Macedonian Church Dispute in Australia

[George S.]

sounds familiar they never consulted about the slav prefix etc.Its been started without consultation so that they can easily ram things down
without asking.
So really we are not properly represented both as a diaspora & as Australian macedonians.

[Risto the Great]

I wonder if this "MCC" will be able to prove any Macedonian organisations (other than Petar's) are behind this. If they can't (which sounds very likely), then it looks like it will end up going the same way as that Property Bill. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

[Bij]

now this is a great post, Vangelovski.

[Vangelovski]

now this is a great post, Vangelovski.

I hope you take the time to contact the NSW Government.

[Risto the Great]

BUMP

I have re-read much of this thread this morning.
I recommend any Australian Macedonian does the same.

[George S.]

I have read the articles i have come to the conclusion this cown peter has got to go as he has caused so much irreparable damage to the churches in australia.All he wants to do is take what is not his.It is the hard working peoples property..Why can't he admit it that he is totally irrellevant to the scheme of things & leave.The trail of aftermath damage is ample evidence of what this clown & his followers have dome.All he has achieved is divide everyone up & POISON PEOPLE'S MIND.hE HAS CONTRIBUTED NOTHING BUT HATE amongst the christian brethern..`

[julie]

Petar with his take over for personally held in his name churches, together with his lackeys, have contributed to the division of the Macedonian people in Australia. The ultimate goal to create division amongst a large minority within the Macedonian diaspora has been achieved

Apparently, that is what he is teaching the bible says and God says, go forth and STEAL
AND don't unite people but cause hatred and division

Stupid prick will burn in his own hell

[aleksandrov]

Macedonian Orthodox Community of Australia - Q & A

The Macedonian Orthodox Community of Australia (formerly Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney) invites all interested Macedonians to its upcoming questions and answers session.

Q. WHAT IS IT ABOUT?
A. MOCA's organisational reforms and activities towards just and productive self-empowerment of the Macedonian Australian community, and Macedonians in general.

Q. WHO SHOULD COME?
A. Anyone who is genuinely interested in meaningful questions and answers about the predetermined topic. Particularly those who are concerned by all the malicious propaganda about MOCA and wish to check the facts. The introductory presentation will be in Macedonian, but questions will be answered in whatever language they are asked in, as long as it is Macedonian or English. All questions will be answered, as long as they are clear and respectful of other people's turn to ask a question. If we decide not to disclose certain confidential or strategic information, we will say so explicitly.

Q. WHO SHOULD STAY AWAY?
A. Anyone who cannot help being disruptive or unseemly. Also, anybody who is not prepared to sign the attendance book or to provide ID upon entry.

Q. WHEN?
A. This Tuesday, 13 December 2011, 7.00pm.

Q. WHERE?
A. Macedonian Community Hall "Vasil II Makedonski", 79 Cabramatta Rd. Cabramatta NSW 2166 (Sydney), next to the "St. Nikola" church.

Q. IS THERE A DRESS CODE?
A. Smart casual to professional. No sunglasses. No fake revolvers or daggers. You may be on camera.

Igor Avramovski ALEKSANDROV
Executive Officer
Macedonian Orthodox Community of Australia

[Vangelovski]

Sounds like it will be an interesting evening. Will you be able to provide us (for the benefit of those who cannot attend) with a brief rundown afterwards?

[aleksandrov]

Sounds like it will be an interesting evening. Will you be able to provide us (for the benefit of those who cannot attend) with a brief rundown afterwards?

You should be there. You are not that far away. Your contributions would be very valuable.

I don't think there will be any written summary until we've conducted more similar Q & A sessions in other parts of Sydney and maybe other Australian cities.

[Bill77]

All questions will be answered, as long as they are clear and respectful of other people's turn to ask a question. If we decide not to disclose certain confidential or strategic information, we will say so explicitly.

No not all "depending if we feel them to be confidential or strategic information".

What can be so confidential that should be kept from the community?
The community that expects honesty and transparency in particular to something that belongs to them. Unless they are personal questions, nothing should be held as confidential absolute nothing.

[aleksandrov]

No not all "depending if we feel them to be confidential or strategic information".

What can be so confidential that should be kept from the community?
The community that expects honesty and transparency in particular to something that belongs to them. Unless they are personal questions, nothing should be held as confidential absolute nothing.

Confidentiality is regulated by laws and regulations, including the organisation's own constitution, and internal policies and regulations that have been adopted in accordance with the constitution.

Disclosure of strategic information is affected by directors' legal duties, including the general duty to act in the best interests of the organisation.

The event is public, meaning that anybody can attend, including adversaries of the organisation and people who will share information with adversaries.

I suspect you are aware that even in the case of the Federal Government, which is legally accountable to all citizens, rather than only voluntary members, as is the case of incorporated organisations, Ministers and public servants have a duty to keep certain information confidential in certain circumstances.

Answering a question is not the same as telling a person exactly what he wants to hear. If you ask me to disclose confidential information to you, I can either evade your question, which would be disrespectful, or I can answer you by saying that it is information that I won't disclose to you in the circumstances, which is a more honest and respectful answer.

The Macedonian Orthodox Community of Australia is an incorporated body without share holders. It is a separate legal person in its own right. It belongs to nobody but itself. The rights of its members are regulated by law, including a duly adopted constitution. Having said that, you are welcome to attend the meeting and find out for yourself whether there is any other Macedonian community organisation whose directors and officers conduct themselves more honestly or more transparently.

[Bill77]

Confidentiality is regulated by laws and regulations, including the organisation's own constitution, and internal policies and regulations that have been adopted in accordance with the constitution.

Disclosure of strategic information is affected by directors' legal duties, including the general duty to act in the best interests of the organisation.

Yeh, it all sounds nice. Well the MOC and UMD can say the same thing then. This is just crap so one can save his/their own arss. Something that can be used as a shield when there is something to hide.

The event is public, meaning that anybody can attend, including adversaries of the organisation and people who will share information with adversaries.

If everything is above board, you should not fear adversaries.

I can either evade your question, which would be disrespectful, or I can answer you by saying that it is information that I won't disclose to you in the circumstances, which is a more honest and respectful answer.

Mate, answering by saying it is information that you won't disclose, is evading. There is no difference.

Infact Its more disrespectful giving me technical crap like you did above and expect me to accept it to exonerate MOCA or MOC or UMD, from being someone that is honest and transparent?

Again, if everything is above board, nothing should be held from being disclosed even if its in front of adversaries. Unless ofcoarse they are personal questions and have nothing to do with church matters.

The Macedonian Orthodox Community of Australia is an incorporated body without share holders. It is a separate legal person in its own right. It belongs to nobody but itself.

If i am understanding this right, since it belongs to nobody but itself, Then it doesn't need the community finance and support, it self can look after itself.

Having said that, you are welcome to attend the meeting and find out for yourself whether there is any other Macedonian community organisation whose directors and officers conduct themselves more honestly or more transparently.

Alexandrov,
It is not a contest as to who conducts themselves more or less honestly or more or less transparently.

Its all got to do with who is "completely" honest and transparent. Sure, it is impossible to find total 100% honesty and transparency in Business or politics (which your response is political/business minded), but religious dealings? gospo gleda i slusha.

[Risto the Great]

Bill, would you be willing to reveal a detailed strategy relating to a court case (for example) in front of your adversary in such a forum? This is nothing more than an example. But it does highlight instances where discretion would make sense.

[Bill77]

Bill, would you be willing to reveal a detailed strategy relating to a court case (for example) in front of your adversary in such a forum? This is nothing more than an example. But it does highlight instances where discretion would make sense.

First of all, the fact things are going to courts (and no fault of the community or MOCA) the situation is a travesty.

Even though i don't believe normal people would ask and expect detailed strategy relating to a court case answered, but in a case it happens, then you are right, that would be an instance where discretion would make sense.

But i did ask What can be so confidential that should be kept from the community? which i expected nothing more than an example.

Instead i got technicalities or policies to why they are excused to avoid questions at their own discretion.