Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Pelagonija]

Perhaps this is what has been delaying the agreement on the Macedonian side, the fact that Greece is objecting the English translation. Adding a star beside nationality with a side note that it is Slavic seems ridiculous, and if the Macedonian side doesn't reject that, surely the Albanians will. And maybe it's the Albanians too who are objecting "Severna Makedonija" if it cannot be translated in their language.

Not sure if it’s relevant, Zaev sent an appeal to Ivanov yesterday asking him to implement the Albanian language law.

Something is in the pipeline.

[Pelagonija]

It happened. Last years Anti DPMNE protests "allegedly" funded by Soros via his NGO funded organizations in Macedonia, that was also hijacked by SDSM, were plastered for days on every media outlet available worldwide. Also from memory, the meddling Jess Baily took part in these marches amongst other foreign officials.

Yeah it all seemed rather artificial, uprisings just don’t happen in FYROM as our people in modern times are retarded and incapable of intelligent thought.

In FYROM it was all to automated and fake. Remember seeing a Sheila in short shorts walking up to the police barracade and kissing the coppers shield with leaving lip stick, I thought geez there is something really fake about this.

The western media coverage was intensive and constantly overestimating the numbers and motive.

[Odi Zvezdo]

The Macedonian government should agree on the text of the agreement by June 9th. This is the request that was sent to Prime Minister Zoran Zaev by the United States, we learn from unofficial diplomatic sources.

According to unofficial information, with the agreement that was reached for the Ilinden Macedonia package, an "exchange" is being done - erga omnes using the new name, and in turn, the Macedonian language and identity remains. But the question was whether there will be a star in the brackets [nationality] and [language], explaining that it is of Slavic origin that has no relation to the origin of the population in Greek Macedonia.

But Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Kotzias said in the last night's interview with the Greek television ERT that there are three names on the table, Northern, Upper and New Macedonia, explaining that the Macedonian side rejected Vardar Macedonia, and it is known that at the start of the negotiations Athens rejected the Republic of Macedonia (Skopje). He did not want to reveal what the agreed name was and said "it's included in the package and will be announced by the two prime ministers. Kotzias also did not answer whether the name is Northern Macedonia, as it is speculated in the media.

URL:

https://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/politika/zaev-treba-da-dade-soglasnost-za-dogovorot-za-imeto-do-9-juni

Vecer is also reporting that the agreement will be reached/signed by June 9th. Unsure how accurate, but Vecer is reporting that the agreed name is actually Northern Macedonia, apparently written only as Severna Makedonija without the possibility/ability for translation into English or other (world) languages. The language will be defined as the Language of the citizens of Republika Severna Makedonija, slovenski jazik.

URL:
https://vecer.mk/makedonija/ochekuva...o-drzhavno-ime

Can't see this happening....the other day when he came out stating Illinden Macedonia he quoted the name in 3 languages...The Republic of Northern Macedonia will be the likely outcome with Macedonian* with the asterisk noting of the Slavic Group of Languages will be the most likely outcome..At the rate we're group with the law of languages we may as well ask Greece to change the name to Maqedoni!!! That way it appeases the Greeks, it appeases the Albanians and our European Fyromians...

[Risto the Great]

My motherinlaw just returned from a trip to Stari Krai. She was saying there is a genuine belief in Greece that if Macedonia keeps its name, it will eventually try to take over northern Greece. It appears "sheepism" is the curse of the Balkans.

[Phoenix]

...The Republic of Northern Macedonia will be the likely outcome with Macedonian* with the asterisk noting of the Slavic Group of Languages will be the most likely outcome...

Macedonian is already known universally as a branch of the slavic languages...I don't see the purpose of any use of a qualifier to make this point...I suspect that the sticking point is something far more sinister and that's the manic insistence of the greeks to have the name of country, nationality and language in a binding non-translatable (to English) form, that will do nothing but to engineer a totally new identity.

If Zaev thinks this is a win, he needs to remove himself...or be removed.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Greek perspective on untranslated name change, as usual, Racial slurs have been edited and noted in Italic

http://www.ekathimerini.com/229277/o...ish-not-slavic

Northern or New Macedonia, in English, not Slavic

Very few Greeks, if any at all, are keen to see Macedonia use the term “Macedonia.” However, that battle was lost 25 years ago. The uncomfortable fact is that over the past decades, virtually all countries around the world have officially recognized Greece’s northern neighbor as the “Republic of Macedonia.” Political leaders and ordinary people refer to the former Yugoslav republic as “Macedonia” at every opportunity.

In a sense, and despite Greece’s diplomatic success in 1994 to have the Balkan country accepted into the United Nations as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), all those years even Greeks have been using a name that includes the term “Macedonia.”

Athens’s diplomatic objective at the moment is – or should be – to limit the damage that was inflicted decades ago. Today, for the first time in a quarter of a century, there are prospects of a change to the country’s name. The outcome of course is not certain. However, there is still the prospect of a deal entailing an addition to the name of a qualifier – most likely “Northern” or “New,” which this writer considers the least negative solution.

At stake for any Greek who is naturally annoyed at the use of the term “Macedonia” should not be what name Greece eventually decides to use to refer to its northern neighbor. Anyone who really believes that this is at the core of the ongoing dispute, at best, fails to understand what is really at stake here or, at worse, puts him or herself in the service of other ends that are contradictory to the national interest.

The key issue at stake is what Macedonia will be known as internationally. In light of the above, Greek efforts to reach an agreement on a Slavic version of the name, although understandable, would have the opposite effect. From a practical point of view, such an agreement would not be workable. That is because third parties would be very unlikely to adopt a name such as for example “Severna Makedonija” (Northern Macedonia).

It would be good news for Athens if the international community were to endorse and use a name of that sort, in Slavic, but that is not going to happen. In the end they would just go for the more convenient English version – just plain “Macedonia.”

On the other hand, the “Northern” or “New” prefixes before “Macedonia” are practical, they have been used in the case of other nations’ names (i.e. New Zealand, North Korea), and, hence, they are more likely to be adopted by governments and citizens of third countries.

[Niko777]

it will eventually try to take over northern Greece.

They're probably right, it will eventually try to take over northern Greece... in the form of Greater Albania

[Risto the Great]

In a truly "Ventilatorial" fashion, part of me thinks RoMacedonians will eventually call Severna Makedonija a victory against the Albanians because it will only be allowed to be spelled in this way ... and ... since an English translation will not be allowed, an Albanian translation will also not be allowed. WINNING!

[Bill77]

In a truly "Ventilatorial" fashion, part of me thinks RoMacedonians will eventually call Severna Makedonija a victory against the Albanians because it will only be allowed to be spelled in this way ... and ... since an English translation will not be allowed, an Albanian translation will also not be allowed. WINNING!

Until Shiptars pop a few guns and Europe come giving them big hugs,
Then we will see 'Severna Veri Makedonija" (thanks to google translate for veri) written on passports, border welcoming street signs etc. Followed by excuses "moravme'

[Risto the Great]

Maybe "Very Macedonia" is better Bill? Keeps everyone happy!

[Carlin]

It's interesting to take a look at this piece from 2008, by Stavros Lygeros: The case for Upper Macedonia. It explains why Greeks were/are for Upper Macedonia (Gorna Makedonija) as opposed to any other names.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/55906/article/ekathimerini/comment/the-case-for-upper-macedonia

"North Macedonia is not necessarily wrong, but it has the problem of being associated with divided nations such as Korea and Vietnam. Then there's New Macedonia, a proposal intended to distinguish Rep. of Macedonia from ancient Macedonia. But «New» connotes a tie with rather than a contradistinction with ancient Macedonia."

[Bill77]

“The recognition of our constitutional name…represents true support to our sovereignty, identity and is a major contribution to a lasting regional stability.” President Boris Trajkovski, speech to Macedonian Parliament, December 21, 2001



Wasn't a huge fan of him at the time. But god i miss him now.

[Bill77]

Maybe "Very Macedonia" is better Bill? Keeps everyone happy!

lol


But all jokes aside, we might just have another variant (if not internationally, but domestic use) which would use something in Albanian.

Why am i thinking this? well im just trying to add up the next two reports and i don't like the answer i came up with.

Zaev again urges Ivanov to sign Language Law
http://english.republika.mk/zaev-aga...-language-law/

+

Zaev: Name solution to be acceptable for all ethnic communities
http://english.republika.mk/zaev-nam...c-communities/

= Albanian language to be second official language is desperately being pushed during name negotiations..... together with a name solution acceptable for all ethnic communities (we know he means particularly the Shiptari) smells like a set up for a constitutional legal excuse to have a variant using something in the Albanian language.



PS: regarding this idiotic "Name solution to be acceptable for all ethnic communities" shit...... Republic of Macedonia has been acceptable to all of the ethnic communities in Macedonia from the beginning.

[Risto the Great]

“The recognition of our constitutional name…represents true support to our sovereignty, identity and is a major contribution to a lasting regional stability.” President Boris Trajkovski, speech to Macedonian Parliament, December 21, 2001



Wasn't a huge fan of him at the time. But god i miss him now.

They killed him off pretty quickly thereafter.

[Tomche Makedonche]

https://www.rferl.org/a/macedonia-greece-name-dispute-zaev-optimistic/29278975.html

Macedonia’s Zaev Sees Deal On Name Dispute Despite Opposition

Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev says he is optimistic a dispute with Greece over the former Yugoslav republic’s name will be settled soon, despite continued opposition in both countries.

“I remain optimistic, although it is not easy. It is a very delicate and important issue," Zaev said on June 7.

“It is important that this solution is a sustainable and viable one and also 100% guaranteed for the future generations,” he added.

The dispute dates back to 1991, when Macedonia peacefully broke away from Yugoslavia, declaring its independence under the name Republic of Macedonia.

Athens objected to its neighbor's new name, saying it implied a territorial claim over Greece's province of the same name, which borders the Balkan country.

Because of Greek objections, Macedonia was admitted to the UN under a provisional name, Former Yugolsav Republic of Macedonia.

Greece, an EU and NATO member, has also cited the dispute to veto Macedonia's bid to join the two organizations.

The two sides are now close to a compromise name that will almost certainly contain the term "Macedonia," such as "New Macedonia," "Northern Macedonia," or "Upper Macedonia."

But nationalists in both countries oppose a compromise, and several rallies have been held against a deal.

On June 6, thousands of people protested in main cities across Greece against the compromise, while, four days earlier, like numbers of supporters of Macedonia's right-wing opposition VMRO-DPMNE party took to the streets of the capital, Skopje, to protest against a deal.