Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Phoenix]

I think the proposal is for it to be Gornamakedonija everywhere, you know “erga omnes”

How that will be pronounced in English? (at the UN and Olympics etc..) I imagine something completely devoid of its actual pronunciation, you know, something like:

Gore - Nem – Ache – Don – Eye - Chah

And we would be eventually referred to as “Gornan’s” and our language as “Gornan” in short form. Think how you would pronounce the name Norman in English and just replace the “N” with a “G” and the “M” with an “N”

i.e. Olympic Commentator: “…and following Ghana is “Gore-nem-ache-don-eye-chah”. The flag bearer for the Gornan’s is none other than the captain of the Gornan Water-polo team, Sokle Forgotthehousekey, who are currently the countries best medal hopefuls. Can the Gornan’s cause an upset and take home Olympic gold?, I guess time will tell, but I dare say such an achievement would be a proud day for Gornan’s all over the world”

I don't know whether to laugh or cry...

[Carlin]

Дескоски за Канал 5: Грците во 1997 прифатија Република Македонија (Скопје)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ4RsfsqC5Y

[Tomche Makedonche]

I've always treaded carefully around these stories and always question their veracity...are they trial balloons or ambit claims to test resolve...the greeks always appear to be 'leaking' information and our side always appears to be so eager to bend over and take it with a smile...it just doesn't make sense that we've fallen this low, this quickly.

I usually take these "exclusives" with a grain of salt. Until RoM's government makes a statement it really could be anything. I'm sure we will see other "exclusives" over the upcoming days saying that the new agreed proposal is now "Novamakedonija", and all the other possible options, until an official government statement is finally released. Perhaps they are just testing the waters based on reactions from the public... (lol reactions from the public lol, maybe reactions from the Greek public).

[Carlin]

Exactly, until there is something concrete it's all speculation. The "exclusives" coming from various Greek news & media outlets seem to change by the hour (one day it is Novamakedonija that is the Final answer, then Gornamakedonija, etc.) - I believe this is all done on purpose for reasons that are obvious.

[Tomche Makedonche]

How much are they paying Zaev to accept total capitulation?

Surely, to go down in history as Macedonia's biggest traitor isn't worth it.

What I don’t get is why all the people that are on board with Zajko’s agenda not demanding more for the sale of their country?

I mean if you are going to sell a country, why restrict the sale to the lowest bidder, particularly one who isn’t really even interested?

Surely the smart thing to do would be to at least go to market right?, have an auction, open up for tenders including ones from the private sector, see what kind of deal you can strike, I’d imagine there would be a lot of individuals and corporations out there that would be interested in obtaining their own sovereignty, particularly in Southern Europe, a place where they can make their own rules and the people will call themselves after whatever name you want them to be called and speak whatever language you want them to speak. Perhaps an oil rich Arab prince would be interested? (I mean its not like they don’t have Mosques littered all over the place – or like they would have any issues in being turned into a territory like Bahrain where all the good Muslim Saudi’s could go for debauchery); or perhaps Elon Musk could be interested?, they could become Muskians, and be the first nation to travel to Mars?,

I mean this guy is practically giving the country away for nothing other than the hope it might join an organisation in 10 years time so the population has a chance to immigrate for work, surely you can get something better than that. I mean if FYROMians open their doors to the global market I’m sure they could at least obtain a guaranteed UBI as part of any deal, then obtaining EU membership would become irrelevant for most.

This is seriously just bad business. If you are going to do something, then at least do it properly. Open up your doors to the global market, I guarantee you can get a lot more then what you are trying to get now (which is basically the worst deal you could probably get)

The people that support this agenda really are retarded (which ever way you want to look at it)

[Carlin]

FYI - The following is from 2008.

The case for Upper Macedonia

URL:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/55906/article/ekathimerini/comment/the-case-for-upper-macedonia

From the article:
- "A name such as Slavo-Macedonia would be wrong because of the Albanian minority in the country, whereas a geographically descriptive name such as Upper Macedonia, is more acceptable."
- "North Macedonia is not necessarily wrong, but it has the problem of being associated with divided nations such as Korea and Vietnam."
- "Then there's New Macedonia .... But «New» connotes a tie with rather than a contradistinction with ancient Macedonia."

[Pelagonija]

I reckon Zajche da mu ebam majcheto will eventually get the name changed, but by god if they don't get into EU/NATO they will hang him by the balls in sred skopje.

[Vangelovski]

I've been wanting to make a sensible comment on this thread for a while now, but there are no words to adequately capture the complete mental spastication of this situation.

I know this is all bewildering to many, but we really shouldn't be surprised. This has been coming for a long time. I think one of the reasons that its so hard to understand is because we assume that Macedonians in Macedonia are normal people. They're not. Accept this and it will all become much clearer.

[Solun]

I reckon Zajche da mu ebam majcheto will eventually get the name changed, but by god if they don't get into EU/NATO they will hang him by the balls in sred skopje.

George Soros and Jess Baily will be the first to shake Zaev's hand and thank him for following through on his promise.

Bondsteel is not far from Skopje and you know Jess Baily will confirm to Zaev that he and his government are untouchable

[Albo]

Personally (for what it's worth) I think the Macedonian negotiating team shouldn't nudge when it comes to issues of Identity, language and constitutional name..

Grace is obviously in a much more stronger negotiating position than Macedonia is but Macedonia need to stick to its guns and not give in or brake to greek pressure regarding ultra sensitive issues such as the Macedonian language.. identity and Constitutional name on the world stage ....

[Dejan]

How about bilingual Albo?

[mklion]

How about bilingual Albo?

It's ok to be against the Greeks but not the Albanians because they can do no wrong.

[Niko777]

I find it appalling, among other things, that no one on the Macedonian side seems to be bothered with the amount of disregard the Greek side has with the Macedonian language. It's as if Greece is now saying: "Go ahead, use "Makedonija" in a compound form, but don't use it in any other language but your own, it's ok if you're calling yourself "Makedonija", just don't let the world know your calling yourself Macedonia. Or as long as the world doesn't know that Makedonija means Macedonia then we have an agreement."

[Amphipolis]

I find it appalling, among other things, that no one on the Macedonian side seems to be bothered with the amount of disregard the Greek side has with the Macedonian language. It's as if Greece is now saying: "Go ahead, use "Makedonija" in a compound form, but don't use it in any other language but your own, it's ok if you're calling yourself "Makedonija", just don't let the world know your calling yourself Macedonia. Or as long as the world doesn't know that Makedonija means Macedonia then we have an agreement."

This isn't the Greek position. This sort of ideas has been thrown all these years, e.g. by Nimitz, and we DO find it stupid too.

[Tomche Makedonche]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/identity-issues-not-part-of-macedonia-name-talks-nimetz-02-01-2018

Nimetz Excludes 'Identity' Issues From Macedonia Talks

The process of overcoming the Macedonia ‘name’ dispute is moving ahead, but 'identity' issues are not part of it, the UN mediator in the dispute said in Skopje on Thursday.

During his visit to the Macedonia, UN mediator Matthew Nimetz said that issues about [Macedonian] "identity" are not part of his mandate – and that he had not heard the Greek side denying the identity of the people who live in Macedonia.

“There are differences between the two countries but I don’t hear from Athens a denial of [Macedonian] identity,” Nimetz told a joint press conference with the Macedonian Foreign Minister, Nikola Dimitrov.

Dimitrov also shared the UN mediator's optimism that the “name” talks were on the right track, adding that they had discussed some of the compromise name proposals that Nimetz extended to both sides in January in New York in detail.

“We told him that there are ideas that are not that bad, and that there are those which are not that good,” Dimitrov said, without going onto details himself.

Regarding fears in Macedonia that the talks could end up with a settlement that denies Macedonian national identity, Dimitrov said that renaming the Macedonian identity and the Macedonian language were non-negotiable points.

“If we reach a point where we need to touch the identity [of Macedonia] in order to reach a solution, there will unfortunately not be a solution. However, it will be very sad if two European countries in 2018 are not big enough to acknowledge this,” Dimitrov said.

Before meeting Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev, President Gjorge Ivanov and opposition chief Hristijan Mickoski, Nimetz said that the noticeable “momentum” in the "name" talks should be used to reach a solution.

“The next couple of months will decide whether we’re making real progress or not,” he told the media.

The dispute centres on Greece's insistence that use of the word Macedonia implies a territorial claim to the northern Greek province of the same name.

Athens insists that a new name must be found that makes a clear distinction between the Greek province and the country.

As a result of the unresolved dispute, in 2008, Greece blocked Macedonia’s NATO membership It has also blocked the start of Macedonia’s EU accession talks, despite several positive annual reports from the European Commission on the country’s progress.

Before visiting Macedonia, Nimetz spent Monday and Tuesday in Athens where he met Greek officials and where he repeated the same optimism about a breakthrough soon