The Macedonian Minority in Albania and Kosovo

[Onur]

^^From what I know, you are right...for once

Jesus was a jew and is described to have olive skin, and 'wooly' dark hair.
Byzantine art is a better reflection of how Jesus looked imo, than the art of any other sect of Christianity.

Spartan, C`moooonnnnn, I am right, only once??? Ohhh maaannn


Yes he was Jew and Jews are Arabs too. They have same ancestry. Like you said, probably other sects of European Christians draw Jesus as white as themselves.

Btw, don't get fooled by current white skinned European Ashkenazim Jews. Their ancestry is a hot debate for 100 years. Real Semitic Jews of middle-east are Sephardi ones like the singer Jasmin Levy here;

[Spartan]

^^WOW
Thats hot!!
My 'type' to a tee.
Reminds me of Alyssa Milano if you know who that is.

[Prolet]

Spartan, She was Arnold Schwarzenegger's daughter in the hit movie Commando, i know her.

[Spartan]

^^Thats the one.... she was very young in that movie though.

[Prolet]

Muslims in Macedonia are more Macedonians than Albanians. This is true. Jue to language and religion. My grandmother (Bog Da Go Prosti) comes from Mavrovo Korab speaked fluent Albanian as well as Macedonian. Cause they forced her to speak the language. The Macedonian muslims in that time would be more closer with the Albanians cause they had a more of the connection than with there own people.

Theres a belief that the Macedonian Muslims who still hold there culture and language speak the cleanest of all Macedonians...

Mr Maso, Those people you speak of are Shkreti they come from the Mavrovo region, they are Macedonians they have Macedonian names and they are Orthodox Christians however their mother tongue is Albanian and Albanian is their first language. There is many of them in Skopje and unless they tell you they are Shkreti its pretty much impossible to know they are unless you hear them speaking Albanian between themselves.

There are many villages in the Mavrovo area that are Shkreti, they even have churches there.

[Mastika]

Mr Maso, Those people you speak of are Shkreti they come from the Mavrovo region, they are Macedonians they have Macedonian names and they are Orthodox Christians however their mother tongue is Albanian and Albanian is their first language. There is many of them in Skopje and unless they tell you they are Shkreti its pretty much impossible to know they are unless you hear them speaking Albanian between themselves.

There are many villages in the Mavrovo area that are Shkreti, they even have churches there.

Prolet, this was true in the past. However the Mavrovo region has been extremely depopulated by all ethnicities. The few villages that had Albanian-speaking Christians 100 years ago are today very depopulated (many completely empty) with the most of the Christians having moved to Skopje and elsewhere. Of those villages that were Albanian-speaking Chrisitian 100 years ago, only 7 have Christian populations today, Vrben (135), Sence (5), Belicica (4), Volkovija (9), Duf (2), Krakorica (15) and Brodec (7). In these cases however, due to the small number of people involved the information can be very much be influenced by a family or two moving into a village for example, also to notable was the fact that all of the Christians identified themselves as being Macedonians whose mother langauge was Macedonian not Albanian. This suggests that they are either new arrivals from elsewhere in Macedonia (eg. non-Albanian Christians [ethnic Macedonians]) and thus not Shkreti or that they have completely assimilated into Macedonian society. Although these people had a significant presence in the region in the past, this has since diminished to a community ranging possibly from between c. 0 to c.250 people. There are however many more in the Skopje and other larger cities (Gositvar, Tetovo, etc.).

I agree with others here that what some Bulgarians have been doing (trying to get these people to declare as Bulgarians) is very morally wrong and unacceptable. Their language is closest to Macedonian and considered to be a transitional dialect of Macedonian. This is recognised by most international scholars (including many Serbains such as Pavle Ivić consider the language to be Macedonian), it is here again that the Bulgarians are pushing a point rejected by the rest of the world (another Bulgarian only perspective, as we all know, is that the Macedonian [langauge] is in fact Bulgarian bullshit). The majority see themselves as Goranci, some such as Ismail Bojda see themselves as ethnically Macedonian. Some who feel themselves to be Bulgarian have started a Bulgarian group similar to Bojda's Macedonian group, that group is "Kulturno-prosvetno društvo Bugara iz Župe “Bugarski Muhamedani”" [this group however seems to be primarily directed at "Bulgarians" from the Sredacka Zupa just down the road from Gora, this group however are generally considered to be Bosniaks], again this feeling is only shared by a minority. If the Sojuz na Makedonci so Islamska religija wants help from outside, then by all means we should provide help for them. If people see that Macedonia is interested in helping them then I am sure that people will feel more inclined to see themselves as ethnic Macedonians. After all, their ethnicity is ultimately up to them.

[gorco]

The Macedonians (of muslim faith) living in Gora district in Kosovo, are pure Macedonians, neither Bosniaks, Serbs or Bulgarians.

They even speak better and pure Macedonian language than anyone from the capital.

[Onur]

The Macedonians (of muslim faith) living in Gora district in Kosovo, are pure Macedonians, neither Bosniaks, Serbs or Bulgarians.

They even speak better and pure Macedonian language than anyone from the capital.

So, you shouldn't lose these people just because they are not Christians, otherwise you would push them in to the arms of Albanians.

[Onur]

I just google`ed gorani and i found some Turkish web sites about these people and their origins.

I saw articles by an historian living in USA, who has Gorani parents. He says that they are either Macedonians who accepted Islam in very early stages, like 15th century or they are descendants of Cuman Turks but most probably, mix of both. He says that all Gorani people speaks Macedonian and Turkish with Cuman dialect and they got oil wrestling tradition as long as they know themselves(It`s a traditional sport among all Turks). Also says, their traditional rug designs and patterns are same with Turks, wedding and funeral ceremony traditions are exact same as other Turkish people. They also see themselves as close relatives of Torbeshi people in Macedonia.

He says that they are definitely not Albanian or Bosniak but after 1970s, he notes that Albanians trying to assimilate Gorani people by abusing their poverty and other problems.


Author of the article also notes that lots of young men from Gorani region volunteered for the battle of Gallipoli in 1915 and 436 of them died in that battle and they also organize memorial day ceremony at the same day with Turkey and Anzacs.

[Prolet]

Spolaj Ti Onur,

The Gorani's come from the Gora region

There is Oil Wrestling all over Macedonia, its a popular sport we call it Pelivani/Kecheri. They pour Zejtin on eachother and they wrestle on the grass.

[Onur]

Spolaj Ti Onur,

The Gorani's come from the Gora region

There is Oil Wrestling all over Macedonia, its a popular sport we call it Pelivani/Kecheri. They pour Zejtin on eachother and they wrestle on the grass.

LOL, Whaat??? I am learning something new here everyday


Ok, maybe Turkish people does there but Macedonians does "Pehlivan gures(wrestling)" too? For how long?
and yes, Pehlivan pour "Zeytin yagi"(Olive oil) to each other to make wrestling more difficult. Because of oily body, sometimes a single game takes 3-4 hours

Traditionally, Pehlivans does wrestling on grass and with the music of "davul, zurna" accompanies them. In Turkey we got annually "Pehlivan gures" competition. I think it is 750th or 760th year of the competition this year and it`s been done every year, so i don't think there are any continuously done sporting competition older than our Pehlivan games in the world.

[Mastika]

LOL, Whaat??? I am learning something new here everyday


Ok, maybe Turkish people does there but Macedonians does "Pehlivan gures(wrestling)" too? For how long?
and yes, Pehlivan pour "Zeytin yagi"(Olive oil) to each other to make wrestling more difficult. Because of oily body, sometimes a single game takes 3-4 hours

Traditionally, Pehlivans does wrestling on grass and with the music of "davul, zurna" accompanies them. In Turkey we got annually "Pehlivan gures" competition. I think it is 750th or 760th year of the competition this year and it`s been done every year, so i don't think there are any continuously done sporting competition older than our Pehlivan games in the world.

Onur, oiled wrestling is the national sport of the Turkish people if I am not mistaken? Similarly to Gaelic football for Irish people etc.

[Blagojce]

there was a Macedonian festival in Brod, Kosovo a few days ago.

YouTube - Makedonski Folkloren Festival Gora 2010, s.Brod, Kosovo 2

[Blagojce]

Would anyone know as to why the region of gora in kosovo has never been included in maps of Macedonia? i mean those maps which include the regions of vardar, pirin, egej, mala prespa, golo brdo and prohor pchinski.

[Soldier of Macedon]

To be honest, I think there are still even other areas that can be included as Macedonian, namely, parts of south-west Thrace and eastern Albania.