Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Niko777]

You guys prefer FYROM over Ilinden Macedonia?

No one prefers FYROM over anything. But FYROM is not in the constitution. Greece is demanding the constitution be changed when a new name is accepted.

[Risto the Great]

This is all so demeaning for Macedonians. I'm disgusted.

[Bill77]

Greece rejects 'Ilinden Macedonia' outright and most likely, Tsipras will have to break off the talks.

If there are any words i can use, i guess it is Thank you Greece.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Republika Ilindenska Makedonija

Source: http://www.ekathimerini.com/228785/a...nden-macedonia

Source: https://kanal5.com.mk/articles/33518...va-site-grizhi

I didn’t think this was a legitimate proposal but just some more of the usual sensationalist fake news coming from the depravity of the Balkan media outlets. Now I realise that there isnt one sane person in the Zaev government with a clue about anything if this was the trump card they have been holding on to.

Why not “Veligden Macedonia”... or better yet, “Sekoj Den Macedonia”

Why not just fucken kill yourselves

[Phoenix]

Greece rejects 'Ilinden Macedonia' outright, Tsipras' cabinet demands a geographical or time-bound reference
http://vesti.mk/read/article/5504429...nska-odrednica

Perhaps I've missed something in the last 20+ years of mind numbing stupidity regarding the 'name issue' but today is the first time that I noticed a reference to a requirement for a "time-bound" qualifier as a possible solution to the insoluble...?

[Amphipolis]

SOME in Greece have suggested they would accept a "time-bound" qualifier (e.g. New Macedonia). Bakoyianni has supported it in the past, Tsipras seems ready for any compromise but the opposition would never agree.

[Phoenix]

SOME in Greece have suggested they would accept a "time-bound" qualifier (e.g. New Macedonia). Bakoyianni has supported it in the past, Tsipras seems ready for any compromise but the opposition would never agree.

I consider "Ilinden" a time-bound qualifier as well...but Ilinden would never fit the demented 'Tito' narrative that you clowns cling to...

Lets address the elephant in the room...the only name you will accept is the one that has no reference to Macedonia or the one that places Macedonia as a new and artificial construct...further proof that it's not too late to withdraw from these ridiculous negotiations...

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here is the moron next to his fellow "patriot" talking about the new idiotic recommendation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZrLKFM9h18

This is the fool that people in Macedonia elected as PM, a person who uses the historic identity of the nation as a gambling chip.

[Niko777]

The only thing the Macedonian media has been focusing on today is what should be the correct pronunciation of Ilindenska in the Albanian language, some say "Ilindentase" and others "Ilindite" ....because this is the #1 issue in the country right now....

[Carlin]

Macedonian Government is not giving up on "Republic of Ilinden Macedonia" - Владата не се откажува од „Република Илинденска Македонија“

https://telma.com.mk/vladata-ne-se-otkazhuva-od-republika-ilindenska-makedonija/

[Tomche Makedonche]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/macedonian-pm-says-agreement-on-new-name-reached-with-greece/2018/05/19/9b024a6e-5b9b-11e8-9889-07bcc1327f4b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.059b46d55b4b

Macedonian PM says Greece agrees to discuss proposed name

SKOPJE, Macedonia — Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev said Saturday he is ready to go ahead with a new name for his country in order to solve a decades-long name dispute with Greece and pave the way for full integration of the small Balkan country into the European Union and NATO.

But Greek political leaders briefed by Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras rejected the Macedonian proposal outright and the Greek government itself, in a response to Zaev’s remarks, was evasive about the particular name proposal.

Zaev said that “Republic of Ilindenska Macedonia” is the compromise name acceptable to both sides. The adjective “Ilindenska,” meaning, literally, “the day of the prophet Elijah” refers to a 1903 uprising against Turkish occupiers.

“With this possible solution, we preserve the dignity, we confirm and strengthen our Macedonian identity,” Zaev said, but added that final say on the new name will be put to a referendum.

Zaev reiterated that Macedonia has no territorial claims to its southern neighbor and confirmed the inviolability of the borders. “Macedonia is ready to confirm this in all necessary ways,” Zaev said

Macedonia was a part of the former Yugoslavia and declared independence in 1991. Greece claims the country’s name implies territorial designs on its northern province of Macedonia.

He also said that with the new name proposal “we make a complete distinction with the Macedonia region in Greece”.

In Athens, premier Tsipras briefed Greece’s president and opposition leaders. All the opposition leaders said the name “Ilinden Macedonia” was unacceptable because, as Communist Party leader Dimitris Koutsoumbas said, it is “neither a geographical nor a temporal” designation, as agreed in nearly two decades of talks mediated by the United Nations. Some opposition leaders called the proposal a provocation on Macedonia’s part.

A statement released by the Greek government reflected its ambivalence about the name.

“We welcome the acceptance by (the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) that a solution to the nomenclature cannot exist without the adoption of ... a name for all uses,” the statement said, meaning that Macedonians could not simply call their country “Macedonia” domestically, while having another name for international use

“However, we encourage our neighbors to continue working together to find a commonly accepted name with a geographical or temporal designation, just as the package of proposals tabled by the UN Special Envoy, Matthew Nimetz, also provides,” the Greek statement added.

Zaev did not have an easy time with his country’s opposition leaders, either.

The leader of the main conservative opposition VMRO-DPMNE party Hristijan Mickoski said after meeting with Zaev that his party is against the name change. He reiterated that his party will not support a change of the constitution and of Macedonia’s constitutional name “Republic of Macedonia”.

Zaev has urged Macedonians to support the proposed name.

[Tomche Makedonche]

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/greece-calls-for-constitutional-revision-to-resolve-macedonia-name-dispute

Greece calls for constitutional revision to resolve Macedonia name dispute

The name row between Greece and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia has taken yet another turn.

A 27-year name row between Greece and Macedonia cannot be resolved without constitutional revision in the neighbouring country, Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras said Saturday amid hopes for a June deal.

Two days after a closely watched meeting with his Macedonia counterpart Zoran Zaev, Tsipras said a constitutional revision to eliminate "all forms of irredentism" was a "necessary precondition."

"As regards the debate surrounding (Macedonia's) name, the government will not enter more specific talks if the above requirements are not fulfilled first," Tsipras' office said in a statement.

In a speech to his party later Saturday, Tsipras said the countries were "closer than ever before" to a solution.

"We must not lose this historic opportunity. Let's not make clumsy steps in the final metres to the finish line," he said.

The name dispute between the two countries dates back to 1991, when Skopje declared independence from war-torn Yugoslavia.

Athens objects to the neighbouring state's constitutional name, Republic of Macedonia, because Greece has its own northern province called Macedonia, and fears it may imply territorial ambitions.

Greece wants the change of name to be backed with a constitutional change and for it to be applied on the "erga omnes" ("towards all") legal principle, meaning universal use inside and outside Macedonia.

But even with the support of the ethnic Albanian minority parties, Zaev's government does not have a majority to pass a constitutional change in parliament.

In an apparent attempt to break the impasse, Zaev on Thursday suggested to Tsipras a new name proposal -- Republic of Ilinden Macedonia.

"The prime minister and Zoran Zaev are discussing the name 'Ilinden Macedonia'," main opposition leader Kyriakos Mitsotakis said Friday, after a briefing from Tsipras.

"We were discussing many options and we agreed on one that is acceptable for both sides," Zaev said on Thursday, without giving further detail.

Reference to Ilinden, a 1903 uprising against the Ottoman Empire and a key event for Macedonia's national identity, is apparently aimed at securing support from Zaev's nationalist opponents in parliament towards a possible deal.

Later in the day, however, the Greek PM's office said the chosen name had to have a "geographical or chronological qualifier," apparently disqualifying the latest proposal.

Such names already put forward and in discussion include 'New Macedonia' and 'Upper Macedonia'.

Athens has said it will only compromise on a name as part of an overall deal covering related issues, such as the official name of the landlocked Balkan country's language.

"In these negotiations, you either agree on everything or on nothing," Tsipras said this week, leaving open the possibility of a new meeting with Zaev in early June.

He noted that the next milestone is a meeting of European foreign ministers on June 25, where Macedonia hopes to receive a possible date to begin EU accession talks.

[Tomche Makedonche]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-macedonia-greece-name/macedonias-main-opposition-party-rejects-proposal-for-new-country-name-idUSKCN1IL0G0

Macedonia's main opposition party rejects proposal for new country name

SKOPJE (Reuters) - Macedonia’s main opposition party, the nationalist VMRO-DPMNE, said it was against changing the country’s name to Republic of Ilinden Macedonia, undermining prospects for a solution of a decades-long dispute with Greece

Macedonia’s NATO and EU accession process has been blocked by Greece which disputes the former Yugoslav republic’s name, saying it implies a territorial claim over its northern province of the same name.

Prime Minister Zoran Zaev and his Greek counterpart Alexis Tsipras discussed the proposal on the sidelines of the Western Balkan-EU summit in Sofia last week

However, Zaev would need the support of VMRO-DPNE for any change of name to take effect. Tsipras is also struggling to win political backing for the plan in Greece.

Zaev’s coalition needs to secure a two-thirds majority in the 120-seat parliament to get backing for constitutional changes required to get the new name approved.

“VMRO-DPNE,will not support a change to the constitution with the goal to change the constitutional name,” party leader Hristijan Mickoski said on Sunday afternoon after meeting Zaev.

For Macedonians Ilinden, or August 2 is a symbolic date - in 1903, the region rose against Ottoman rule, while on the same day in 1944 foundations were laid for establishing of the republic of Macedonia within the Former Yugoslavia.

For his part, Tsipras failed to secure support from his coalition ally and the opposition parties on Saturday.

His ally, the small right-wing Independent Greeks party, has repeatedly said that it will not back any name that includes the term ‘Macedonia’, while the main opposition conservative New Democracy party said the name was “unacceptable.”

But on Sunday afternoon Zaev said: “With this name we are making a full distinction from the region Macedonia in Greece, distinction in every aspect.”

Both Macedonia and Greece are under pressure to resolve the dispute, as Western countries see the region’s integration into the EU and NATO as a way to improve stability 20 years after the decade of wars in the 1990s.

[Tomche Makedonche]

LOL I had to quote the following from this Greek Media outlet because I couldn't stop laughing at the selectivity of how they chose to describe what Ilinden represents - clearly exercising caution to not jeopardise/disturb that precious Tito narrative

http://www.ekathimerini.com/228839/a...onia-for-fyrom

Opposition leaders reject as irredentist the proposed name 'Ilinden Macedonia' for the Republic of Macedonia

...New Democracy leader Kyriakos Mitsotakis reportedly told Tsipras that the Republic of Ilinden Macedonia is “unacceptable” as it smacked of irredentism.

Ilinden refers to an anti-Nazi uprising in the Balkans in 1944 which, however, sought to unify the geographic area of Macedonia, including parts of Greece. Its historical connotations are seen as a stumbling block for many Greeks.

According to ND, “any reference to Ilinden in the neighboring country’s name does not put an end to the irredentism of Skopje, but instead it confirms and strengthens it.

“That’s why it is unacceptable to even discuss this,” it said...

[Tomche Makedonche]

https://www.rferl.org/a/macedonia-zaev-greece-name-dispute-llinden/29237627.html

Zaev Cites Agreement With Greeks On 'Ilinden Macedonia' Name

Macedonia's prime minister says his administration has reached an agreement with Greek leaders on a new name for his country, possibly ending a decades-long dispute between the Balkan neighbors.

Prime Minister Zoran Zaev on May 19 said that "Republic of Ilinden Macedonia" has been agreed to as the compromise name by both sides and will be put to referendum for approval by Macedonian citizens.

The name has also been given as "Republic of Ilindenska Macedonia."

"Ilinden" and "Ilindenska," meaning "the day of St. Elijah," refer to a 1903 uprising against Turkish occupiers and a 1944 uprising against the Nazis that took place on August 2, St. Elijah day.

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras on May 19 did not specifically address Zaev’s claim of an agreement on the name, but said the countries were "closer than ever before" to a solution.

"We must not lose this historic opportunity. Let's not make clumsy steps in the final meters to the finish line," Tsipras said in a speech.

Bulgaria's foreign minister, Ekaterina Zaharieva, confirmed to RFE/RL on May 18 that the two sides had discussed the name Republic of Ilinden Macedonia during the EU-Western Balkan summit in Sofia.

"It sounds to me like they recognized that we have a common history and a common past," she said.

The name dispute between Macedonia and Greece dates back to 1991, when Skopje declared independence following the collapse of communist Yugoslavia.

Athens objects to Macedonia's name because it has its own northern province called Macedonia, and fears it may imply territorial ambitions.

The dispute has hampered Macedonia's ambitions to join both the European Union and NATO.

Negotiations to resolve the dispute have made progress since Macedonia recently agreed to change the name of Skopje's Alexander the Great airport to Skopje International Airport, in a goodwill gesture to Greece.

The Greek government has said the Macedonian Constitution must be revised to make clear the country does not consider the province part of its territory.

"As regards the debate surrounding [Macedonia's] name, the [Greek] government will not enter more specific talks if the above requirements are not fulfilled first," Tsipras's office said in a statement on May 19.

Even with the apparent agreement between Macedonian and Greek leaders, Zaev still faces opposition from nationalists at home who do not accept the compromise with Athens.

Other compromises previously put forward included adding geographic modifiers to the name, such as "Northern Macedonia" and "Upper Macedonia."

Greek’s main opposition New Democracy party also expressed opposition to the use of the suggested name.

The anti-Nazi uprising sought to unify the geographic area of Macedonia including parts of Greece. Critics say its inclusion indicates Skopje's desire for a "Greater Macedonia" that includes the Greek city of Thessaloniki and extends to the Aegean Sea.