Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Risto the Great]

The only authority it has is to act as an official repository (depository?)

Suppository?

[Vangelovski]

Suppository?

That's it - that's the word I was looking for.

[Gocka]

The 2/3 majority in Macedonia's parliament voted to not implement the constitutional changes if Greece does not ratify it.

Where did you get this from? I totally missed it in reporting.

[vicsinad]

I know I'm always that guy, the one going around telling everyone that they're wrong, but you're wrong on the UN thing.

The UN has no authority to determine the contents of international agreements - those made between sovereign states. The only authority it has is to act as an official repository (depository?) if the parties to these agreements choose to register these agreements with the UN and only for the purpose of invoking those agreements within the UN. For example, when Macedonia sued Greece in the international court of justice to enforce its name FYROM.

If you read Security Council Resolutions 817 and 845 you'll see there's a lot of urging, a lot of noting, a lot of welcoming and a lot of recommending. But there is no directing anyone to do anything or authorising any UN organ to make any decision about anything. That is because it does not have the authority to do so.

The most Russia can do is huff and puff and spread false hope for patriots and fear for fyromanians.

Its all an interesting conversation, but nothing more.

I think you're being too generous with the reading of SC Res. 845. It's almost bewildering that Russia even made the argument that the SC Res. 845 gives them the authority to resolve this in the UNSC.

Still, I'll take this illegitimate albeit creative attempt by Russia to make a stink over the inaction of the supposed Macedonian patriots.

[vicsinad]

Where did you get this from? I totally missed it in reporting.

It came as an amendment from 8 DPNE members that defected DPNE. I don't have the link at hand but I've read it in multiple articles that this was what was introduced and accepted.

[Gocka]

It came as an amendment from 8 DPNE members that defected DPNE. I don't have the link at hand but I've read it in multiple articles that this was what was introduced and accepted.

Interesting. Is it automatic or does it require some kind of action from parliament?

[Vangelovski]

It came as an amendment from 8 DPNE members that defected DPNE. I don't have the link at hand but I've read it in multiple articles that this was what was introduced and accepted.

Its among the amendments you posted for me the other day. It says that the amendments to the constitution (implementing the prespa agreement) go into effect only once Greece ratifies the agreement. But I don't remember reading that they are time limited. Greece could theoretically ratify the agreement in 10 years time and Macedonia will automatically revert from fyrom to North Macedonia. Ironically, should Macedonia actually end the negotiations and move on from this sordid affair, Greece could ratify the prespa agreement and Macedonia would end up with the taste of butt in its mouth...again. It would have to amend the amendments.

Who still thinks governments are qualified to run our lives?

[Carlin]

Greek Foreign Ministry issues strongly worded response to Moscow

URL:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/236598/article/ekathimerini/news/greek-foreign-ministry-issues-strongly-worded-response-to-moscow

The Greek Foreign Ministry has dismissed Moscow’s criticism of the deal to resolve the name dispute between Greece and Macedonia as tantamount to meddling in Greece’s affairs.

In a statement earlier Monday, the Russian Foreign Ministry said the deal was a Western plot to draw the Balkan country into the NATO security alliance.

In response, the Greek Foreign Ministry said the Russian Foreign Ministry’s decision to cite political developments in countries which enjoy friendly relations with Moscow is “incompatible” with Greek-Russian bilateral ties and the long-standing bonds of friendship between the two peoples.

The ministry went on to say that legitimate concerns are raised as the Russian Foreign Ministry statement overlooks the democratic functioning of institutions in Greece, whose constitution has clear provisions for dealing with anything that impacts the country’s internal political order.

Last week, RoM lawmakers ratified the deal under which the country will be renamed Republic of North Macedonia. The deal, which has met with fierce opposition in both countries, also needs to be ratified by the Greek Parliament.

“The decision by Macedonia’s Parliament, which voted in favor of changing the country’s name, has been imposed from outside and does not reflect the will of the people,” the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

“It is clear that there is an ongoing process imposed from outside which is aimed at changing the country’s name in an artificial way with the ultimate goal of forcefully inducting Skopje into NATO. This is taking place in violation of Macedonian law,” the ministry said, adding that President Gjorge Ivanov and the majority of the country’s population were against the agreement.

Moscow plans to refer the issue to the United Nations Security Council.

[Carlin]

North Macedonia and Sad Serbia, Mijat Lakićević

URL:

https://pescanik.net/severna-makedonija-i-tuzna-srbija/

The meeting between Vladimir Putin and Aleksandar Vucic will be a meeting of two losers. Because both of them were defeated in Skopje the other day. But let's start from the beginning.

The news that the Macedonian Parliament adopted the new name of the state - North Macedonia, was welcomed in Serbia with torment. This, in fact, is just a little bit changed sentence that I started the text about half a year ago when the presidents of Macedonia and Greece, Zaev and Tsipras achieved this undoubtedly historic agreement.

For no one in Serbia at that time - neither the "position" nor the opposition, the independent media or the NGOs - did not only not publicly approve this act, but it did not even record it. Like then, same today. And Zaev also showed political courage and political farsightedness, and in particular the sense of political leadership - this is true for Tsipras, but he is not so important for this story - that is, the ability to take responsibility at the key moments of national history. All that, therefore, from Djindjic was not shown by anyone on the political scene of Serbia, on which side of the spectrum he was and in which role he was in that scene.

Here all eyes are on Putin. Which is not a small thing, in Macedonia he suffered a serious defeat. All the available forces, to recall, he hired to prevent this peace agreement - first by working openly for the benefit of Gruevski, and against Zaev - and when the agreement was reached, he said he would not recognize it.
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It is not, however, a problem that the approvals of Zaev was not directed by the Serbian authorities, but not by our opposition either. Although this, in fact, is not something odd. Because, while current Foreign Minister Ivica Dacic states that Serbia has made a mistake of recognizing Macedonia, Vuk Jeremic, the former foreign minister and current leader of the opposition, did not even want to speak the name of Macedonia - he said: "the state whose capital is Skopje".

However, Skopje will soon become the capital of a NATO state. Which is a "fast track" for joining the European Union. And even if the EU falls apart - which another opposition leader, Bosko Obradovic, dreams of - NATO will not fall apart. Especially in this case it will not. On the contrary, it will strengthen even more. What will underline - now neglected - is its political dimension. From which of course, the economic consequences will arise.

As a rule, they are not seen immediately, but only for a decade or two, sometimes longer. So now we can see how wrong the choice of the 90s cost us. And where were Serbia and Bulgaria long time ago, for example, and where they are today.

Who you're with - you are the same as that person, that's what our people say.

Peščanik.net, 14.01.2019.

[Vangelovski]

I haven't checked the weather today - is it raining euro's over there yet?

[Phoenix]

I haven't checked the weather today - is it raining euro's over there yet?

Zaev claims that the heavy snowfalls of recent days have delayed the mass planting of money trees...but they're coming...along with massive foreign investments, now that the name has been changed...the future's so bright, I gotta wear shades...

[Tomche Makedonche]

My thoughts since this whole saga began, has always been that this is all primarily about NATO. The EU is a peripheral issue to everyone else since it will be a decade before any of that will begin to be taken seriously.

In this respect, the most constructive approach for Greece is probably to go along with their military masters and ratify the accord. No doubt the power the accord grants the Greek state over the Republic is one of domination, the Republic will remain subservient to the will of the Greek state in which it can demand and manipulate whatever policy it chooses. Greece essentially has acquired control of a new territory to mould to its will across a number of spheres, it still retains the power to hold the state at ransom and implement further ideological policies to indoctrinate the populace without having to bare any liability. They will after all have plenty of time to water down the Macedonian identity to irrelevance by the time the EU comes to the party. Geopolitically it also consolidates a larger sphere of influence in the region making it a stronger player amongst its most immediate competitors. Its not an opportunity most countries would pass on in respect of what they conceive to be an opponent. It is an almost fairy tale situation for them.

The alternative, being to decline to ratify the accord, is to pursue a policy of destruction, essentially it would probably be the best way to go about the dissolution of the Republic. Whatever measures those ministers from DPNE thought they added is really irrelevant, the Albanians have had the smarts to place their chips in with the constitutional amendments and those amendments will not be retracted as they carry with them the Albanians invested interests. Any push back if Greece pulls out will not change the constitutional amendments going forward which may fracture Macedonian support for SDS. Albanians will try to enforce the new name and all that goes which could start the process of official federation and even war (well armed skirmishes). Russia will add their rhetoric to spur further anti NATO and anti EU sentiment and well the whole thing can dissolve with partitions becoming a viable proposition to put on the table. NATO would have a vested interest to ensure that the mess remains as a western protectorate and deploy a permanent peace keeping mission and we will end up with another Bosnia situation. From the Greek perspective, sure that will diminish the potential of their imagined northern threat but also risks further polarisation of the remaining Macedonian fracture emerging from the carnage who would likely as a result hold a greater fanatical ideology in respect of their identity then the current apathetical one shared amongst the population now. The result also means that they allow another competitor (greater Albania) to increase their sphere of influence in the region (as opposed to Greece increasing theirs) which will further isolate them in the region due to Albania’s natural alliance with Turkey.

Looking at those two possible paths, it would seem more favourable for the Greek state to ratify the deal now, complying with and allowing NATO to achieve their goal to secure “western” hegemony of the state, and then look to mould the republic to their will in the decades leading up to potential EU membership.

The only question is whether they can fight their entrepreneurial urge to demand more from the Republic before the parliament ratifies the deal. Its clear that any demand they force on the Republic at this moment, Zaev will accept and agree to in order to push it through before the Greek elections, its just whether there is enough time to close off any further amendments before the Greek elections as prolonging the deal may actually put it all at risk under a new government and make it fall apart resulting in the destruction scenario previously discussed.

Taking into account the Greeks proclivity towards malevolence, irrationality and stubbornness when dealing with Macedonians, not to mention their greatest weakness (their delusions of grandeur), It is very easily possible it can go that way. So I guess we’ll see whether the Greeks weaknesses or their rationale wins the day.

As for this Russia UN talk, I’m with Vangelovski on that one, this is nothing but Russia pissing in the wind, pathetically clawing for relevance before its legs finally collapse and its corpse is consumed in about 20 years.

[Vangelovski]

Zaev claims that the heavy snowfalls of recent days have delayed the mass planting of money trees...but they're coming...along with massive foreign investments, now that the name has been changed...the future's so bright, I gotta wear shades...

I'm sure the snow ploughs are on their way from Brussels.

[Risto the Great]

The North Macedonians have been ploughed for ages.

[Vangelovski]

Its among the amendments you posted for me the other day. It says that the amendments to the constitution (implementing the prespa agreement) go into effect only once Greece ratifies the agreement. But I don't remember reading that they are time limited. Greece could theoretically ratify the agreement in 10 years time and Macedonia will automatically revert from fyrom to North Macedonia. Ironically, should Macedonia actually end the negotiations and move on from this sordid affair, Greece could ratify the prespa agreement and Macedonia would end up with the taste of butt in its mouth...again. It would have to amend the amendments.

Who still thinks governments are qualified to run our lives?

I just went back to this. The bit about the amendments only going into effect once Greece ratifies the agreement were in the explanatory material - not in the actual amendments themselves - which means jack.

The amendments are in full effect now.