Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Tomche Makedonche]

https://europeanwesternbalkans.com/2018/06/07/hutchison-nato-ready-accession-talks-will-protect-macedonia-russia/

Hutchison: NATO ready for accession talks, will protect Macedonia from Russia

WASHINGTON – The outcome of the name talks is anticipated at NATO headquarters in Brussels. Macedonia meets all the conditions, the final step is completing the name negotiations for Macedonia to begin NATO accession process at the upcoming summit in July, said US Permanent Representative to NATO Kay Bailey Hutchison.

“From the previous summits, it is clear that NATO is ready to start the accession talks with Macedonia once the name issue is resolved. I believe that the ministers in both countries are working very hard to reach a mutually acceptable solution to the name issue. Once an agreement is reached and the key requirement is fulfilled, I think that Macedonia will start the process of accession to NATO. NATO was clear that Macedonia meets the requirements, except for the name and as soon as this is resolved, we wish for Macedonia to be an equal partner. The United States strongly supports the accession of Macedonia and we hope that this will happen at the upcoming Summit, but what is now required of both countries is to complete the negotiations and pave the way for Macedonia’s accession”, said Hutchison.

The ambassador said that the Alliance will do everything possible to protect Macedonia from what it calls Russian aggression, even though the country’s admission to the organization has not yet begun due to the unsettled name issue, RIA News reports.

“If the name dispute is not resolved by the NATO summit is over and the procedure for the country’s admission is not started, we will continue to work to protect the country from any harmful influences. We have close working relations with Macedonia, and in NATO we will do everything possible to help the country resist the devastating influence by Russia, whether it is a hybrid war or any other activity”, said Hutchison.

The NATO summit will be held in early July in Brussels

[Tomche Makedonche]

http://www.balkaneu.com/decisive-hours-for-the-solution-of-the-name-dispute-encouraging-messages/

Decisive hours for the solution of the name dispute, encouraging messages

Encouraging messages have been issued ahead of the telephone conversation expected to take place between PM Zoran Zaev and PM Alexis Tsipras for the solution of the name contest.

The US ambassador to Skopje, Jess Baily said that the US supports a solution which would be in favour of both countries and the region.

“The negotiations between the two countries continue. The US and the EU hope that these negotiations will yield a joint acceptable solution that people have long waited for”, ambassador Baily said.

Meanwhile, former minister of Foreign Affairs, Antonio Milososki has posted on Facebook that besides the package that includes the name “Republic of Northern Macedonia”, last night, Greece has also put forward two extra requests, which were not part of the draft agreement reached by Kotzias and Dimitrov in Brussels.

One of these requests states that the country’s language should not be written “Macedonian”, as it has been registered at the UN, but “Makedonski” in Latin letters and without translation. Also, it has been demanded that the country should not obtain an invitation to become a NATO member without first holding a referendum and amending the Constitution. According to him, the third option is for the agreement to be postponed several months.

Deputy PM for European Affairs, Bujar Osmani said today during the meeting with the EU head of diplomacy, Federica Mogherini that the hours to come may be crucial for the result of the negotiations.

Media in Skopje report that if Zaev accepts the 20 page drafted agreement, the contest of the name will be resolved. Otherwise, the negotiations will fail.

[Carlin]

Во 5 до 12 Грција испорачува нови услови за договорот

URL:

https://vecer.mk/makedonija/vo-5-do-12-grcija-isporachuva-novu-uslovi-za-dogovorot

According to A. Miloshoski Greece requested two additional requirements.

Miloshoski states that the name deal is basically:
- Republic of Northern Macedonia
- Nationality: of the Republic of Northern Macedonia

In addition to the above, he says that the two additional Greek Requests are:

1) For the language NOT to be written as Macedonian (as it currently stands in the UN), but written/entered only as makedonski, in the Latin alphabet and without any translation.
2) Macedonia should first organize a referendum, which should (must) pass, change the Constitution at the same time - and only after this is completed, to wait for an invitation to NATO and EU membership.

(The third option is for the negotiations to be postponed for several months.)

I also happened to catch this today - from C. Chilimanov.


And this from yesterday.


The following article, in Macedonian, is by Risto Nikovski.

Дали „илинденска Македонија“ беше измама за ерга омнес?

URL:

https://www.novamakedonija.com.mk/pecateno-izdanie/%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8-%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0-%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%88%D0%B5-%D0%B8/

Kanal 5 news from June 7, 2018:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQGdoj236YY

[maco2envy]

Greece should rename their northern province to prosfygasmakedonia without translation

[Stojacanec]

Dear Greece, change your constitution and identity in the Macedonian region of Greece then we will talk...

[Carlin]

ΤΟ ΒΗΜΑ article - URL:
http://www.tovima.gr/en/article/?aid=988104

The only serious and real threat to Greece, as one sees daily, comes from Turkey

Friday, June 08, 2018

We have had enough of shadow boxing with the past on the FYROM naming issue. What happened ten, twenty, or thirty years ago is of little import today.

It is obvious historically that Greece lost an historic opportunity to achieve a nationally beneficial composite name, because sentimental outbursts and national passions dominated the issue, due to the fleeting ulterior motives of persons and political parties.

Citizens may be entitled to express their emotions and concerns, legitimate or not. But political leaders are obliged to place the national and geopolitical interests of the country first. They must not be subjugated to populist conceptions and vote-mongering motivations.

That is exactly what is being served today by a sterile, dead end obsession with the past, which is being fueled by the country’s chief negotiator.

Many media outlets also bear responsibility for this climate, as they invest in the exploitation of patriotism and the emotional charge of a segment of Greek society. This futile battle, at a moment when for the first time we are supposed to be close to a solution which ensures our national interests, leads only to the fueling of political passions.

The government and the opposition have a duty to make clear to the citizenry that Skopje is not a threat to our country. A mutually acceptable solution ensures the security and stability of the broader Balkan region.

The only serious and real threat to Greece, as one sees daily, comes from Turkey.

We have every reason to close this open wound on our northern borders.

A small country that is seeking to become a member of Nato and the EU, and which seeks cooperation, does not have the capability to ever threaten our country.

Let us then leave aside the fears and concerns of the past, and gaze upon the future with clear eyes.

[Bill77]

Legal battle kicks off – Macedonia Timeless: People are appealing UN for protection of the name “Macedonia"

Brilliantly written.

http://english.republika.mk/legal-battle-kicks-off-macedonia-timeless-people-are-appealing-un-for-protection-of-the-name-macedonia/

[vicsinad]

It is well written. Hope it finds some success.

Oh, and just a moment of pause:

United Macedonian Diaspora -- Representing 180,000 Macedonians worldwide

[Carlin]

Greece can't force us to change our name, we Macedonians have our dignity

CVETIN CHILIMANOV, 2 DAYS AGO

https://www.trtworld.com/opinion/gre...-dignity-17996

Macedonia is being threatened with isolation by Greece unless it changes the name of its country - is this the mark of a good neighbour?

As of this writing, there are roughly even odds that the prime ministers of Macedonia and Greece, Zoran Zaev and Alexis Tsipras, will sign some kind of a treaty that is supposed to put an end to the nearly 30-year name dispute, and allow Macedonia to join NATO and open accession talks with the European Union.

This is the optimistic view taken by European and American diplomats and the left wing parties in both countries, who are pushing for this agreement. The reality is that the signing of a document will solve nothing, in fact, it will likely make relations between the two countries worse.

The issue looks absurd to foreign observers, but to people involved in the Balkans, it is very real and clear. It is clearly not just a fight for the name, 'Macedonia'. The Balkan countries that were formed in the 19th and 20th century fought bitterly amongst each other after the Ottoman Empire withdrew from the Balkans.

Greece, Serbia, and to a lesser extent Bulgaria, began a brief and intensely violent land grab, that started directly after WWI, and was later followed by a long period of fear, worry and anxiety about whether they will be able to hold on to the territories they snatched, after growing so large in such little time.

Clearly these countries, for most of their existence, were not democratic and open-minded enough to rule over the various peoples and religions they conquered, and instead relied on oppression, colonisation and assimilation to support their gains.

Serbia is the best known and most extreme case - it went to war with Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo to keep the territory it took in the early 1900s.

The Greek approach is very similar. They also insist on having a uniform, homogenous, exclusively Greek and Orthodox Christian state, but the reality on the ground, as well as their future demographic and economic developments, guarantee that this model is unsustainable even in the near term.

Therefore we see the extremes of Greek nationalism mobilising against Macedonia, Turkey and Albania, and against other ethnic groups living in Greece and against other, smaller minorities like the Roma.

Greece also bans Turks living in its territory from calling themselves Turks, but instead insists on using the name Muslims. These are the symptoms of a weakening, decaying regional power, which is constantly looking over its borders at real or imaginary threats.

Specifically, with regard to Macedonia, it fears for the future of the part of historic Macedonia which has only for the past 100 years been part of Greek territory.

Greece has settled this region with ethnic Greeks that moved there during the population swap with Turkey in the 1920s (hence all the town names like Nea Marmaris and Nea Mudanya), and has followed up on this with an expulsion of ethnic Macedonians from the regions of Solun, Kukush and Kavala, and the forced assimilation of Macedonians in Voden, Lerin and Kostur.

Greece fears that a prosperous Republic of Macedonia may lead to a renewal of this suppressed Macedonian identity to its north, and has worked for decades to try and keep Macedonia poor, unrecognised internationally and unintegrated with Europe.

The gamble has backfired, as it is Greece, not Macedonia, that went bankrupt. Supported by its international friends, including Turkey, Macedonia has been able to grow and develop itself.

Macedonians proved that you can prosper even if you are outside of the European Union, while Greece proved that you can destroy yourself while being inside.

The supreme irony of the latest push to "resolve the name issue" is in that it is being made by two parties who do not represent the people of Macedonia nor Greece.

Neither Zaev, as Prime Minister of Macedonia or his Greek counterpart Tsipras are representative of the Macedonians who were expelled from Greece, or of the Greek settlers to Macedonia, and can not assure them that a deal will be just and sustainable.

This is a project led by a group of outgoing American and European diplomats, who want Macedonia as a full EU and NATO member and have proven they are willing to violate the rule of law, make faustian bargains and deeply frustrate the dignity of the Macedonian people in order to do it.

This is not a recipe for having a stable partnership. Any name change imposed from the outside will lead to an endless push to rename: companies, towns and locations in Macedonia, ban/rewrite books and songs, engineer the collective memory of an entire people in a top down fashion, down to personal names and commonly used words. Such an unnatural request was never made of any people.

Countries have changed their names, willingly, often to drop a colonial-era imposed name or identity. But forcing the huge majority of Macedonians who have no intention to accept a new and made up identity and collective memory is a tortured insult that will not bring any stability in the region, quite the contrary, it can only deepen divisions, anger and mistrust.



Re: Chilimanov's article from Feb 8 of this year
https://medium.com/@Cvetin/long-read...e-4e5824917891

[vicsinad]

I'm curious to know why he downplayed Bulgaria's role in its "land grabbing" attempts. Is that a reflection of his understanding of history, or a reflection of his political/identity beliefs?

My understanding of history is that Bulgaria was just as persistent as the others in pursuing Macedonian land, if not the initial culprit starting in the 1870s.

[Niko777]

I'm curious to know why he downplayed Bulgaria's role in its "land grabbing" attempts. Is that a reflection of his understanding of history, or a reflection of his political/identity beliefs?

My understanding of history is that Bulgaria was just as persistent as the others in pursuing Macedonian land, if not the initial culprit starting in the 1870s.

Perhaps he has Bulgarian citizenship.

[Carlin]

1) On a serious note, according to Frchkoski the deal has been reached but what's holding it up is the implementation and how to sell it to the Macedonian people.


URL:

https://vecer.mk/makedonija/frchkoski-problem-e-ushte-samo-kako-da-im-se-prodade-novoto-drzhavno-ime-na-makedoncite

2) Преговорите за името не се во криза, се работи на документот

URL:

https://plusinfo.mk/%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5-%D0%B7%D0%B0-%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BE-%D0%BD%D0%B5-%D1%81%D0%B5-%D0%B2%D0%BE-%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B0-%D1%81%D0%B5/

Преговорите со Грција за спорот за името не се во криза, тврди за Плусинфо извор добро упатен во преговарачкиот процес.

По дводневните шпекулации за тоа дека преговорите наводно пропаднале, или дека се во тешка криза, Плусинфо вечерва со прецизни информации за тоа што се случува со преговарачкиот процес.

– Преговарачкиот процес продолжува. Се работи на документот и затоа е потребно уште извесно време за финализирање на договорот – вели нашиот извор.

Според него, шпекулациите дека преговарачкиот процес е пропаднат се неточни и му штетат на процесот.

[Carlin]

Nikos Kotzias confirmed not long ago that Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras is expecting a crucial phone call from his counterpart Zoran Zaev. “The phone call will be held today,” Kotzias told journalists waiting outside Maximos Mansion where he rushed this morning.

https://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/politika/kodzijas-potvrdi-cipras-i-zaev-kje-razgovaraat-deneska

https://sdk.mk/index.php/makedonija/ke-bide-deneska-kazha-kozijas-za-telefonskiot-razgovor-megu-tsipras-zaev/

http://www.ekathimerini.com/229493/article/ekathimerini/news/kotzias-confirms-tsipras-is-waiting-call-from-fyroms-zaev-on-name-talks

[Niko777]

Kotzias repeated several times that the agreement would clearly show that "the neighboring country has nothing to do with antiquity and ancient Macedonia, and the language belongs to the Slavic group of languages."

Source: https://lokalno.mk/kozijas-go-naprav...tifikatsijata/

[Tomche Makedonche]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/after-name-row--macedonia-faces-revising-how-to-teach-its-history----10418810

After name row, Macedonia faces revising how to teach its history

SKOPJE: From piles of toys cluttering the attic of his family home in Skopje, Nikola Cvetoski eventually extracts the "Legend of Ancient Macedonia".

With this big, red book written by a local politician and published two years after Macedonia's 1991 independence, "society told us that everything we had been taught was no longer the truth," he told AFP

"Suddenly, the schools were demanding that students buy this book," fumed the 65-year-old retired mechanic, who grew up during Josip Broz Tito's regime when Macedonia was part of communist Yugoslavia.

Macedonia's history textbooks now look set for another overhaul as the Balkans country closes in on a settlement with neighbouring Greece in a decades-long, bitter dispute over the right to call itself the Republic of Macedonia.

But revising the national narrative, built up over more than two decades, may prove harder than changing the country's name.

"NATIONAL ROMANTICISM"

Under Tito, a common Yugoslav identity was promoted that eclipsed learning at school in Macedonia about the likes of ancient warrior king Alexander III of Macedon, better known as Alexander the Great, and his father Philip II.

But after the war-torn former Yugoslav Federation disintegrated during the 1990s, Macedonia like other Balkan countries saw a return of old nationalist sentiments that had been hushed by Tito's regime.

Historian Todor Cepreganov said there was a "renewal of a national romanticism" in Macedonia, which would be boosted by right-wing leader Nikola Gruevski's grip on power from 2006 to 2016.

As a result, Macedonian history textbooks started to look quite different.

By the 2011 edition, pupils aged 11 and 12 learned how, in the Macedonian state under Philip, the ancient king had "conquered the Hellenic colonies".

And that his son, "Alexander the Macedonian", had "managed to defeat them (the Greeks), forcing them to recognise his authority", the textbook reads.

Indeed, even if reconciliation now looks on the cards with Greece in the name row, both countries continue to stake a claim to Alexander the Great.

WHAT'S IN A NAME?

For more than a quarter of a century, Greece and Macedonia have rowed over the right of the former Yugoslav republic to call itself Macedonia, which Athens objects to because it has its own northern province of that name.

Greece fears the name, Republic of Macedonia, may imply territorial ambitions and also accuses Skopje of trying to usurp the heritage of the ancient Macedonians and stake a claim to Alexander the Great.

After recent talks between the two neighbours, a resolution may now be close.

But the longer term challenge could be how to recast the way Macedonians have been taught -- literally through their history textbooks -- to view and feel about their own history and culture.

For national celebrations, Macedonian children are dressed in clothes resembling those from ancient times. Some of their parents, meanwhile, view Macedonians not as Slavs but rather direct descendants of Philip and Alexander.

"BRAINWASHING"

Higher education has not been spared either.

In a 2010 archeology textbook from the eastern Goce Delcev University in Stip, "ancient Macedonia" is described as the "Balkans region where Macedonians were reigning", and not as part of Greece, although it became the dominant state of Hellenistic Greece.

For Damjan Todorovski, a 59-year-old teacher from the southwestern city of Bitola, all "textbooks introduced after 2006 contained systematic brainwashing, not education".

"There was no Macedonian state until 1945 ... What are we talking about?" said Sonja Trajanovska, a pupil's mother in her 40s from Skopje.

"I will not allow my child to be indoctrinated by nationalism and falsified history."

Prime Minister Zoran Zaev's Social Democrats (SDSM) pledged shortly after taking office last September to undertake a complete revision of textbooks.

"ANGERS THE GREEKS"

"One cannot impose on our children assumptions and hatred, notably towards our neighbours," said Petar Atanasov, tasked with education within the SDSM.

"But this should be done by experts and professors, not politicians," he added.

Teachers, especially the younger ones who themselves have been educated during the last couple of decades, need to accept a new change of direction in the teaching of Macedonian history.

"An eternity will be needed to repair the damage," warned 87-year-old retired history teacher Marija Veskova.

But her 28-year-old peer Natasa, who refused to give her surname, is worried.

"I don't understand why we should be ashamed of what we are. Alexander was Macedonian. And we are afraid to say it since it angers the Greeks."