Macedonian Church Dispute in Australia

[Prolet]

SOM, Lets not forget the Hierarchy here, he is the Bishop remember??

We dont have to agree with everything he does, there is no need to attack him like that.

[Bill77]

SOM, Lets not forget the Hierarchy here, he is the Bishop remember??

We dont have to agree with everything he does, there is no need to attack him like that.

Don't bite my head of Batka, but he is man made of flesh and blood. i try not to get involved in this religious stuff, but i must bring to the atention that people forget about God in all this. Toj kegi sudi site shto se krivi.

[Prolet]

Indeed Blagojce

He is a human being just like us, however the Church is different to a Government there is no democracy you dont have to kiss Kevin Rudd's hand when you see him do you?? The Church laws are old and out dated even i dont agree with some of them.

[Bill77]

Indeed Blagojce

He is a human being just like us, The Church laws are old and out dated even i dont agree with some of them.

Ah da ziv. I want to get things straight. I am a proud Macedonian Orthadox. And i atend Macedonian orthadox church's so i can worship together with my falow Macedonians. But thats where it stops. I don't need man to tell me who to prey to, or when to prey or how to have a relationship with God. God has given us eyes and ears, he has given us all free will and wisdom to discern. But i am more into Christianity (christ folower) Rather than Religion (man made). One thing i want to point out is, by me sitting on the outside listening to everyone stress and curse and hate, i can't help but laugh at times, but at the same time shake my head and think you poor soles. How can People Talk about a subject "allegedly" relating to God, yet they spit on one enother. Can't anyone else see the irony in this? now there is more to it, but i don't wish to go on and be acused of Bible Bashing.

[makedonche]

Prolet,
I do remember he is the Bishop and as such the peoples expectation of his conduct is higher - it comes with the territory - so we expect his conduct to be more noble than the average person or indeed the average priest, wouldn't you agree?

[makedonche]

Church Dispute

"I don't need man to tell me who to prey to, or when to prey or how to have a relationship with God. God has given us eyes and ears, he has given us all free will and wisdom to discern."

Bill,
More truer words are hard to find! What happens when the person charged with upholding and supporting your faith does things to the contrary? Does this affect your faith or beliefs?

[indigen]

If he was Bradley Pappas im sure Risto and SOM would know about it, they are good mods.

I am 100% sure it is the same BABOON! Check here.

[makedonche]

Indigen,
I quite agree and whilst we can have little influence in ROM, in Aust. we have the benefit of different legal and social avenues to pusue our religious beliefs. Whilst the ROM was under communist rule and the church was heavily suppressed people in Oz carried on the name and built Macedonian churches and were free to practice their beliefs until several years ago we were told we couldn't use the name Macedonian Orthodox Church without handing the properties over to the bishop or face legal action and ex-communication from the MPC. Hardly the most effective method of uniting Macedonians under the umbrella of MPC!

[Bill77]

"I don't need man to tell me who to prey to, or when to prey or how to have a relationship with God. God has given us eyes and ears, he has given us all free will and wisdom to discern."

Bill,
More truer words are hard to find! What happens when the person charged with upholding and supporting your faith does things to the contrary? Does this affect your faith or beliefs?

We the Macedonian people uphold and suport our faith Batka. These leading figures are the oposit. They get suported by our faith.

Faith is a personal Thing. No one can take that away or install it in you. Why do we wary about Buildings and ownership and Hirachy and international recognition. Are these internationals More believers than you or me? i can tell you definetly no. They are more obsesed with power, politics, Greed, money,racism. My goodness if thats the God they worship why would we want to be part of it. Many here will say no, But yet we wary about these things.

We are the church not a building that is made of Bricks and Mortar. When these satanist from other OC mock us or don't acept us i celebrate. Why? its exactly what Christ went through. He was mocked and not acepted because he whent against the jewish priests. Then later on the first christians went through what no body can imagin. So being related to them evan in a small way, Makes me feel some what special.

I will leave you with this Biblical verse,

Philippians 4:15

New International Version (©1984)
"Moreover, as you Philippians know, in the early days of your acquaintance with the gospel, when I set out from Macedonia, not one church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving, except you only;"

Be proud of This. We don't need to serve anyone else.

[indigen]

Indigen,
I quite agree and whilst we can have little influence in ROM, in Aust. we have the benefit of different legal and social avenues to pusue our religious beliefs. Whilst the ROM was under communist rule and the church was heavily suppressed people in Oz carried on the name and built Macedonian churches and were free to practice their beliefs until several years ago we were told we couldn't use the name Macedonian Orthodox Church without handing the properties over to the bishop or face legal action and ex-communication from the MPC. Hardly the most effective method of uniting Macedonians under the umbrella of MPC!

Well, as far as I am aware, the MOC (based in Skopje, and under direction of its political masters, UDBA, etc.), as soon as it found its feet in Australia, always tried (and has aimed) to take control of ALL Macedonian community church assets. There were a few early attempts by Vladika Kiril (Sv. Kiril i Metodi in Sydney and one of the WA churches) that failed and they then turned to building new competing (pro Yugo) churches that fell under their jurisdiction (i.e. MOC in Skopje), unlike the older Macedonian churches that modelled themselves on Sv. Georgi (Melbourne) constitution, which are legally untouchable. Petar (had) has the full backing of the Sinod in his undertaking, by whatever internal deals were made, and he promised them swift and easy victory, which is only partial after some 15 years.

Also, it seems that even those churches that fall under MOC jurisdiction can not legally have their assets taken over, as is the case with St Petka in Sydney. Here the jurisdiction is limited to control of supplying priests, and Petar has refused to provide one for many years now in order to force them into submission. The churches that are not under jurisdiction of MOC (Skopje) are legally safe unless they are subverted from within. And this is why Karevski and his disciples will continue to wage guerrilla war and try to white-ant them (that is his only option) and/or try to discredit them in order to make them financially unviable by diminishing their followers.

So, let the cards fall where they will and move on from here.

[makedonche]

Indigen,
I'm aware of all the comments you refer to and share your view, it's the disunity and Macedonian against Macedonian that I despise!

[Prolet]

Indigen, What happens if you get excommunicated by the church like what happened to Ico Najdoski?? I sure wouldnt like to stand in the way of the bishop, toj znaj da kolni do sedmo koleno.

[ZAS]

ZAS, do you support Petar's destructive actions?

SOM you see it as DESTRUCTIVE, others see it as JUSTICE,
The FACTS are that all the CHURCHS that are under his control seem to be PROGRESSING greatly.
Where as the others have sold assets, and have not progressed in any major renovations or asset acquisitions, for GOD'S sake some can even use a LICK of paint, and lets not forget the BIGGEST debacle that TRIGGERED the WAR was the sale of our FIRST Macedonian Church in FITZROY, despite overwhelming OBJECTIONS.

[Risto the Great]

SOM you see it as DESTRUCTIVE, others see it as JUSTICE

The ones who see it as justice never built them. Guests who never did the hard yards for their community upset that others who have sacrificed so much still have influence. If you can't beat them, divide them and lead the "B" team. That is the situation ZAS.

[Prolet]

Whatever happened to the Church In Fitzroy Sveti Gjorgjija?? Apparently there is a factory there now. Who sold that church and for what purpose??