Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

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  • Tomche Makedonche
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2011
    • 1123

    Looks like the day may finally come:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.1252ed236386

    Macedonia hopes for quick deal on name dispute with Greece

    SKOPJE, Macedonia — Macedonia’s prime minister is voicing hopes that he and his Greek counterpart can strike a deal Tuesday to settle a 27-year dispute over Macedonia’s name, which has poisoned bilateral relations and hindered NATO expansion.

    Zoran Zaev spoke for an hour Monday with Greece’s Alexis Tsipras and said afterward that a “fair agreement” appeared possible during a phone call scheduled for Tuesday morning.

    Ever since Macedonia gained independence from the former Yugoslavia in 1991, Greece has objected to its name, arguing that it implies claims on its own adjacent province of Macedonia. Macedonia denies that.

    The dispute has frustrated Macedonia’s hopes of joining NATO and the European Union.

    “Probably my optimism about the name issue will be borne out, but it will finally happen when (everything is settled), and I hope that will be (Tuesday),” Zaev told private Telma TV in an interview.

    “Our ultimate goal is to reach a fair agreement,” he added.

    Earlier Monday, Tsipras’ office said the talks with Zaev were conducted “in a good atmosphere” and would be repeated Tuesday. The phone call had been postponed previously in a sign that the two countries were not ready yet for a compromise.

    A new drive to settle the issue was launched this year. The two countries are reportedly discussing a composite name such as New, Upper or Northern Macedonia.

    Zaev has promised to hold a referendum on the agreement.

    https://sputniknews.com/europe/20180...-name-dispute/

    Greek FM: Skopje To Announce New Constitutional Name for Macedonia

    ATHENS (Sputnik) - Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Kotzias said on Monday that Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev had already chosen country's new constitutional name among three proposed options, which are the Republic of New Macedonia, the Republic of Northern Macedonia, and the Republic of Upper Macedonia.

    In an interview with the Greek Kontra TV channel, Kotzias said that Zaev’s choice would be announced on Tuesday, if the Macedonian and Greek prime ministers completed their phone negotiations the same day.

    According to Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras’s office, Zaev and Tsipras held a phone conversation on Monday and agreed to complete it on Tuesday morning.

    Greece and Macedonia are involved in a long-standing dispute over the official name of the Republic of Macedonia. Greece regards "Macedonia" as a term referring only to one of its northern regions and to the ancient Kingdom of Macedonia, and insists on the use of another name for its northern neighbor.

    In the 1995 interim bilateral accord, Greece agreed that the term "the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" (FYROM) would be applied to Macedonia until the dispute was settled. The issue has been blocking Skopje's aspirations to join NATO and the European Union for years.

    In late May, Zaev said that the negotiations between Skopje and Athens on the long-standing issue of Macedonia's name had reached their final stage, and that the new name will be put to public vote in September or October
    “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

    Comment

    • Amphipolis
      Banned
      • Aug 2014
      • 1328

      According to Greek media and Kotzias' interview the name will be North Macedonia and the language will be called Macedonian (but there will be a footnote that this is a Slavic language unrelated to Ancient Greek heritage). The same will be noted about the people.

      He also assumes the Church will be named Archbishopric of Ohrid.

      Comment

      • maco2envy
        Member
        • Jan 2015
        • 288

        I doubt the church will change its name alongside the state. Trust no one

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15660

          Originally posted by maco2envy View Post
          I doubt the church will change its name alongside the state. Trust no one
          The church has been willing to be Serbian and or Bulgarian in the last few years. I would agree and say trust no one.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • maco2envy
            Member
            • Jan 2015
            • 288

            Yeah you're probably right... Anyway, does anyone know what will get passed through parliament that requires 61 MP's? Is it to approve a referendum and/or to make all the changes in the UN? How many seats does the greek parliament require for the agreement?

            Comment

            • Amphipolis
              Banned
              • Aug 2014
              • 1328

              Originally posted by maco2envy View Post
              Yeah you're probably right... Anyway, does anyone know what will get passed through parliament that requires 61 MP's? Is it to approve a referendum and/or to make all the changes in the UN? How many seats does the greek parliament require for the agreement?
              As the smaller government party does not agree with this proposal and most of the opposition is trying to hide, my guess is that Greece will also go to a referendum.

              Last edited by Amphipolis; 06-12-2018, 01:32 AM.

              Comment

              • Solun
                Member
                • Sep 2012
                • 166

                Originally posted by maco2envy View Post
                Борец = borets = fighter

                Translation of the highlighted parts, please?
                You won't get a translation from Amphipolis on this one. The content of the article doesn't fit with his narrative on history.

                Comment

                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332

                  1) ANEL will not agree to term ‘Macedonia,’ MP Kammenos says

                  URL:
                  Independent Greeks (ANEL) lawmaker Dimitris Kammenos on Tuesday reiterated claims that the nationalist party would not back its leftist coalition partner in the Greek government if talks with Skopje come down to a composite name that contains the term “Macedonia.”


                  “If we give Skopje the term ‘Macedonia’ and the ‘Macedonian’ language this will be a historical and monumental defeat for Greece,” Panos Kammenos said.
                  It goes without saying that we would vote against such an agreement,” he added, saying that this issue could be among those on a list that eventually separate the two coalition partners.

                  2) North Macedonia with Macedonian language and Macedonian identity

                  URL:
                  Last edited by Carlin; 06-12-2018, 07:24 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Niko777
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 1895

                    Greek media is reporting the final agreement has been reached today

                    Country Name: "Republic of Northern Macedonia"
                    Nationality on Passports: "Macedonian / Citizen of the Republic of Northern Macedonia"
                    Language: "Macedonian (a language of Slavic origin)"
                    Additional constitutional change: Delete Article 48 which will completely remove any reference to a Macedonian minority outside of its borders

                    Comment

                    • Phoenix
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 4671

                      Originally posted by Niko777
                      Greek media is reporting the final agreement has been reached today

                      Country Name: "Republic of Northern Macedonia"
                      Nationality on Passports: "Macedonian / Citizen of the Republic of Northern Macedonia"
                      Language: "Macedonian (a language of Slavic origin)"
                      Additional constitutional change: Completely remove any reference to a Macedonian minority outside of its borders
                      Not sure if this is a bigger disaster for Macedonia or for greece...if anything it's a win win for the stupidity of both sides...Zaev for being the ultimate Macedonian traitor and sellout, then you have the hapless greeks on slow burn for almost 30 years left with only their donkey stubbornness and cocks in hand...an entire generation of brainwashed greek dickheads must be wondering what the fuck just happened...

                      Comment

                      • TrueMacedonian
                        Banned
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 3823

                        I doubt a name change will occur. These idiots on both sides will bicker and the big F Y R shall remain!

                        Comment

                        • Niko777
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 1895

                          ZAEV about to make the announcement to the Public on the Agreement

                          WATCH LIVE:
                          https://plusinfo.mk/%D0%B2%D0%BE-%D0...-%D0%B7%D0%B0/

                          Comment

                          • Niko777
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 1895

                            It's clear that today Greece has come out the winner.

                            While the government agreed to rename the country "Northern Macedonia", Greece is not renaming their region to "Southern Macedonia".

                            While the Macedonian government agreed to delete from the constitution the reference of Macedonian minorities in neighboring countries, Greece did not change its constitution on Greek minorities in neighboring countries.

                            While special emphasis will be put on the "Slavic" heritage of the people in Northern Macedonia, there will be no emphasis put on the Pontian heritage of people in Southern Macedonia.

                            While the Macedonian government agreed to cut all ties with Ancient Macedonia, the Pontians of Southern Macedonia - a people who were settled in the region in 1923 - have now become the direct descendants of Ancient Macedonia's legacy.

                            Comment

                            • tchaiku
                              Member
                              • Nov 2016
                              • 786

                              Originally posted by Niko777 View Post
                              It's clear that today Greece has come out the winner.

                              While the government agreed to rename the country "Northern Macedonia", Greece is not renaming their region to "Southern Macedonia".

                              While the Macedonian government agreed to delete from the constitution the reference of Macedonian minorities in neighboring countries, Greece did not change its constitution on Greek minorities in neighboring countries.

                              While special emphasis will be put on the "Slavic" heritage of the people in Northern Macedonia, there will be no emphasis put on the Pontian heritage of people in Southern Macedonia.

                              While the Macedonian government agreed to cut all ties with Ancient Macedonia, the Pontians of Southern Macedonia - a people who were settled in the region in 1923 - have now become the direct descendants of Ancient Macedonia's legacy.
                              Pontic Greeks were not more than 20% of Macedonia's population after the population exchange.

                              Comment

                              • TrueMacedonian
                                Banned
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 3823

                                Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                                Pontic Greeks were not more than 20% of Macedonia's population after the population exchange.
                                Yeah I’m sure the other 80% were ethnic “Greek” right?

                                Comment

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