Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[julie]

negotiations continue?

Utrinski vesnik: Greek-Macedonian negotiations could bring results, Olli Rehn



1 December 2009 | 08:47 | FOCUS News Agency



Skopje. EU Commissioner for Enlargement Olli Rehn said he is an optimist over Greek-Macedonian negotiations on name issue and could yield result, Macedonian Utrinski vesnik newspaper writes. According to Rehn the way things are developing is encouraging.
“It was positive meeting was held between Macedonian and Greek prime ministers Nikola Gruevski and George Papandreou because this helps to bilateral relations between Macedonia and Greece. It concerns a working development and I believe the two prime ministers will make progress. I cannot tell when there will be strong enough development to take a decision on starting EU accession talks with Macedonia but I think the direction is good,” Rehn said

[Jankovska]

It is against my wishes as Macedonian and I believe 90% of Macedonians feel the way I do. So the goverment decides to carry on against our wishes? Is that a good goverment?
I don't think so

[julie]

It is against my wishes as Macedonian and I believe 90% of Macedonians feel the way I do. So the goverment decides to carry on against our wishes? Is that a good goverment?
I don't think so

I will never understand it. Not after making some progress with the visas. What is the point?

[Risto the Great]

I'm all for negotiations.
I can't wait for Greece to give in to my terms.

[Pelister]

I will never understand it. Not after making some progress with the visas. What is the point?

The Macedonian people were never asked whether they wanted their identity negotiated, and there is good reason for that. They would have said 'No'.

This is all the evidence I need that the government is intending to betray us.

It pisses me off.

[Bill77]

I actualy think our Government are playing there Cards right. We don't want to be the ones to back out and Be labeled as the ones that Broke the bilateral relations or friendly Neighbourly relations, what ever they want to call it. This would be held against us by the west where curently, Greece are percieved to be looked as unjust and unfair. Last thing we need now is Greece to promote us being in fault for Breaking the recomendation EU or UN set (not sure which one) That we must show "friendly Neighbourly relations" or something along those lines. They will also use that excuse in future for veto now that many are starting to say The name isue is a bilateral issue and should not be an obstical for Macedonia entry. Just because our Government is being Diplomatic about it, does not mean they have intentions in changing the name. Its just a game. Same goes with the Greek Gov, the only diferance is, Greece has no other choice. They Don't want to discuss it more than us, But they want us to back out so they can say "i told you so". Why do you think there requests have changed for the worse? They are cornered and are desperate. They hate each day they read the paper and does not show The Macedonians Backing out.

Any way, this is Just another way of looking at it.

[Dimko-piperkata]

Movement for resistence aginst the namechange

MOVEMENT FOR RESISTENCE AGINST THE CHANGE OF THE STATE NAME OF MACEDONIA



MEMORIAL SERVICE FOR THE VICTIMES OF THE GREEK GENOCIDE OF THE MACEDONIAN PEOPLE AND WORLDWIDE PROTEST FOR THE DEFENCE OF THE STATE NAME OD MACEDONIA ON DECEMBER 6TH!



December 4th 2009, Skopje, Macedonia - The World Macedonian Congress appeals to all Macedonians by birth and citizenship for Worldwide protest for the defense of the state name Macedonia on the 6th of December 2009 at 10 am, after the morning prayer in all the churches of the Macedonian Orthodox Church in the World.



The Worldwide protest has to be fulfilled with Memorial service with prayers for the victims of the Greek genocide of the Macedonian people from the Balkan Wars 1912-1913 and the Civil War in Greece 1946-1949 and memory of the dropping of the first napalm bombs by the British on the Macedonians on Gramos and Vicho, as a warning to the World for the horrors of the wars.



After the memorial, in front of the attendees should be read: Declaration for the defense of the state name of Macedonia and Appeal for apology of The Great Britain for the defeat and the victims of the democratic forces, Greek antifascists and of the Macedonians after the World War II from the Civil War in Greece from 1946 to 1949. Declaration for the defense of the state name to be sent to as many public figures, academic, ministers, parliamentarians, judges, presidents of countries where you live and to as many international organizations as possible.



For every activity send information to WMC ([email protected]

) for distribution to the media.



In the city of Skopje the Memorial service will be held in the Assembly Church “St. Klement Ohridski.” In the places where there are no Macedonian Orthodox Churches, protest should be held in club space of the existing organization or other adequate space.



Only united and together in the defense of the state name Macedonia, because the name of the country Macedonia is our identity and freedom, on any meridian of the Earth.



For additional information on: [email protected]

and 389 75 507 111.



__________________________________________________ _______



Macedonians by birth and citizenship and the Macedonian communities from all parts of Macedonia in the World, in the Movement for resistance against the change of the state name of Macedonia, in 2009 endorse this



DECLARATION

for the defense of the state name of Macedonia



(1) The issue of the state name of Macedonia is closed with the Referendum of 8th of September 1991, when the Macedonian people and citizen, in absolute majority voted for “independent and sovereign state Macedonia” without suffixes and attributes! The decision of the Referendum is obligatory!

(2) The only compromise, as the expression of the good will for closing of the name issue in the relationships with Athens, was endorsed by the first multi party Parliament (of Macedonia): to the state name Macedonia was attached the constitutional reference “Republic” as a clear difference from the same province in Northern Greece, which Athens for the first time in its history had occupied in the Balkan Wars 1912-1913, performing genocide over the Macedonian people which continues to the present.

(3) Macedonians are: against new referendum for the change of the state name Macedonia; against ratification of agreement for the change of the state name in the Parliament of the Republic of Macedonia; and against change of the Constitution for the determination of names for internal use and external use.

(4) Having in view that Macedonia as a equal successor of the former Yugoslav federation of sovereign state is the founder of the United Nations, the Macedonians are asking for immediate unconditional stop of the negotiations about the difference of the state name Macedonia and continuation of the membership in the United Nations and all international organizations under the state name Macedonia with possibility for the use of the constitutional reference “Republic” without Latin transcription of the Macedonian language, but in the English language “The Republic of Macedonia” with the international code MK/MKD.

(5) The Macedonians are: for inviolability of the Macedonian-Greek border, for Macedonian-Greek reconciliation, for the return of the citizenship and properties and inheritance right of the forcefully deported Macedonians from the Aegean part of Macedonia after the Balkan Wars(1912-1913) and the Civil War in Greece (1946-1949), for Accord for lasting peace and good neighborly relations between Republic of Macedonia and Republic of Greece that should replace the present Macedonian-Greek Temporary Agreement of 13th of September 1995, and even unilaterally , are declaring that the culture and history of Macedonia is not exclusive right, but part of the cultural-historic identity of all the Balkans demoses as contemporary political nations in which foundation is the Macedonian ethnos irrelevant of the differences in the reading of the history from the aspect of the contemporary geopolitics, even independent of the differences among the contemporary literate languages as the result of the contemporary political nations!

(6) Macedonians are for entering in alliance with the European Union and NATO, but if the anti-Macedonism of Athens, the Greek genocide over the Macedonian people and the requests for the change of the state name Macedonia are the values for solidarity of Brussels and Strasbour with Greece, the membership in these alliances of states is hereby being rejected!

(7) The Macedonians are condemning the Nazi-fascism of Athens and the apartheid of the European bureaucracy against Macedonia. Macedonians demand that Athens, Brussles and Strasbour apologize for the genocide over the Macedonian people and to pay the reparations for the damages incurred because of that.

(8) The request of Athens and the pressure of the European Bureaucracy for the change of the state name Macedonia represent genocide over the Macedonian people, crime against humanity, discrimination of the universal human rights and freedoms and shame for the European democracy! Nazi-fascism, racism, anti-Macedonism and anti-Semitism of Athens are problems of EU and NATO, and not of Macedonia, and they should resolve this by themselves thus eliminating the abuse of the right of veto!

(9) The name of the Macedonian people is inseparably connected with the name of the state of Macedonia. The name of the state of Macedonia is the foundation of the name for the Macedonian people, and therefore any change, suffix or attribute of the state name of Macedonia, means permanent change of the name of the Macedonian people and language, because by the International Law the nationality as a synonym for the citizenship by automatism is determined from the name of the Nation as a synonym of the country. International name or name for external use is the state name of Macedonia, and the identity of the Nation is the name of the country!

(10) The Macedonians do not have territorial claims against Greece, neither the state name Macedonia implies territorial claims, confirmed also with the declaration of the Council of Ministers of EU on the 16th of December 1991, after the proposal of Badenter’s arbitrary committee for Yugoslavia, that “the use of the name Macedonia does not contain any territorial claims against other country” and with the amendments I and II of the Constitution of Macedonia from January 6th 1992, with which the Article 3 was amended with “Republic of Macedonia does not have territorial claims against neighboring countries the Article 49 was amended with new statement that the Republic for the care and status and the rights of the participants of the Macedonian people in the neighboring countries and for the Macedonian Diaspora will not infringe in the sovereign rights of other countries and their internal affairs”!

(11) The Macedonians are for immediate filing of demand to the General Assembly of the United Nations for enacting of Resolution for the advisory opinion by the International Court in the Hague, for the legality of the additional conditions for the acceptance in to membership of Macedonia in the UN: to be admitted under the temporary reference and to discuss for the difference of the state name with another country. The Macedonians are supporting the filling of the complaint in the International Court in Hague against Republic of Greece, and in related with fulfillment of the Article 11 from the Macedonian-Greek Temporary Agreement from September 13th, 1995.

(12) Besides Euro-Atlantic, also preferred are Euro-Asian integrations, especially with Turkey, Russian Federation, China, India and Japan. Support is expressed for the admission of Macedonia, with the status of observer, to the Movement of non-allied countries, The Arab League, The Islamic Conference and the deepening of the strategic partnership of Macedonia with USA, Turkey and Israel.

(13) It is being demanded from the Government of Macedonia to place and alley with the flags of all the countries that has recognized Macedonia under the constitutional name, holding a plate in front of every flag pole with the name of the country and the date of recognition (next to the Stone bridge on the side of Vardar River, in front of the Government, the Parliament or other prominent place).

(14) This Declaration is enacted immediately.

(15) This Declaration is sent to: Presidents, Parliaments and Governments of Macedonia and Greece; United Nations, European Union, Organization For European Security and Cooperation, The Council of Europe and NATO and the Presidents, Sovereigns, Parliaments and the Governments of the Countries members of these organizations.

__________________________________________________ ________



HAVING in view that the Civil War in Greece 1946-1949 represented continuation of the antifascist war, in which the British defeated the democratic forces and defeated the partisans movement in Greece-ELAS and its political wing EAM, worried that they may take over the Government after the victory against the Fascism in Greece after the World War II,

FACED with the terror of the monarchic-fascists as collaborators of the German, Bulgarian and Italian fascist occupiers, who supported by Anglo-American interventional forces, they merciless defeated the democratic forces of Greece, especially with the Macedonians who were active and mass enrolled in the Democratic Army of Greece, and

BELIEVING in the democratic capacity of the Greek people, Macedonia-Greek reconciliation and in resolution of all open questions between Macedonia and Greece,

The Macedonians by Birth and citizenship and the Macedonian Communities from all parts of Macedonia all over the World, in the movement of resistance against the change of the state name of Macedonia, in 2009 endorsed this



APPEAL

for apologies by the Great Britain for the defeat and the victims

of the democratic forces, the Greek antifascist and the Macedonians

after the World War II in the Civil War between 1946 to 1949



(1) We appeal to the British Prime Minister to publicly apologies in the name of Great Britain for the defeat and the victims of the democratic forces, Greek antifascists and the Macedonians after the WW II in the Civil War in Greece between 1946 to 1949, because the British help in the win of Monarchic Fascists, as well as the dropping of the first napalm bombs on the Macedonians on Gramos and Vicho, as an expression of the victory of the democratic values in new Europe and the defeat of the Fascism in the WW II!

(2) This Appeal is enacted immediately.

(3) This Appeal is sent to: Presidents, Parliaments and Governments of Macedonia and Greece; United Nations, European Union, Organization For European Security and Cooperation, The Council of Europe and NATO and the Presidents, Sovereigns, Parliaments and the Governments of the Countries members of these organizations.

[Risto the Great]

The Declaration and Appeal are very much in line with how the Macedonian Diaspora feels in my opinion.

[George S.]

we in the diaspora do not think of compromisng our name we are macedonians who feel we should be left alone we don't need to change anything

[Bill77]

Skopje, December 3 (MIA)

- Croatia would be pleased when Greece would make efforts to separate the bilateral name issue from membership talks in order Macedonia to be able to join NATO and EU, because it would step up Europe's unification towards becoming the biggest peace factor in the world. This was stated by Croatian President Stipe Mesic after he met with Macedonian counterpart Gjorge Ivanov on Thursday in Skopje.

- Croatia backs Macedonia's EU integration processes and we're certain that there will be opportunities for finding a solution to the Macedonian-Greek row, without calling the Macedonian identity into question in any way and without letting Greece to feel threatened, Mesic said.

Presenting modalities for overcoming the blockade, the Croatian President said that one possibility was to freeze the issue till Macedonia completed its foreign and political goals. The second alternative, he added, is the establishment of an arbitration to put the issue aside in order Macedonia to resume EU entry talks or bilateral talks where all historical arguments will be taken into consideration.

*****- One argument can be found in the 1974 Yugoslav constitution, where the republics were positioned as states and after 1974 the republics formed a confederation, even though it was called federation. This Yugoslav federation was made up of republics as states with the right to declare independence and one of the republics was Socialist Republic of Macedonia. This constitution wasn't disputed neither by UN nor by any other body, said Mesic.*********

President Ivanov stressed that Macedonia was hoping for a positive outcome and that finally the European Commission recommendation would be approved on Dec. 7.

- If the bilateral dispute hampers the date for launch of accession talks, it will prompt a new situation in Macedonia in which additional efforts will have to be made in order to restore the initial enthusiasm, said the Macedonian President.

He added that Croatia's border dispute with Slovenia was a positive example on how bilateral row should be settled.

- Amid integration processes, such issues should be overcome as bilateral issues without hindering the process which mobilises the entire society and its institutions. Macedonia was mobilised to meet required conditions to secure a date. The institutions worked with full capacity, all the criteria were met which resulted in obtaining a positive report. A date will stimulate us to complete the negotiations regardless of this bilateral issue, stated President Ivanov.

[Bill77]

This point in particular:

"...This Yugoslav federation was made up of republics as states with the right to declare independence and one of the republics was Socialist Republic of Macedonia. This constitution wasn't disputed neither by UN nor by any other body, said Mesic"

[Risto the Great]

This point in particular:

"...This Yugoslav federation was made up of republics as states with the right to declare independence and one of the republics was Socialist Republic of Macedonia. This constitution wasn't disputed neither by UN nor by any other body, said Mesic"

Yes, there is substance to that observation.

[Prolet]

Maybe there is a sign there?

I remember Dr Janev giving his opinion and everybody jumped up about it, i think Stipe Mesic could have a case here.

[George S.]

No where does it say that Macedonia has to capitulate let the politicians know.

[Pelister]

It seems to be the concensus.

I just can't for the life of me understand why they continue negotiating.