Countries that recognize Macedonia

[Prolet]

SOM, Thanks for answering the question thats all i needed to know, this is a good thing i agree.

There was never any intent on my part i simply used the term "Constitutional Name" in reference to our name Republic of Macedonia, sorry for the confusion it may have caused. If you dont agree with that terminology thats fine by me, i can respect that.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Why do you agree with it, given it's non-use in the past before this "constitution" was revised in favour of our racist enemies?

[TrueMacedonian]

According to Gruevski 130 countries recognize Macedonia.

[Prolet]

TM, How can you be so sure of this??

Is it because of this topic? I was under the impression that Morocco had already recognized us. We were up to 127 so who are the other 2-3 countries?

http://www.maknews.com/forum/general-discussions/morocco-130th-country-to-recognize-macedonia-t19516.html

[TrueMacedonian]

I don't know who the other countries are Prolet. This is why SoM created this topic. And yes it was on that specific Maknews topic that I see Gruevski state Morroco was "1 of 130 countries to recognize Macedonia".

[Cukiger]

1. Morocco

Morocco recognized our constitutional name years ago. Here a source from the time when Crvenkovski was president:

http://www.mia.com.mk/default.aspx?vId=62635943&lId=2&pmId=501

2. The number

I think Gruevski just rounded up the number of the countries recognizing us from 127 up to 130 as it is typical for the Balkan mentality, since there were no news on the establishment of diplomatic relations with a new country (or recognition) since Kosovo last year (October!), which is quite concerning... but of course I hope that 130 is the exact number..

3. France

I welcome the fact that this document was signed under our const. name and hope that this might lead to an official recognition of our name. But since Sarkozy several times emphasized France's solidarity with Greece and its positions I'm a little bit pessimistic..

[Prolet]

I think once that cockroach Sarkozy leaves power and the French will vote him out, we can work closer to recognition.

[Cukiger]

President ivanov about the name issue/eu integration process

Skopje, 23 May 2010 (MIA) - There is a way out for Macedonia's EU integration process, therefore bilateral agreement with Greece exists, Macedonian President Gjorge Ivanov said.

- There is a way out. That's why a bilateral agreement with Greece exists, therefore it is passed for Greece not to obstruct our integration. However, I have not seen existence of wish and a kind of pressure on Greece to respect what it had accepted and signed. Other solution is Greece to finally admit the reality that a state Macedonia, Macedonian nation and Macedonian language exist, President Ivanov said in an interview with Radio Free Europe.

Ivanov considers that there are still politicians in Greece who use the rhetoric of the cold war and play on fears and prejudices at their population that by existence of the state Macedonia, a danger exists for their territory, identity.- In the 21st to open such issues and to profit from them is unserious, Ivanov said.

He said that Macedonia showed to be for good-neighbourly relations – therefore we changed the flag, the constitution and now we are in the process conducted in the UN on finding mutually acceptable solution by making best efforts and being constructive. However, we are not seeing such signal and commitment from other side. Probably they consider they should postpone and postpone this issue and as long as they approach from position of power, will have force to obstruct our integration in Euro-Atlantic structures, Ivanov said.

Answering journalist question whether Macedonia has alternative if Greece does not accept a compromise and country remains outside NATO and EU, Ivanov said that we are put in position certain structures to call and to request alternatives.

- There is no alternative for our region except what we have chosen. We have general determination and we persevere in it. Therefore we are making our best through the process led by Mr. Nimetz to come to certain solution, which will be mutually acceptable. But we cannot accept solutions offered by Greece to be placed as mutually acceptable solutions, i.e. Greek proposals to be presented to us that should be ours too, Ivanov said.

Regarding the name issue, Ivanov said that there is no open pressure from the international factors for compromise with Greece.

- There is a pointing out that a solution should be found. We are aware that a solution must be found and therefore we say we are in a need of solution. Greece does not need a solution, and we do not feel that Greece is making something for finding swift solution. It is in its favour. Maybe the strategy Greece had towards Cyprus is applied with us also. It prolongs the problem. It simply creates an environment that it will last as long as conditions are created to come to something which will be in their favour, Ivanov said.

We, Ivanov said, are making everything to point out that international law, what is in the UN resolutions and charter, should be valid for us as for everyone.- As a state we also have a need of dignity, pride and respect of the international order, President Ivanov said in an interview with Radio Free Europe. sk/fd/12:37

http://www.mia.com.mk/default.aspx?mId=1&vId=74135964&lId=2&title=MACEDONIA+-+INTERNAL+AFFAIRS+

[Vangelovski]

I think way to much time and emphasis in provided on the notion of "recognition". What is 'recognition' and what practical role does it actually play?

There are two main doctrines that provide interpretations of which entities can claim statehood. The declarative theory of statehood defines a state as a person in international law if it meets the following criteria:

1) a defined territory;
2) a permanent population;
3) a government and
4) a capacity to enter into relations with other states.

According to declarative theory, an entity's statehood is independent of its recognition by other states.

The declarative theory of statehood was actually codified in 1933 through the Convention of Rights and Duties of States (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/intam03.asp) I think the above criteria were used by the Badinter Commission in the early 1990’s to recommend recognition of Macedonia to the then European Community.

The second doctrine is the constitutive theory of statehood. The constitutive theory defines a state as a person of international law if, and only if, it is recognized as such by other states. The constitutive theory is merely a theoretical construct as it has neither been codified by treaty nor widely recognized in international law. Most modern authorities reject the constitutive theory of statehood, citing among other reasons that it leads to subjectivity in the notion of the state. Another problem is that recognition, even majority recognition, is not binding on third states in international law. This theory is usually used by states like Greece, to argue the illegitimacy of other states.

Some states maintain informal (officially non-diplomatic) relations with states that do not officially recognize them. Taiwan is one example. It maintains unofficial relations with many other states through its Economic and Cultural Offices, which allow regular consular services. This allows Taiwan to have economic relations even with states that do not formally recognise it. Formal recognition, has very little practical effect if it does not disrupt commerce and trade, which it rarely does.

[mvb9999]

I think the above criteria were used by the Badinter Commission in the early 1990’s to recommend recognition of Macedonia to the then European Community.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

Right, and we know how well that went...

Some states maintain informal (officially non-diplomatic) relations with states that do not officially recognize them. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]Taiwan is one example. It maintains unofficial relations with many other states through its Economic and Cultural Offices, which allow regular consular services. This allows Taiwan to have economic relations even with states that do not formally recognise it. Formal recognition, has very little practical effect if it does not disrupt commerce and trade, which it rarely does.

Vangelovski, Your theories are interesting, but politics is about power. Taiwan plays a key strategic role for countering Bejing's military dominance in the region, and it is a potent economic engine with lots of wealth, that's why recognition is less important to them - nothing to due with legal theory. It's apples and oranges compared to Macedonia's position.

[Vangelovski]

MVB,

These are not my theories, they are general practice in international relations.

[Pelister]

mvb

Vangelovski, Your theories are interesting, but politics is about power. Taiwan plays a key strategic role for countering Bejing's military dominance in the region, and it is a potent economic engine with lots of wealth, that's why recognition is less important to them - nothing to due with legal theory. It's apples and oranges compared to Macedonia's position.

So your suggesting Macedonia doesn't have any political power ? If true, how wrong your are! Political power isn't something someone else gives to us - lets demolish that misconception right now. Our political power doesn't come from 'recognition' by the E.U Club, although we are already recognised by over 125 countries in principle. Tom had already pointed out the fallacy in that arguement. Our political powers come from the constituency of the Macedonian State - namely, the Macedonian people. The principle of soveriegnty is one of our greatest strengths and our Constitution clearly states that it derives from the Macedonian people, themselves. This myth you and UMDist's consistently market that we are 'weak' and that without the recognition of either the E.U and/or NATO we don't have any power or simply can't survive without - is simply more umd propoganda - selfserving no doubt. If I can respond to your other point, the Macedonian Republic does not need to become an 'economic power' to have political 'power' - this is another misconception, if you consider that prosperity is measured by many things. Some would argue that full employment is a measure of a states economic prosperity - but what does it have to do with 'political power' - nothing. Its a tiny country with limited resources, so you can understand that when you make a case that economic power = political power in reference to Macedonia, it doesn't apply, its not valid. Macedonia will never be a Taiwan, and why would anyone want that? Taiwan is a shithole. Its never gonna happen. I think you live in a fantasy land, and have so many illusions on the brain, your idea of 'power' being one of them.

[Eddie_rebel]

Excerpt from the website of the Embassy of Japan in Austria: for Japan Мacedonia is Macedonia

"VISA INFORMATION FOR SLOVENIAN, CROATIAN AND MACEDONIAN PASSPORT HOLDERS"> VISA INFORMATION FOR MACEDONIAN PASSPORT HOLDERS

A visa is not required for Macedonian passport holders who wish to enter Japan for a period of 3 months or less for the following purposes:

sightseeing; recreation; visiting relatives or friends; attending a conference; business purposes (such as market surveys, business liaison, business talks, signing contracts and after-sale service for machinery imported into Japan); amateur participation in athletic tournaments or contests ;or other similar activities during a short period of stay in Japan

...

3 MONTHS OR LESS

Argentina; Bahamas; Belgium; Canada; Chile; Colombia; Costa Rica; Croatia; Cyprus; Denmark; Dominican Rep.; El Salvador; Finland; France; Greece; Guatemala; Honduras; Iceland; Israel; Italy; Lesotho; Luxembourg; Malta; Macedonia; Mauritius; Netherlands; Norway; Portugal; San Marino; Singapore; Slovenia; Spain; Surinam; Sweden; Tunisia; Turkey; Uruguay;

Link

Current events co-organised by the Embassy of Japan

Events in Macedonia organised in cooperation with
the Embassy of Japan since 1996:

...

October 4, 2001 Dr. Balabanov is the first Macedonian citizen to receive the prestigious "Special Prize" 2001 of the Japan Foundation for his efforts to improve relations between Macedonia and Japan and to present Japanese culture in Macedonia.

Link

Whole article: I, Macedonian

[Prolet]

Eddie_Rebel, I dont think Japan has any visa regulations for any country. Its simply too expensive to stay there, the fact that Japan is one of the most expensive countries in the world makes it very difficult to go there and stay.

[Prolet]

Eddie_Rebel, The latest news is that New Zealand and Fiji have recognized our name, do you know if any other countries have followed suit?