Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee (AMHRC)

[Risto the Great]

It is strongly arguable the Diaspora is almost entirely responsible for the Republic of Macedonia's separate existence today. I am of the belief that the modern Macedonian identity was in fact forged in the Diaspora. Naturally it existed in Macedonia. But it was forged by those who left it behind in the 20th century.

What happens now that it exists is up to the citizens of RoMacedonia.

It is a shame because we have a country led by economic opportunists and a general Macedonian population full of sheep.

[Vangelovski]

It is strongly arguable the Diaspora is almost entirely responsible for the Republic of Macedonia's separate existence today. I am of the belief that the modern Macedonian identity was in fact forged in the Diaspora. Naturally it existed in Macedonia. But it was forged by those who left it behind in the 20th century.

What happens now that it exists is up to the citizens of RoMacedonia.

It is a shame because we have a country led by economic opportunists and a general Macedonian population full of sheep.

Interesting thoughts RtG.

Not sure about the modern Macedonian identity being forged in the diaspora...definately in part though.

So you're of the view that the Macedonians in Macedonia need to work it out? Do you think its actually possible? What do others think?

[Risto the Great]

Not sure about the modern Macedonian identity being forged in the diaspora...definately in part though.

I know it seems controversial. I just don't think enough will existed in Macedonia to secede without the fierce form of Macedonism that existed solely in the Diaspora.

So you're of the view that the Macedonians in Macedonia need to work it out? Do you think its actually possible?

They have their nation now. Yes, it is up to them. The Diaspora can only be more influential if (possibly when) the nation ceases to exist.

It has proven to be impossible for them in my opinion. Which doesn't mean the Diaspora is now more welcome to assist in this regard.

Just like a junkie, the RoMacedonians need to get to their lowest point and decide if that is the life (or death) they want.

[Vangelovski]

I know it seems controversial. I just don't think enough will existed in Macedonia to secede without the fierce form of Macedonism that existed solely in the Diaspora.

I think Macedonian identity and Macedonian independence are probably two different issues. While the diaspora was certainly pushing for independence, and decades earlier than 1991, I think the Macedonians in Macedonia tripped into it with some subtle manipulation of the referendum question from Gligorov (only after he realised Yugoslavia had collapsed and had no other choice).

Just like a junkie, the RoMacedonians need to get to their lowest point and decide if that is the life (or death) they want.

Thats a very good point.

[Risto the Great]

I think Macedonian identity and Macedonian independence are probably two different issues.

I am not so sure. I think the struggle for independence is what forged the identity.

[George S.]

Rtg is right the diaspora is responsible originally of how Macedonians were seen.Macedonians had that strong hardworking people.But as time went on a big let down by our govt ROM.Also we can reflect on the citizenry becoming more & more apathetic a mindset like sheep.That's why we need a revival badly.There are so many things in rom not right we are losing virtually on every front.Look at the way the diaspora has been ignored the rom govt has never sought support from the diaspora,we are ignored.The diaspora has won on many issues fighting for issues eg the slav prefix being put on us by Vitoria.That was reversed.Many other things of which the diaspora fought to prevent the greek side winning & nobbling us.It hasn't been easy but the diaspora still has been ignored by rom on many issues.name talks icj.ohrid agreementthings that have been aired on the mto website have been ignored.THe 21 years or so was a wasted time space that is the independence what independence.

[George S.]

Macedonians need to work it out,i don't think we have the right kind of leadership,there is so much corruption.eople are ready to sell their name to enter eu or nato.No doesn't seem no its silent.Or is it golden .What the hell are our so called leaders doing fighting with fire capitulating with the enemy.Yes ,Yes it can be worked out people need to have the right frame of mind.THe diaspora must be valued for its nurture of what is to be Macedonian.If we are not recognized as valued people,then by rom Macedonian standards we are wasting our time & effort.WE need unity ,recognition & other ingredients for goodness sakes it can be worked out.That is my view we need a fresh look at what we are trying to achieve & then to give it our full support.

[George S.]

On independence & identity.I think the two signify a modern nation.A umified nation.THe identity cannot be bargained for.Independence is earned after struggling & attaining it.There is a difference of a real or fake independence is when the country has not done enough to attain independence a total freedom.None of the bs from the govt about not pulling out of the name talks.I think all sides of Macedonian need to get together & say what they want choose death or freedom.Sloboda or smrt echoed by gotse delchev.So far all we've had is capitulation & freedom only in name ,& independence a clayton's independence.But certainly it can all be worked out like mind over matter.WE have said many times on this forum why are we cooperating with our enemies because our mindset s are like sheep. we need to awaken & go for a revival & until then we can't do much. until we do.

[Redsun]

Does anyone have any information on the amount of diaspora, How many Macedonians are there globally outside of Macedonia? How connected are the diaspora?

[George S.]

from what I have read total population in the world for Macedonian s is estimated at 5million people includes the diaspora.half of that is diaspora.I can say we are a force to be reckoned with but only recognized through lip service.Take a good look how other countries are treating their diaspora & LEARN cause Macedonians have missed the eight ball on their diaspora.Check especially how greeks treat their diaspora.Citizens born o/s literally are greeks who I'm not sure now be even asked to do service.Where are the Rom govt who bob their heads now & again to take an active interest & tap into Macedonians abroad.What we are no more Macedonians when we leave Macedonia????Look at the voting rights are dwindled away by the dispora representative? colluding with the ruling govt on many issues eg amnesty to terrorists etc.The rom govt doesn't want the diaspora to have their real say as it could affect them badly in their interparty deals or even name deals..
Also rom finally realised & put a stop on the census showing Albanians than they are.Think about the extent & how the Albanians are roughting the figures.People who are born overseas to Macedonian ?Albanians get taken to Macedonia to be registered as Macedonian citizens,That is going on under the authoriies noses & nothing is done.Where alabanians actually number eround 12 % or so .Albanians think they are 25 to 30 %The rom govt has not got it's house in order let alone shown an ctive interest in the diaspora.In the 2001 war I asked if rom needed abled bodied people as I was going to fight for my country.Rom said don't worry about us ,we have been ordered not to fire a shot.How crazy is that you can't defend your own country.I remember about 5000 vigilantes from Bitola were itching to give it to the terrorists ,they had enough of the standby & do nothing tactics.How could you rom govt not invite abled bodied citizens to fight for their country.What the us Or un is ordering you around you can't tell them to go to hell.Our very rights are trampled away by our own govt.Perhaps we won't bother to ask in the next war.?

[Vangelovski]

Does anyone have any information on the amount of diaspora, How many Macedonians are there globally outside of Macedonia? How connected are the diaspora?

Here is a list of official census statistics and estimates. I would go with the official census statistics rather than the "estimates" for two reasons. One, if Macedonians cannot be bothered enough to declare themselves as such, then they are lost as far as I'm concerned and two, these "estimates" are purely fantasy in most cases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_diaspora

The only countries, obviously, that I would not trust the official census results are our neighbours.

[Redsun]

This may seem like a stupid question, I just wanted to know has their ever been an attempt on behalf of the diaspora in assembling a foundation for a political party that could "when large enough" work within the country. Of course it would be powerless "at first" unless it has united enough diaspora to make a significant contribution. Every single diaspora is responsible for the unity of our people. It seems difficult, but you see that attitude on difficulty is a pathetic outlook to consider the difficulty would only lead to self defeat.

This forum is great why is that we only have 1255 members, Every Macedonian I meet I ask them "are you aware the Truth forum exist", take a look at it, Read it. I think there is a lack of promoting our disposition to one another and a lack of Advertising the avenues on uniting diaspora. We discuss many issues here its great but it would be better if their were more of us to see these threads to understand our current position. There is not enough of us here to make a contribution, I hope were not in the same position in 10 years due to lack of will. There has to be some good parents out there trying to raise a young Delchev.

[George S.]

Redsun I can answer the first part I don't think that I can answer the mto bit re capabilities.
The first part I can answer you look at how in 2006 priminister gruevski promised the vote to the diaspora.In the next election that we got the vote .we ended up getting miki dodevski.Here we thought what a wonderfull system of representation we are going to get.We the diaspora can unite & vote no so no harm or disadvantage befalls Macedonia.How wrong were we.I'm not sure but someone said there was about a hundred votes or maybe a couple hundered votes.A drp in the bucket.MIKI did not side with the diaspora he coluded with the govt of rom stance with the terrorists getting amnesty.Now we got ministers of defence that are Albanian then president will probably be Albanian. you know the Albanians are simply taking over & they are making monuments to their heroes the terrorists.SO a big party might be a great idea in practice is not possible.At one point in Macedonia they had about 110 parties what a joke.I heard someone say that Macedonia should have just one party but not everyone will agree.IF the heros were alive they would definitely be turning in their graves as Macedonia is in a topsy turvy mood.

[Peshoshnitsa Lerin]

hey AMHRC will there be a dvd of the night mladi bilbili were at grand Neret forsale?

[AMHRC]

hey AMHRC will there be a dvd of the night mladi bilbili were at grand Neret forsale?

Apologies PL, I didn't notice your post until just now. I don't think there will be a DVD this time - if there is, it will be advertised in a future edition of our Review.