Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Risto the Great]

Pathetic moron.

The idiots who embrace this are the same ones waving the ventilator around. Later they will tell us people have fought under this name. It's so disgusting.

[Rogi]

Protest in Bitola just concluded. Decent turnout.

[kompir]

They certainly played their part, but really, the Macedonian people have allowed this and are ultimately responsible. They should have hung their entire government when it accepted FYROM and began negotiations back in 1993.

I'd like to say you're correct, but the truth of the matter is that the government of the time were self installed, and the people weren't able to hold to account the cockroaches in power at the time. The republic of Macedonia, like any other democracy/republic in the modern world has the illusion of choice and political power via the ballot box. If voting made a difference, it would be outlawed.

[Rogi]

Here's a video (from a couple of hours ago) with Dimitar Apasiev as he runs through 6 fatal reasons why the agreement with Greece cannot / will not legally go ahead

https://www.facebook.com/www.1tv.mk/videos/1944260602253046/

[EgejskaMakedonia]

If he really supports this crap then he better get used to the ‘Northern Macedonian perspective.’ I don’t think idiots like this truly understand the ramifications of the agreement. It’s amazing how little self-worth a lot of Macedonians (predominantly in the Republic) have today. It only took 27 years for them to officially give away the last portion of Macedonia...but when they were negotiating and making concessions on our identity and history from the get-go, it really is no surprise that it’s come to this. We don’t deserve a state. Something needs to happen before the vote is passed twice and the constitution is amended. I feel like after this, there’s no turning back. Any high-ground and support we’ve previously had in the eyes of the world will be forever forfeited.

[Tomche Makedonche]

The world has always thrown its support behind us, when we decided there was something to negotiate, they supported us. Now when we decide we should change our name and identity, they will support us again

[Rogi]

Something needed to happen already. It's now a no-win situation for Macedonians, whatever takes place, ranging from civil war, to the agreement being enacted post-referendum, it is a no-win situation.

What I expect we'll see soon enough following all the "positive" mentions from EU, etc, is that some money (likely in the form of credit) will be thrown Macedonia's way, to ensure people are bribed accordingly to let this agreement go ahead.

This means things like pensions might go up, some agricultural prices go up, minimum wage goes up, fuel prices go down, etc (likely all on credit, putting the country even further in debt) to effectively bribe just enough of the population to pacify the nation.

[Phoenix]

Here's a video (from a couple of hours ago) with Dimitar Apasiev as he runs through 6 fatal reasons why the agreement with Greece cannot / will not legally go ahead

https://www.facebook.com/www.1tv.mk/...4260602253046/

Apasiev seems certain it won't get through...as you've mentioned in another post though, enough money directed at the right people and it could get over the line.

He raises many good points in the interview, which makes the current situation even more difficult to accept...one has to wonder who were the 'expert' legal team and negotiators representing Zaev & Dimitrov in the talks...?

How do you go from a position of being recognised by 130+ nations around the world to an erga omnes solution to appease the one nation on the planet that has a 'problem'...or why have things been coughed up when they were never part of the original mandate that Nimitz worked under...?

[Risto the Great]

If a referendum happens, I would bet on a grand announcement from the EU approximately 48 hours before the vote. It will be a wonderful thing and the reality of it will never match how it will be interpreted by the morons living in northern fyrom

[Carlin]

1) ПРЕСПА Е ПРОСТРАНСТВО ВО КОЕ ЕДЕН ЈАЗИК ОБЕДИНУВА ТРИ НАЦИИ, ВЕЛИ ПРАТЕНИКОТ НА СИРИЗА КОСТАС СЕЛЦАС

URL:

https://sdk.mk/index.php/makedonija/prespa-e-prostranstvo-vo-koe-eden-jazik-obedinuva-tri-natsii-veli-pratenikot-na-siriza-kostas-seltsas/

Пратениците на владејачкото мнозинство од Македонија договорот за името го прославија заедно со грчките колеги од владејачката Сириза во Псарадес (Нивици) во една локална кафеана. Покрај пратениците, на прославувањето беа и поранешните градоначалници на скопската Општина Чаир Изет Меџити и на Гостивар Невзат Бејта од ДУИ. На прославата беа и дел од владините функционери. Поради блокадите на патиштата од Лерин кон Преспа, пратениците задоцнија на потпишувањето на договорот.

Македонските пратеници пред да заминат со брод за Отешево, направија фамилијарна фотографија со грчките колеги од Сириза за спомен.

Пратеникот на Сириза од Лерин, Костас Селцас кој единствен се изјаснува како етнички Македонец за САКАМДАКАЖАМ.МК рече дека ова е историски договор кој ќе има благодет и за двете страни и за регионот на Преспа.

„Го потпишавме тука, на ова Преспанско Езеро, кое ги има трите точки на спојување, Грција, Македонија и Албанија. Ова е голем ден за мене. Ден што го чекавме многу години. Дадовме големи напори од двете страни за да дојде до овој голем ден и за македонскиот народ и за грчкиот народ. Ова езеро е едно пространство кое има три нации, ама има еден јазик. Со јазикот можеме да зборуваме меѓу нас. Мислам дека овој договор ќе помине во грчкиот парламент со големо мнозинство“, рече пратеникот на Сириза од Лерин Селцас.

Г.ТРПЕНОСКИ

2) Seven police officers were injured and three civilians were detained in protests in front of the Macedonian Parliament, MIA reports quoting police and hospital sources

https://standard.mk/sedummina-policajci-povredeni-vo-nasilnite-protesti-pred-sobranieto/

During the protests, leader of the party Edinstvena Makedonija Janko Bachev mounted a police armored vehicle with a Russian flag
Video:

https://a1on.mk/archives/908570

Radmila Sekerinska, in the Open studio of 1TV, "fiercely" condemned the violence that happened tonight before the Parliament

https://fokus.mk/radmila-shekerinska-go-osudi-nasilstvoto-pred-sobranie/

[Pelagonija]

1) ПРЕСПА Е ПРОСТРАНСТВО ВО КОЕ ЕДЕН ЈАЗИК ОБЕДИНУВА ТРИ НАЦИИ, ВЕЛИ ПРАТЕНИКОТ НА СИРИЗА КОСТАС СЕЛЦАС

URL:

https://sdk.mk/index.php/makedonija/prespa-e-prostranstvo-vo-koe-eden-jazik-obedinuva-tri-natsii-veli-pratenikot-na-siriza-kostas-seltsas/

Пратениците на владејачкото мнозинство од Македонија договорот за името го прославија заедно со грчките колеги од владејачката Сириза во Псарадес (Нивици) во една локална кафеана. Покрај пратениците, на прославувањето беа и поранешните градоначалници на скопската Општина Чаир Изет Меџити и на Гостивар Невзат Бејта од ДУИ. На прославата беа и дел од владините функционери. Поради блокадите на патиштата од Лерин кон Преспа, пратениците задоцнија на потпишувањето на договорот.

Македонските пратеници пред да заминат со брод за Отешево, направија фамилијарна фотографија со грчките колеги од Сириза за спомен.

Пратеникот на Сириза од Лерин, Костас Селцас кој единствен се изјаснува како етнички Македонец за САКАМДАКАЖАМ.МК рече дека ова е историски договор кој ќе има благодет и за двете страни и за регионот на Преспа.

„Го потпишавме тука, на ова Преспанско Езеро, кое ги има трите точки на спојување, Грција, Македонија и Албанија. Ова е голем ден за мене. Ден што го чекавме многу години. Дадовме големи напори од двете страни за да дојде до овој голем ден и за македонскиот народ и за грчкиот народ. Ова езеро е едно пространство кое има три нации, ама има еден јазик. Со јазикот можеме да зборуваме меѓу нас. Мислам дека овој договор ќе помине во грчкиот парламент со големо мнозинство“, рече пратеникот на Сириза од Лерин Селцас.

Г.ТРПЕНОСКИ

2) Seven police officers were injured and three civilians were detained in protests in front of the Macedonian Parliament, MIA reports quoting police and hospital sources

https://standard.mk/sedummina-policajci-povredeni-vo-nasilnite-protesti-pred-sobranieto/

During the protests, leader of the party Edinstvena Makedonija Janko Bachev mounted a police armored vehicle with a Russian flag
Video:

https://a1on.mk/archives/908570

Radmila Sekerinska, in the Open studio of 1TV, "fiercely" condemned the violence that happened tonight before the Parliament
https://fokus.mk/radmila-shekerinska...pred-sobranie/

Radmila, who took part in the fake western staged rainbow revolution now condemning protest. What a vile lady.

[Niko777]

If a referendum happens, I would bet on a grand announcement from the EU approximately 48 hours before the vote. It will be a wonderful thing and the reality of it will never match how it will be interpreted by the morons living in northern fyrom

Hmm, where have I seen this before? Oh yea, that's right:

[Risto the Great]

Yes. There are indeed precedents.

[Vangelovski]

I'd like to say you're correct, but the truth of the matter is that the government of the time were self installed, and the people weren't able to hold to account the cockroaches in power at the time. The republic of Macedonia, like any other democracy/republic in the modern world has the illusion of choice and political power via the ballot box. If voting made a difference, it would be outlawed.

Its this kind of fundamental misunderstanding of the democratic system that has gotten Macedonians into this mess to begin with. But my point was that the actions of the government called for the people to remove it by force if necessary, which is their fundamental right.

But again it was the Macedonian people who did not care enough about their own affairs and allowed this to happen. Two million people cannot allow 120 to do as they please and then complain that they couldn't hold such a miniscule group to account.

[Tomche Makedonche]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-greece-sing-historic-name-deal-06-17-2018

Macedonia, Greece Sign 'Historic' Name Deal

Macedonian and Greek ministers on Sunday signed a landmark agreement aimed at finally resolving their decades-long dispute - which Macedonia's PM said had 'turned an enemy into a friend'.

The Macedonian and Greek Foreign Ministers, Nikola Dimitrov and Nikos Kotzias, in the presence of their countries' Prime Ministers, Macedonia’s Zoran Zaev and Greece’s Alexis Tsipras, signed a historic agreement aimed at ending the long dispute over Macedonia's name on Sunday.

The UN "name" mediator, Matthew Nimetz, as well as other ministers from both countries attended the ceremony, as did the EU enlargement commissioner, Johannes Hahn, the EU foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini, as well as the UN’s Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs, Rosemary DiCarlo.

The ceremony took place in the border region of Lake Prespa, in the Greek village of Psarades, after which both delegations headed to the Macedonian side of the lake, to the village of Oteshevo, for a celebratory lunch.

Macedonia's Prime Minister Zaev said the deal put an end of the barren policies of the past that focused on isolation and self-isolation.

“Today we put an end to the dispute. We put an end to the long-standing differences which have put up a wall that made friendly relations difficult between neighbours,” Zaev said.

The agreement “brings us a friend that many said was an irreconcilable enemy.”

Greek Prime Minister Tsipras called the agreement “patriotic”, and one that “respects the fundamental values of both countries”, adding that both governments now need to work on its implementation.

To reach a compromise over such a tough dispute “takes political leadership, courage and strategic thinking. These leaders showed that they possess these qualities”, UN mediator Nimetz said in his address.

The signing ceremony was protected by a heavy police presence on both sides of the border as opponents of the agreement in both countries had announced protests.

In tandem with the signing ceremony, Macedonia's main opposition VMRO DPMNE party planned a protest march in the southern town of Bitola.

Greek right-wingers also announced rallies condemning the deal in the regions near the Greek-Macedonian border.

News of the eagerly-awaited breakthrough came on June 12 after the two sides stepped up UN-sponsored talks at the start of this year, after Zaev's Social Democratic Union, SDSM, took power in Macedonia in 2017.

Under the agreement, Macedonia is to change its name to “Republic of North Macedonia” in exchange for swift accession to NATO and a start to EU accession talks.

The definition of the country’s language will remain "Macedonian", as Skopje insisted in the talks. The people’s nationality will be defined as "Macedonian/Citizens of the Republic of North Macedonia".

However, the new agreed name, the Republic of North Macedonia, will be used both internationally and domestically, an issue that was a priority for Greece.

Skopje hopes that with a solution in hand, NATO will extend a membership invitation and that the EU will allow the start of accession talks as early as this summer.

The signing ceremony was only the beginning of the end of one of the toughest bilateral disputes in Europe’s recent history.

Several further steps for its practical implementation will follow throughout the rest of this year.

They include the still uncertain ratification of the deal by both parliaments and an even riskier referendum on the deal in Macedonia, which will put Zaev’s government to the test.