Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Tomche Makedonche]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/rightists-call-for-boycott-of-macedonia-s-name-referendum-08-06-2018

Right-Wingers Call for Macedonia 'Name' Referendum Boycott

Right-wing groups led by the small pro-Russian United Macedonia party are launching a joint campaign for a boycott of the September 30 ‘name’ referendum on changing the country’s name to heal relations with Greece.

A coalition of 28 small right-wing political parties, political factions, civic associations and NGOs are backing a campaign dubbed ‘Macedonia Boycotts’, whose aim is to foil September’s referendum on the historic ‘name’ agreement with Greece, which is key for Macedonia’s Euro-Atlantic path.

Janko Bacev, the president of the small United Macedonia party and head of the so-called crisis headquarters, which the right-wing groups formed on Sunday called the Social Democrats-led government illegal and described those who support the referendum as traitors.

“A new and legal government which will come, will deal with all the national traitors,” Bacev warned on Sunday.

“Let’s boycott the September 30 referendum and save Macedonia’s centuries-old name,” he urged.

The referendum on September 30 will ask voters if they back Macedonia's accession to NATO and the EU by accepting the name agreement with Greece that was signed in June.

Under the deal, Macedonia agreed to change its name to Republic of North Macedonia, while Greece agreed to lift its veto on Macedonia's NATO and EU integration.

For the deal to be fully implemented, Macedonians must show they support it in a referendum.

The small United Macedonia, which Becev leads, is the only openly pro-Russian party in the country, and has no MPs in parliament.

Those involved in the ‘Macedonia Boycotts’ campaign also include Filip Petrovski, a former prominent member of the main right-wing opposition VMRO DPMNE party who is now leading party’s so called ‘Democratic faction’.

Petrovski on Sunday accused the government of Zoran Zaev of trying to persuade the VMRO DPMNE to participate in the referendum in order to its boost chances of reaching the required threshold of more than 50 per cent of voters.

“We here say no! We won’t accept that game; we will boycott; the referendum must fail and on September 30, Zaev’s government will crumble as well,” Petrovski said.

Officially, VMRO DPMNE remains undecided about whether to take part in the referendum. The party strongly opposes the ‘name’ agreement with Greece.

The newly-formed campaign against the referendum also includes so-called ‘patriotic associations’ like the Christian Brotherhood, Amanet 1903 [Legacy 1903], Tvrdokorni [Hardcore], Makedonium and The Third Party of Macedonians, as well as some other less prominent or completely obscure associations.

[Tomche Makedonche]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-needs-inclusive-debate-if-referendum-is-to-succeed-08-05-2018

Macedonia Needs Inclusive Debate if Referendum is to Succeed

If the government wants to avoid a destructive boycott, it should borrow from the Irish example and foster a truly inclusive debate on the terms of the agreement.

With a date set for the referendum on the agreement between Greece and Macedonia aimed at resolving the long standing name dispute between both countries, the Macedonian government led by Zoran Zaev will need to embark on a major information campaign in the weeks that remain before the vote.

An inclusive public debate at both national and local level will be essential to ensure that citizens are given all the information needed to determine whether or not to accept the terms of the agreement. Time is short.

If the government is to address accusations about its lack of transparency in the conduct of the negotiations leading up to the agreement, it will have to put the remaining time to good use by deploying all available resources at its disposal in launching this nationwide debate.

It will need to involve civil society organisations, academia, the media and all actors in society in this effort. This would also be the best way to offset the possible threat of a boycott by the opposition, which would jeopardise the chances of reaching the 50-per-cent threshold of voters needed for the referendum result to be valid.

Political life in the Balkans is replete with examples of parties boycotting parliaments or even elections or referenda. Political dialogue and consensus building remain elusive goals in the entire region. Whether it is Albania, Kosovo, or Macedonia, a parliamentary session rarely goes by without one party or another boycotting proceedings.

Such boycotts rarely succeed unless international mediators become involved and try to find compromise solutions. Of course, this practice is not exclusive to the Balkans. The word “boycott” entered the English vocabulary in 1880, named after Captain Charles Boycott – an unscrupulous representative of the absentee landlords in Ireland during the times of British rule who was collectively shunned by the local community.

Ireland has long moved on from those brutal colonial days. Over 100 years, later it offered a shining example of achieving peace through dialogue and compromise with the historic Good Friday Agreement of 1998, which brought peace to Northern Ireland after decades of bitter conflict. The Agreement included Ireland giving up its claim to Northern Ireland, requiring a change in the Irish Constitution.

Citizens of the whole of Ireland were given an opportunity to vote in a referendum held concurrently in both Northern Ireland and in Ireland in May 1998 on the outcome of the negotiations and on the Agreement. A copy of the Agreement was circulated to all households with a plea to all voters to exercise their democratic right to vote. This was accompanied by a major information campaign throughout Ireland.

Of the 56 per cent who voted in Ireland, 94 per cent voted in favour of the Agreement, while in Northern Ireland, of the 81 per cent who voted, 71 per cent voted in favour. It was a victory for peace and a more prosperous future.

Macedonia and the rest of the Balkan region have a long way to go before they reach the same levels of political dialogue and compromise.

Despite the many imperfections contained in the “name” agreement reached between Macedonia and Greece, it does, nevertheless, offer a ray of hope that the many bilateral disputes that continue to plague the entire region can be solved through dialogue and political will.

As with the Northern Ireland Agreement, signing is the easy part. The biggest challenge for Macedonia will be to show that the agreement opens the door for reconciliation with Greece on the basis of equality while enabling it to start accession negotiations with the EU and NATO. The government has yet to convince the public that this will be the case.

The government’s task is hampered by the lack of a tradition of public debate; the previous government led by Nikola Gruevski refused to engage in any public debates with the then opposition.

Although the now opposition VMRO DPMNE party has replaced Gruevski – who is facing multiple criminal charges – with a new leader, it has yet to show that it is a reformed party that is willing to engage, as a constructive opposition party should.

Meanwhile, the current government, in power since May last year, has made huge efforts to promote an inclusive governance model. However, it will need to do much more to engage in a more transparent manner with all sectors of society. Using social media will not be enough.

The challenge will be to break the tradition of people voting purely along party or ethnic lines – and encourage them to vote on the merits of the agreement and what it means for the future of Macedonia.

[Rogi]

All of those pseudo-journalists writing articles about "right-wingers" and the "opposition" as the ones calling for a boycott, just don't have any real insight on the ground.

It is the people calling for a boycott and behind the #Бојкотирам movement.

It is a non-political national movement, unlike any other in the last 27 years.
In fact, a great many of those most active were those who had the loudest anti-Gruevski voices.

Some smaller groups and parties may back the movement, as is their prerogative.

[Risto the Great]

Friends on the ground in Macedonia keep hearing the common strategy will be to boycott.

If those gypsies running Macedonia can be duped with false Albanian votes in the past, they can also make up votes in this sham of a referendum. Why don't we create a voting mechanism for Macedonians who wish to boycott the referendum. Run a parallel vote for the boycott!

[Gocka]

Exactly right, old and wise chichko Risto. Seriously though you are absolutely right. LOMA is planning a strategy that involves much more than a simple boycott. All a boycott will do is ensure that the referendum has lower turnout but a heavily skewed result towards Yes. It also leaves the door open to manipulation of the results and turnout. We will call for a boycott, coupled with protests the day of the referendum, and to blockade voting locations. We believe the referendum is illegal and illegitimate, and thus shouldn't even be allowed to go forward. If the political opposition won't stop it, if the courts won't stop it, then it is up to the citizens to stop it. A line has to be drawn in the sand that illegal and unconstitutional acts will physically not be allowed to happen, hopefully that leads to the traitors physically being removed from office.

Friends on the ground in Macedonia keep hearing the common strategy will be to boycott.

If those gypsies running Macedonia can be duped with false Albanian votes in the past, they can also make up votes in this sham of a referendum. Why don't we create a voting mechanism for Macedonians who wish to boycott the referendum. Run a parallel vote for the boycott!

[Phoenix]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...eed-08-05-2018

Macedonia Needs Inclusive Debate if Referendum is to Succeed

Where was this wanker advocating for an inclusive debate before or during the negotiation process...instead all of these geniuses have remained silent throughout the entire rotten process until now when the grand plan may just implode...where have these cock suckers been since Zaev was installed to power in the most dubious of circumstances and this cunt is lecturing about transparency and inclusive debates...has he got the memory of a goldfish or is he still in his renowned grunken stupor that he's forgotten how the president and main opposition party, let alone the people were kept in the dark while Zaev and his band of incompetent buffoons stripped the nation of its soul...

[Pelagonija]

Counter referendum.. now that’s a farking great idea..

Imagine the lefti homos brains trying to comprehend it.. “but but but your referendum was run by corrupt non democratic Russian backed gay hating nazis..”

[Carlin]

Anketa - source: Telma

[Niko777]

So in other words, if the referendum was held today, the name change would pass

Anketa - source: Telma

[Gocka]

Why wouldn't it. As I outlined before you can get more than half way their with Albanians and other minorities alone. You only need about 25% of ethnic Macedobains to support it for it to pass. Again you can get that in hardcore sds voters alone. Throw in some manipulation and it's a cake walk. From the moment it was announced I had no doubts that it can get over the line with minimal effort. This is why LOMA is going to call for protests and blockades not just boycotting and hoping for the best. If Macednoians don't want this to pass then they are going to have to grow a pair and stop it.

So in other words, if the
referendum was held today, the name change would pass

[Big Bad Sven]

Why wouldn't it. As I outlined before you can get more than half way their with Albanians and other minorities alone. You only need about 25% of ethnic Macedobains to support it for it to pass. Again you can get that in hardcore sds voters alone. Throw in some manipulation and it's a cake walk. From the moment it was announced I had no doubts that it can get over the line with minimal effort. This is why LOMA is going to call for protests and blockades not just boycotting and hoping for the best. If Macednoians don't want this to pass then they are going to have to grow a pair and stop it.

But thats the thing, only 1% of ethnic macedonians should vote for the name change (the politicians) the rest should vote no to change the name. Its not a hard mathematical equation for the people in macedonia

I get 25% of the shiptar population will vote yes, but macedonians are still the majority.

I guess all will be revealed soon, pretty much the last roll of the dice for macedonia

[maco2envy]

Is it safe to assume most of the 'nema da glacam' voters are followers of the boycott movement? Or do they genuinely not give a shit? If they are followers of the boycott movement then combined with the 'no' vote they are the majority, although that won't matter in the referendum given they are divided.

Also I don't really trust telma given their affiliations with zaev.

[Karposh]

Call me cynical but, in light of Telma's recent reporting of celebrations at Mechkin Kamen, I would question the veracity of any poll undertaken by them. They stink of of being too close to Zaev and Co. and the stench is particularly strong in the following example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF6DcvayRI4

In it, they label Ivanov's speech and crowd behaviour as “scanalous”. Did they really expect the crowd to throw rose petals at the feet of these traitors?

[Phoenix]

Call me cynical but, in light of Telma's recent reporting of celebrations at Mechkin Kamen, I would question the veracity of any poll undertaken by them. They stink of of being too close to Zaev and Co. and the stench is particularly strong in the following example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF6DcvayRI4

In it, they label Ivanov's speech and crowd behaviour as “scanalous”. Did they really expect the crowd to throw rose petals at the feet of these traitors?

I agree that you can't trust that survey...I doubt that there would even be a scientific approach to any poll taken in Macedonia...everything seems to be a fabrication to suit whoever is in power.
Macedonia is a totally corrupt country, nothing is done according to transparency, rules, laws or values...

[Rogi]

There was an article in Nova Makedonija about just how useless these polls are in Macedonia, which are usually taken with a sample size of 1,000 people and are generally wildly inaccurate (such as per the results of elections vs the polls leading up to them)