,Bulgarians?? Why dont they excommunicate animals like Bojko Borisov,Krassimir Karakachanov,Bozhidar Dimitrov and others who are anti-Macedonian??

[Soldier of Macedon]

ZAS, do you support Petar's destructive actions?

[Prolet]

SOM, What do you think about Indigen posting information about Bishop Petar being a pro Serbian Bishop?? I was accused of attacking the people who are against the Bishop id much rather we all find a solution and move on with our lives. We've been standing still for a decade now and we havnt gotten very far with the church issue.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Prolet, what do you think about it?