Macedonian Church Dispute in Australia

[Mikail]

Julie I couldn't have put it better myself.

Many times I have written about personal experiences regarding this whole mess and I get asked by members of the loyal flock to provide evidence.

I mix in both camps and hear two sides. I have an opinion on what's going on as a result.

The church dispute is about land and assets. I mean, what are we talking about here...... 20mil?

Anyway seeings you started this thread prolet, whats your take on what is going on?

[Phoenix]

Its amazing how the Dalai Llama does not have material wealth, I am in awe of his Holiness, he embraces all faiths, does not bag anyone and speaks with love and kindness, if he can walk around with the robes on his back as his sole possessions, why in the name of the good Lord does a bishop SUE his flock to put titles in HIS personal name, further dividing our Macedonian brothers and sisters.
i miss the lovely priest we had and his beautiful wife and family. He felt obligated to listen to his Bishop's so called wisdom
I miss the people that no longer come to the functions , that is not MACEDONIAN UNITY>

They will wake up to it all.

And BLOODY OATH he should pay taxes, that is not his money but the people's money he sued here trying to make a life for themselves.

I am disgusted , and to be perfectly frank, I dont give a toss about the curses he throws on his "non believers"
non beleiver - someone who does not make me rich will burn in hell he says, well, KARMA is a mighty big thing

'Freedom of Speech Won't Feed My Children'

Manic Street Preachers

Liberty, sweet liberty
Charitable respectability
Then pacifism killed us all
For all the tourists on the Berlin wall
So we protest about human rights
Worship obesity as our birthright
But freedom of speech won't feed my children
Just brings heart disease and bootleg clothing
Just brings heart disease and bootleg clothing

We love to kiss the Dalai Lama's ass
Because he is such a holy man
Free to eat and buy anything
Free to fuck from Paris to Beijing

Little boys with dangerous toys
All bow down to the Beastie Boys
But freedom of speech won't feed my children
Just brings heart disease and bootleg clothing
Just brings heart disease and bootleg clothing

Royalty - hereditery - unelected and becalmed
Just like Stalin, just like Stalin
Human and useless

Bomb the Chinese Embassy
The west is free, oh the west is free
Laugh at the hammer and sickle
It is antique, oh it is antique

And see the love in Richard Gere's eyes
JS Pemberton saved our lives
But freedom of speech won't feed my children
Just brings heart disease and bootleg clothing
Just brings heart disease and bootleg clothing
Just brings heart disease and bootleg clothing
Just brings heart disease and bootleg clothing

[ZAS]

Mikail, spot on. church is equlal to business to money

Maybe this is what Petar's flock need to see, it lining their pockets personally, this is not faith , it is about MONEY.
Money is not my god, nor materialism, my faith has nothing to do with bricks and mortar
And why havent they rebuilt the monastery? how rude
A REAL bishop and priest gathers his flock in unity as Jesus preached.
Not DIVIDING the people, he is not a believer of Jesus Christ's teachings.
I will NOT bow down to the thievery and the brainwashing and dividing our people.
The Macedonian Cause is not about that, the churches were built here by the people, so that they can maintain their culture in freedom

Its amazing how the Dalai Llama does not have material wealth, I am in awe of his Holiness, he embraces all faiths, does not bag anyone and speaks with love and kindness, if he can walk around with the robes on his back as his sole possessions, why in the name of the good Lord does a bishop SUE his flock to put titles in HIS personal name, further dividing our Macedonian brothers and sisters.
i miss the lovely priest we had and his beautiful wife and family. He felt obligated to listen to his Bishop's so called wisdom
I miss the people that no longer come to the functions , that is not MACEDONIAN UNITY>

They will wake up to it all.

And BLOODY OATH he should pay taxes, that is not his money but the people's money he sued here trying to make a life for themselves.

I am disgusted , and to be perfectly frank, I dont give a toss about the curses he throws on his "non believers"
non beleiver - someone who does not make me rich will burn in hell he says, well, KARMA is a mighty big thing

Who was the PROUD MAN who tossed out the Priest and his FAMILY
You see Bishop Petar never wanted to take the church at Adelaide,
Ask your superiors for any DOCUMENTATION that proves he did?
I admire your ability to do what is right, but first see what was behind the church dispute, and where it started, if you do not know this you should not make statements about people lining their pockets and being braiwashed.
We have a simular situation here in Newcastle where we now have 2 churches, The sad reality is that Bishop Petar never sued or ask for the Church to be handed over, yet depite overwealming protests the commitee broke ties with the Eparhia.and a new church open soon after with the old priest, i vernicite followed him over, is this a CRIME?

[Prolet]

ZAS, Why would MPC go to SDSM headquarters? They have 12 Pratenici what good could they possibly do for them??

[makedonche]

Who was the PROUD MAN who tossed out the Priest and his FAMILY
You see Bishop Petar never wanted to take the church at Adelaide,
Ask your superiors for any DOCUMENTATION that proves he did?
I admire your ability to do what is right, but first see what was behind the church dispute, and where it started, if you do not know this you should not make statements about people lining their pockets and being braiwashed.
We have a simular situation here in Newcastle where we now have 2 churches, The sad reality is that Bishop Petar never sued or ask for the Church to be handed over, yet depite overwealming protests the commitee broke ties with the Eparhia.and a new church open soon after with the old priest, i vernicite followed him over, is this a CRIME?

Zas
Nobody tossed the priest out! Many tried to convince him to stay but he was under orders, and left of his own will.

"You see Bishop Petar never wanted to take the church at Adelaide,
Ask your superiors for any DOCUMENTATION that proves he did?"

Zas - I was standing in the church when he tried, along with at least 100 other Macedonians - how much more proof do you need, do you want me to get all these other people to post the same comments about what they were told by Petar, and saw & heard for themselves!
The Bishop started & is behind the church dispute and always has been, how many communities does he need to sue before you realize this? As for lining his pockets, let me ask you this, why hasn't the bishop registered the MOC in Australia and set up accounts in the name of the MOC?
Don't avoid my questions like you have previously with your hit and run posts - answer them, if you fail to your credibility here is zero!

[julie]

Makedonche, ZAS will be going to Petar's heaven, apparently . Funny how Petar's followers are so Christian in attacking anyone that does not support the wrongs he has committed against the people here.

ZAS, I really dont care what church you go to or who you support, i beleive in one thing and that is the Macedonian cause, Mikhail started a lovely positive thread and you start attacking
Peace man, seriously.

[makedonche]

Makedonche, ZAS will be going to Petar's heaven, apparently . Funny how Petar's followers are so Christian in attacking anyone that does not support the wrongs he has committed against the people here.

ZAS, I really dont care what church you go to or who you support, i beleive in one thing and that is the Macedonian cause, Mikhail started a lovely positive thread and you start attacking
Peace man, seriously.

Julie
Thanks for your comments! I have no problems with ZAS posting as long as he has no problem with me responding! This is the MTO - last time I checked it meant The Macedonian Truth Organisation, that is what I am here to get to the bottom of - the truth! If Zas doesn't reply then it's obvious to me that he is not interested in the truth and therefore his credibility and believability is absolute zero and he desrves any mocking he may get! We are all open to the same scrutiny here, there are no favorites!

[ZAS]

Zas
Nobody tossed the priest out! Many tried to convince him to stay but he was under orders, and left of his own will.

"You see Bishop Petar never wanted to take the church at Adelaide,
Ask your superiors for any DOCUMENTATION that proves he did?"

Zas - I was standing in the church when he tried, along with at least 100 other Macedonians - how much more proof do you need, do you want me to get all these other people to post the same comments about what they were told by Petar, and saw & heard for themselves!
The Bishop started & is behind the church dispute and always has been, how many communities does he need to sue before you realize this? As for lining his pockets, let me ask you this, why hasn't the bishop registered the MOC in Australia and set up accounts in the name of the MOC?
Don't avoid my questions like you have previously with your hit and run posts - answer them, if you fail to your credibility here is zero!

You say the priest did not get thrown and that people begged him to stay, real good public relations for the herd, but what was not told to them is that the priest did not want to stay because of the church spliting away from the Eparhia and inturn had he stayed he would have been defrocked, I know same story here, you seem to be some sort of proffesional put yourself in the Priests shoes what would you do?
apart from Rockdale who else is before the courts, i seem to have had my head in the sand and have missed the latest sueing?
The official regestered church is The Eparhia of Australia and New Zealand and all acounts are held in that name.
Now tell me How many Official churches you say have broken away, excluding non Ordained ones.
And tell me what heirecy do these churches answer to, do they have a Bishop or Poglavar in short what religious order do they belong to?

[ZAS]

Makedonche, ZAS will be going to Petar's heaven, apparently . Funny how Petar's followers are so Christian in attacking anyone that does not support the wrongs he has committed against the people here.

ZAS, I really dont care what church you go to or who you support, i beleive in one thing and that is the Macedonian cause, Mikhail started a lovely positive thread and you start attacking
Peace man, seriously.

Excuse me Madam, who have i Attacked??
Can you refer me to my attacks?
You support the Macedonian cause, Really funny, your communty as well as ours are the most divided in Australia, Do you think that all those Macedonian that pray at adelaides New Macedonian church are stupid or migiuded and in your words Brainwashed people, because you have somehow been blessed with religious powers and can Direct them in what church they can pray at.
Le Le A new Mother TERESA.

[ZAS]

ZAS, Why would MPC go to SDSM headquarters? They have 12 Pratenici what good could they possibly do for them??

Abre Prolet dosaden stana with all your questions, every post you either ask What is your opinion what is your thought ,what about this ,and what about that,
MAN you take the cake on question asking.

[julie]

If I am Mother Teresa, does that make you God

Grow up you pathetic noron and READ my posts I dont repeat myself to imbeciles

[ZAS]

If I am Mother Teresa, does that make you God

Grow up you pathetic noron and READ my posts I dont repeat myself to imbeciles

When put in a corner what does the RAT do?

[makedonche]

Qote:
"You say the priest did not get thrown and that people begged him to stay, real good public relations for the herd, but what was not told to them is that the priest did not want to stay because of the church spliting away from the Eparhia and inturn had he stayed he would have been defrocked, I know same story here, you seem to be some sort of proffesional put yourself in the Priests shoes what would you do?"

Well there goes your argument about him being thrown out!
The church did not and has never split from the Eparhia!
What would I do? The right thing - and stand by my people! If all the priests did this there would be no split!

Quote:
"apart from Rockdale who else is before the courts, i seem to have had my head in the sand and have missed the latest sueing?"

Q:How many lawsuits is ok? A: NONE - It's not about the amount, it's about even daring or contemplating going there, can't you see this is wrong? How do you justify being given the task of responsibility for Aus. & N.Z.'s religious needs and then commencing legal proceedings against your own people who have carried the Macedonian Orthodox faith on in Australia for 50 years before you got here?

Quote:
"The official regestered church is The Eparhia of Australia and New Zealand and all acounts are held in that name."

Please provide evidence of this - thsi should be easy enough to do, just get a copy of one of the bank statements!

Quote:
"Now tell me How many Official churches you say have broken away, excluding non Ordained ones."

None!!!! - and if the churches were ordained before he arrived here then how can he un-ordain them? Given that the ground is blessed and the foundations are blessed before the church is built - and this was all done with most of the churches before he got here, are you telling me the only ordained churches are the ones he says so are? Try reading thread 19600808 "macedonian church opens", did he ordain this church? if he didn't does that mean it is not a Macedonian Orthodox Church?

Quote:
"And tell me what heirecy do these churches answer to, do they have a Bishop or Poglavar in short what religious order do they belong to?"

They belong to the members of the communities in accordance with Australian law! They are Macedonian Orthodox Churches!

What happened to "Petar never wanted to take over the church at Adelaide"? I guess you got that one wrong ha! What happened to the priest being thrown out? I guess you got that one wrong as well!
Go and ask Stefan if he considers all the churches in Australia Macedonian Orthodox or only some of them, post his reply here for all of us to see! How do you justify telling Macedonian people they are not true believers and are ex-communicated because they won't hand over their assets? These questions run through the Macedonians of Australia's minds regularly and keep them divided from their friends, relatives and families and if you think that's a good thing then God help you and the Macedonian people because if that's the case we will continue to be divided and easy prey for our dushmani!

[makedonche]

When put in a corner what does the RAT do?

No need for this, we are having a healthy discussion/debate, as long as we arrive at the truth! No need for name calling or putting people down.

[makedonche]

If I am Mother Teresa, does that make you God

Grow up you pathetic noron and READ my posts I dont repeat myself to imbeciles

Julie
Lighten up, i know this topic is very sensitive and sore point for you, it doesn't help with insults, we are having a good debate and everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as we get to the truth!



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