Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Karposh]

The Macedonians are gay and just swallowed.

LOL. Very colourfully put. That pretty much sums it up. I'll just add - now that they've bent over and taken it Greek-style (literally), they might as well go the whole hog and change the ventilator to a rainbow flag. That would be much more appropriate I feel. A brand new flag to go with the brand new nation of North Macedonia where the citizens (and not Macedonians) can feel truly proud with their recent achievement.

[Phoenix]

What else could she mean other than money for nothing that is supposedly handed out by Brussels? If Macedonians thought there were more important matters then they would have addressed them by now rather than undertaking national and cultural suicide for the past 30 years.

What I find particularly disappointing are the comments from people such as Ms PhD (above)...this group of supposedly 'intelligent' people who have turned a blind eye to the scandalous means by which this agreement has come into play...clearly these people don't stand for anything important, their PhD's are merely random and meaningless letters that are attached to their name, without meaning and without substance, their papers lacking the quality for effective arse wiping...just as the condom revolutionaries have sat mute as Zaev has added a gilt layer of political abuse, cronyism and nepotism to a system that they so vehemently opposed only yesterday...

These are the people that have ultimately failed and betrayed Macedonia...the people that put materialistic gain before human rights and the laws of the land, the people who postured but ultimately stood for nothing at all.

[Phoenix]

Yeah you mother fucker, what are the mechanisms of enforcement enshrined in the Prespa agreement that make you so certain of this? Who is going to make them uphold that? What are the consequences for breaking the agreement? A scolding from the UN or the ICJ? You stupid mother fuckers

Dealing with the greeks won't be easy, they have clearly demonstrated time and time again that they won't readily adhere to the agreements that they sign.

The only certainty with any agreement entered into with greece is that they will insist on the implementation of every single word in that document that is relevant to them...meanwhile their obligations to the Macedonian side will always be open to interpretation, legal challenge and total disregard.

[Gocka]

Dealing with the greeks won't be easy, they have clearly demonstrated time and time again that they won't readily adhere to the agreements that they sign.

The only certainty with any agreement entered into with greece is that they will insist on the implementation of every single word in that document that is relevant to them...meanwhile their obligations to the Macedonian side will always be open to interpretation, legal challenge and total disregard.

No laws or agreements are worth the paper they are written on unless there are defined consequences and mechanisms of enforcement.

All countries have "laws" but unless someone enforces them, they are merely suggestions. The prespa agreement is no different. Where in the agreement does it outline consequences for Greece if it decides to veto NMK. If Greece breaks the agreement what will NMK do other than complain to the ICJ. The ICJ can give a ruling and it can get politely filed away in the archives. Did the EU cosign this agreement and certify that Greece loses its veto power on this matter as long as NMK upholds its end? There is not a god damn things NMK can do if Greece decides to veto, they would be back to square one except with no concessions left to give.

The only thing that keeps two parties honest in an intentional agreement is when BOTH parties have given something up and have something to lose as a consequence. There are no consequences for Greece no matter what it does. What would NMK do, change its name back? Big deal, no one would recognize them anyway, Greece would maintain its veto and all you've done is look like a fucking idiot changing your name back and forth like they were your socks.

If the EU really wanted to show its commitment and sincerity, it could have been an official party to the deal and made sure both parties kept their promises.

All of this and yet we haven't even touched on the the veto power of Bulgaria and for NATO also Albania.

I can't believe such stupid people could exist.

[Soldier of Macedon]

All of this and yet we haven't even touched on the veto power of Bulgaria and for NATO also Albania.

There is so much that hasn’t been touched on by those short-sighted traitors. What happens when Bulgaria and Greece put up further roadblocks by refusing to recognise Macedonian as an official language within the EU? What happens when they do the same for the Macedonian ethnic identity? If, by some miracle, both of these are officially recognised as Macedonian within the EU, would that enable our brethren in the south and east to identify as such? Will they finally be afforded their human rights which the EU has thus far ignored? Will the parasites in Bulgaria and Greece really allow that to happen? Perhaps the monkeys currently holding sway over heartbroken Macedonia should’ve thought about all of that whilst digesting everything being shoved into them by their new boyfriends from Bulgaria and Greece. The media continues to characterise the treacherous Prespa “agreement” as the conclusion to the dispute between Macedonia and Greece and the removal of obstacles to EU integration. Utterly comical. This debacle isn’t over, not by a long shot. As RTG says, holding my breath for the revolution (as elusive as it may now seem).

On another note, I have been reading some of Tacitus’ works recently and came across a quote which seemed rather pertinent if one were to swap Britons for the Macedonians and Romans for the EU (or any of our other numerous enemies). Here are two versions:

https://archive.org/stream/tacitusagricolag00taciiala/tacitusagricolag00taciiala_djvu.txt

He (Agricola) moreover offered the sons of the chiefs a liberal education……..that they who so lately loathed the sound of Latin might be fired with ambition to make eloquent speeches in it. Roman costume thus came into fashion, and the toga began to be commonly seen, and bit by bit the way was opened to those agreeable means of demoralisation, the lounge, the bath, and the banquet; and this change the unsuspecting Britons called by the name of refinement, when it was but one step deeper into slavery.

https://erenow.net/ancient/romans-and-barbarians-four-views-from-the-empires-edge-1st-century-ad/5.php

The sons of chieftains were educated in the liberal arts; and those who not long before spurned Roman speech began to aspire to rhetoric and adopt the toga. So by slow degrees the Britons were seduced by pleasant pastimes, like strolling through colonnades, relaxing in the baths and attending polished entertainments, till finally the gullible natives came to call their slavery ‘culture’!

[Carlin]

Legally speaking, the next steps are as follows.

1) Law on Prespa Treaty has already been published in the Official Journal of Greece. With the publication in the Official Journal dated January 25, 2019, the agreement between the two countries is already officially a law in Greece.

2) Greece will inform the NATO General Secretariat that the Prespa Treaty has been ratified by the Greek Parliament, so permanent representatives of 29 NATO member states should sign the Protocol on Accession of the Republic of North Macedonia, and it should be ratified in the parliament of their countries.

3) The protocol for joining NATO should be ratified by the Greek Parliament, and then Greece will send a verbal note to Macedonia, informing it of the ratification of the Prespa Treaty and the NATO Protocol.

4) After receiving the note, Macedonia will send a verbal note to Greece and the UN that the Agreement comes into force. Then, Macedonia will notify the UN and international organizations with a letter that the country is now called Republic of North Macedonia.

5) After the official name change follows the opening of embassies in both countries. The existing liaison offices in Skopje and Athens are becoming embassies.


- The Prespa agreement provides for the proper translation of the name Republic of North Macedonia into all languages.

- Regarding the Language, the Agreement clearly stipulates that the official language is the "Macedonian language" that is translatable into all languages (for example, in English "Macedonian language"). Also, the Macedonian language remains in the UN in New York - MACEDONIAN LANGUAGE / МАКЕДОНСКИ ЈАЗИК - without any footnotes with further explanations.

In the agreement itself there is a article that points to the fact that the Macedonian language is part of the South Slavic group of languages. But there is no footnote in the UN.

- Regarding citizenship / nationality, as we already know it is defined as "Macedonian / citizen of the Republic of North Macedonia".

URL:

https://novatv.mk/ratifikatsijata-sleduva-implementatsijata-na-dogovorot/

[Soldier of Macedon]

That's for NATO. What about the EU?

[Gocka]

The media continues to characterise the treacherous Prespa “agreement” as the conclusion to the dispute between Macedonia and Greece and the removal of obstacles to EU integration. Utterly comical. This debacle isn’t over, not by a long shot.

That right there might be our saving grace. Common phrases I hear in NMK are "thank god its finally over", "now we can move on", etc. One can only hope that after this mess continues to drag on indefinitely and the bags of money are no where in sight, that people might eventually see the naivety of it all. That those people hate us, that they wish we didn't exist, that they want to take everything that makes us who we are. That they are insatiable wolves that have never left the 18th century, and that their only goal is our total destruction.

https://archive.org/stream/tacitusagricolag00taciiala/tacitusagricolag00taciiala_djvu.txt

https://erenow.net/ancient/romans-an...ntury-ad/5.php

Oh how things change and yet stay the same.

[Carlin]

That's for NATO. What about the EU?

Article 2 of the Prespa Agreement.

URL:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/resources/article-files/aggliko-1.pdf

[YuriB]

There is a debate on Wikipedia on if/when to move the article for Macedonia to North Macedonia. It seems they will wait until the Macedonian government sends out the formal letter worldwide asking for their name change: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk...6_January_2019

[Risto the Great]

Welcome YuriB

[YuriB]

Welcome YuriB

Thanks for having me over!

[Vangelovski]

Then, Macedonia will notify the UN and international organizations with a letter that the country is now called Republic of North Macedonia.

That right there. For decades idiots around the world (Macedonian of course) told us that its not that simple. That FYROM had to stay and we couldn't just change our name back to Macedonia. Igor Janev even came out with the most convoluted way of changing Macedonia's name to Macedonia at the UN. It was ridiculous.

Tell a Macedonian the simple truth and they will lynch you. Come up with the most ridiculously complicated lie and they'll follow you until an even more ludicrous one comes out.

[Carlin]

Thanks for having me over!

[YuriB]

Ironically, it might be that the Greek government dug its own grave with this deal. Acknowledging that a) there exists a Macedonian language (and thus, people) and b) there is a country called North Macedonia, it follows logically that c) there is a region called South Macedonia (in Greece) that contains (or at least contained) Macedonian people. Then again, nationalism is an expert in creating doublethinking...