Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Stojacanec]

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;

"Linear distance" is the only proximity you have to Ancient Macedonia.[/QUOTE]

Pretty strong words from a new Greek.

[Amphipolis]

I think the best she could be is a proud Greek of Pontian origins. What a pity she does not know the real history of the region.

Yes, she sould read this forum.

But Pontians have more to do with it? Spare me you obsessed Greek moron.

More or less is hard to say between groups that have no connection to Ancient Macedonia of Alexander's time.

[Karposh]

"Linear distance" is the only proximity you have to Ancient Macedonia.

I think you’ll find that our connection to Ancient Macedonia is a little deeper than just a linear proximity to it. Pella, the capital of the Ancient Macedonians remained Macedonian right up until 1924. Postol, built on the site of the original Pella, was a purely Macedonian town. And, being the birth place of Krste Misirkov, Pella was no doubt the inspiration for his book “About Macedonian Matters”. That shows that our people’s roots are well established, not only in and around Ancient Macedonia, but in the very heart of Ancient Macedonia. How far back to your Turkish roots go back in Macedonia?

Macedonians continue to live in Pella to this very day and the ratio is in the order of 50:50 Macedonians to refugees from eastern Thrace. Old Partisan statistics from 1947 put the figures at 750 Macedonians, 750 refugees and 50 Vlachs.

The Pella Macedonians are still proud of their roots and there are many YouTube videos documenting Pella festivals where they sing “Edno ime imame”, “Biser Balkanski”, “Ogan da go Gori”, etc.

[Vangelovski]

https://medium.com/@Miko_Janos/gornamakedonija-only-4-to-5-years-away-from-eu-membership-b21a7f1259d2

Gornamakedonija only 4 to 5 years away from EU membership

REUTERS February 3, 2024 (Skopje, Gornamakedonija) — The small, landlocked Republic of Gornamakedonija is only “4 to 5 years” away from EU membership, stated EU president Federica Mogherini today during a meeting with Gornamakedonijan Prime Minister Zoran Zaev, now in his eighth year as prime minister. “We need more reforms and we need the Government of Gornamakedonija to do more to encourage the citizens, especially those using social media, to stop with their irredentist claims against Greece and Bulgaria. As good Europeans who believe in good neighborly relations, it does not help your prospects for EU membership when some members of the public insist on calling themselves ‘Macedonians’ and referring to this beautiful country of Gornamakedonija by its former name,” she concluded.

Despite having come to an agreement with Greece to change the name, identity, language and many other aspects of what was the “Republic of Macedonia” in 2018, the Greeks continue to put up roadblocks to Gornamakedonija’s membership in the EU due to irredentism among many Gornamakedonijans. Polls show that an overwhelming majority of ethnic Gornamakedonijans still refer to themselves quaintly as “Macedonian” and their identity, language, Church and culture as, oddly, “Macedonian.” This puts the government of Gornamakedonija at odds with the majority of its citizens and when anyone in the private sector, media (especially social media), Church, educational institutions, sports sector and other areas refer to themselves, their language, their culture, and their Church, among other things, as “Macedonian” it creates unnecessary friction with the good and neighborly Greeks and Bulgarians.

The change of the country’s name, identity, Church, language, and culture, among other things, did not come easy. It took the concerted efforts of the EU, US, NATO, and many of the intelligentsia in Gornamakedonija to wear down the Gornamakedonijans over two decades to get them to accept their new name and identity. While some Gornamakedonijans still believe that the referendum which passed and allowed for the name and identity change was rigged, the Government of Gornamakedonija insists that it was “free and fair,” as stated by the OSCE’s electoral observer mission, ODHIR (pronounced, ‘oh dear’). Some Gornamakedonijans insist that 2.3 million votes cast in a country with only 2.1 million citizens makes the whole affair suspect. Parliament too, adopted the constitutionally required changes demanded by the Greeks when about 20 members of the opposition party, VMRO-DPMNE tragically lost their lives in a bus accident just before the vote.

Gornamakedonija has been a NATO member since 2019 (after Greece finally ratified the country’s accession after having requested a few more concessions regarding trade names and the former Internet domain “.mk” now, “.gmka”) and Gornamakedonija Foreign Minister Pavle Bogoevski recently reflected on the country’s membership stating that “Now that we are in NATO, everything is wonderful, everyone is happy, and everything is great. Love, peace, unicorns, kittens, puppy dogs, Skittles.”

Gornamakedonija President Radmila Sekerinska, in the final year of her first five-year term, stated that “It was soooooo worth it changing our name and identity to get into NATO and soon, we hope, into the EU. Names and identity, like gender, are fluid and so not really very important and can change depending on what side of the bed you wake up on. What’s more important is having more consumer choices and more opportunities to buy stuff because this is what makes us happy. NATO membership, while a security guarantee against the Russians and Chinese, also brings other benefits like purchasing power. Although debt also comes with that, it is OK because we can pass that off and down to future generations. It is absolutely soooooo totally adorable that some citizens in our beautiful Republic of Gornamakedonija refer to themselves by their old name but hey, this is the 21st century and they need to get with the program,” she concluded. Sekerinska was first elected in 2019 with 98% of the support of Gornamakedonija’s ethnic Albanians when she promised them a federalized country. While there is a dispute as to how many ethnic Albanians make up Gornamakedonija, with some saying as few as 18 percent of the population and others, including the Albanians themselves, saying as many as 75 percent of the population, no one really knows as the last census was conducted more than 22 years ago in 2002.

Consumer debt has increased by 250% since joining NATO and government debt is now 120% of GDP, due, in part, to the fact that tourism has shrunk and foreign direct investment has collapsed following the government’s focus away from promoting Gornamakedonija abroad and its personal and corporate tax increases. Unemployment has also crept up “but NATO membership will eventually, one day, some day, perhaps, maybe, who the hell knows, bring rewards” according to NGO activist Saso Ordanovski.

[Risto the Great]

This is false. I strongly doubt the Skittles.

[Phoenix]

https://medium.com/@Miko_Janos/gorna...p-b21a7f1259d2

Damn...and nobody had killed Zaev?

[Risto the Great]

Yes, she sould read this forum.

She can't handle the Macedonian truth.

More or less is hard to say between groups that have no connection to Ancient Macedonia of Alexander's time.

The former Turks have no connection. There you go. And, as mentioned earlier, even if there was a slav invasion and all the men were killed ... surely the MACEDONIAN women were kept for cheap thrills ;-)
Prove me wrong.

[Vangelovski]

Remember that time when Macedonians were asked if they should stop ethnically cleansing themselves and creating majority Albanian municipalities? The US recognised them as "Macedonia" three days before the referendum and the MK Government lifted the alcohol curfew that was in place at the time the night before the referendum. Then Macedonians went out and got drunk and Petko barfed all over the place and Trajan was like "gross, Petko barfed" and everyone forgot to vote the next day, because you know, America said "Macedonia" and if they said it, well, that's that. That was so worth it. Good times.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Names and identity, like gender, are fluid and so not really very important and can change depending on what side of the bed you wake up on...

...and Gornamakedonija Foreign Minister Pavle Bogoevski recently reflected on the country’s membership stating that “Now that we are in NATO, everything is wonderful, everyone is happy, and everything is great. Love, peace, unicorns, kittens, puppy dogs, Skittles.”

Mmmmmm you can literally taste the rainbow

[Vangelovski]

This is false. I strongly doubt the Skittles.

Well, not actual skittles - skitles, the Turkish ones.

[Tomche Makedonche]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/turkey-greece-impose-macedonia-53015181

Turkey: Greece shouldn't impose name on Macedonia

Turkey's prime minister says it's wrong for Greece to dictate what Macedonia's official name should be, but adds that he hopes the two neighboring countries can resolve their dispute "amicably."

Speaking at a joint conference with visiting Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev on Monday, Binali Yildirim said: "it is wrong for another country to determine the name of a country."

Macedonia and Greece have been at odds for a quarter-century over the name Macedonia, but have pledged to resolve the dispute by the summer. Greece says the country's name implies claims on its own province of Macedonia and wants it changed.

The squabble has prevented Macedonia from joining NATO.

Zaev said the best solution was one that would pave the way for Macedonia's NATO and European Union membership

[Vangelovski]

Turkey's prime minister says it's wrong for Greece to dictate what Macedonia's official name should be

Turkey is still trying to teach these dogs the norms of humanity.

Zaev said the best solution was one that would pave the way for Macedonia's NATO and European Union membership

In other words, the solution is anything and as soon as possible.

[Phoenix]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...donia-53015181

Turkey: Greece shouldn't impose name on Macedonia

Turkey's prime minister says it's wrong for Greece to dictate what Macedonia's official name should be, but adds that he hopes the two neighboring countries can resolve their dispute "amicably."

Speaking at a joint conference with visiting Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev on Monday, Binali Yildirim said: "it is wrong for another country to determine the name of a country."

Macedonia and Greece have been at odds for a quarter-century over the name Macedonia, but have pledged to resolve the dispute by the summer. Greece says the country's name implies claims on its own province of Macedonia and wants it changed.

The squabble has prevented Macedonia from joining NATO.

Zaev said the best solution was one that would pave the way for Macedonia's NATO and European Union membership

I think this is the general view of most leaders around the world, that greece should not be imposing a name on Macedonia...thankfully the Turks have been consistently vocal in this regard.

Sadly, our leaders continue to entertain the madness and racism perpetrated by the greek side just by continuing to seek a compromise solution to a problem that is purely the making of one side alone.

[Spirit]

Yes, she sould read this forum.



More or less is hard to say between groups that have no connection to Ancient Macedonia of Alexander's time.

Your first comment is dripping with sarcasm and is very undermining.
And as for the stupidity of the female who travelled from Melbourne to Athens for the protest, “A Macedonian with Pontian Origins”, I mean how absurd and inane is her comment. And even supposedly if we did not have connections to the Ancient Macedonia of Alexander’s time we certainly have a lot more connection to Macedonia than a “Macedonian with Pontian Origins” whose ancestors were likely transplanted to Macedonia from the Pontus during the population exchanges early last century.

[tchaiku]