Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Carlin]

Mitsotakis blasts Tsipras after meeting on name talks

http://www.ekathimerini.com/225305/article/ekathimerini/news/mitsotakis-blasts-tsipras-after-meeting-on-name-talks

- "Mr Tsipras did not inform Parliament or the Greek people," said Mitsotakis after the meeting, which lasted about 45 minutes. "Instead of pursuing a strong national front, he is focused on petty political games. This means that a window of opportunity is closing."

- "Mr Tsipras chose to walk this road alone so he should not look for accomplices and alibis," said the conservative leader. The prime minister's office responded to Mitsotakis's comments by accusing him of "irresponsibility and opportunism." "The country, however, needs a leadership that is determined to walk the difficult path in order to protect national interest and not the easy route, which leads to dead-ends," the statement added.





Anthee Carassava

#USembassy pressing @atsipras to have #kammenos abstain from vote on #Macedonia name change in Parliament, source tells me

https://twitter.com/hashtag/kammenos?lang=en

[Carlin]

Предлогот за име е: НОВАМАКЕДОНИЈА (во еден збор) а јазикот новомакедонски

URL:

http://vecer.mk/makedonija/predlogot-za-ime-e-novamakedonija-vo-eden-zbor-a-jazikot-novomakedonski

[Risto the Great]

I prefer Istolajna

(I reckon this new name NOVAMAKEDONIJA , will go through with acceptance from both sides, sadly)

[Tomche Makedonche]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whats-in-a-name-for-macedonia-membership-in-the-west-1516962601

What’s in a Name? For Macedonia, Membership in the West

SKOPJE, Macedonia—This tiny Balkan nation is on track to join the West’s most powerful clubs. First, everyone needs to agree on its name.

The former Yugoslavian province, then known as the Socialist Republic of Macedonia, adopted the shortened version when it became independent 27 years ago. That triggered a dispute with neighboring Greece, which is home to a region called Macedonia, named after the ancient kingdom of Alexander the Great.

The two countries have quarreled since, and Athens has used its veto power to keep the newcomer out of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and the European Union. But the squabble over the meaning of 2½ millennia of history is nearing a resolution, in part because of the present-day challenge from a resurgent Russia.

After Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and his Macedonian counterpart, Zoran Zaev, met in Davos for three hours this week, the two leaders announced confidence-building measures. Both sides have expressed optimism about compromising on a new name before the next NATO summit, on July 11.

Among the possibilities: “New Macedonia,” “Upper Macedonia,” or “North Macedonia.”

“We either make this region stable with strong institutions, with functional democracies, or we have a region in a permanent state of crisis,” said Nikola Dimitrov, Macedonia’s foreign minister. “Europe and the region will be much better off with the first option.”

More than 70% of Macedonians support EU membership, according to a September poll by the Washington-based International Republican Institute’s Center for Insights.

“If people can live better, I don’t care if they call it Disneyland,” Kiril Pop Hrisotof, a 50-year-old actor who left Macedonia for Ecuador four years ago, said during a recent visit to Skopje, the Macedonian capital, as he weighed whether to move home.

Europe has been shaken by the rise of nationalism, and EU leaders are also concerned about the risk of political instability in the Balkans.

Macedonia isn’t the only country whose hopes of joining the EU are blocked by what leaders of the bloc regard as self-defeating squabbles. Serbia doesn’t recognize Kosovo, and neither can enter the EU until that disagreement gets ironed out. In Bosnia, the country’s mostly Muslim west and Christian east are governed by two separate administrations.

Governments in Greece’s backyard have also been increasingly vocal about what they say is Russian subversion. Montenegro, which is in negotiations to join the EU, says its then-prime minister was nearly assassinated in a Russian-funded conspiracy. Bosnian leaders say Moscow is training separatist paramilitaries in their country. Russia denies trying to kill the Montenegrin prime minister or training rebels in Bosnia.

“We have seen that Russia has attempted to interfere in processes in this region,” the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said in an interview during a visit last week to Macedonia. Regarding the dispute with Greece over the country’s name, he added, “I’m encouraged by the will I have seen both from the government in Athens and from the government in Skopje.”

NATO officials say Macedonia should be able to swiftly join the world’s biggest military alliance if the name issue is resolved. The EU hopes to welcome the country in by 2025.

Macedonia, a mountainous country that saw tens of thousands of migrants passing through from Greece on their way to Northern Europe in 2015, is considered an important ally by the EU in efforts to control migration flows and counter security threats.

But joining the EU would mainly bring benefits to Macedonia, allowing its two million mostly poor people to travel and work across Europe’s richest nations. “Those on the inside tend to forget how cold it is outside,” said Mr. Dimitrov.

After Macedonia adopted its name at independence in 1991, more than one million Greeks took to the streets the following year in protest.

Athens staged an economic blockade that lasted two years, tipped Macedonia into a recession, and ended only when the country’s then-president appeared on television to announce that Macedonia had no connection to Alexander the Great.

After Greece blocked Macedonia from NATO membership in 2008, relations deteriorated.

In 2011, Macedonia erected an eight-story-tall statue of Alexander the Great. After it also named highways and Skopje’s airport after him, Athens cut off flights to the country.

Now, the situation has changed. A 2015 scandal brought a new government to power in Macedonia. And the Greek prime minister is concerned about hard-right, nationalist movements in Greece’s backyard.

This week, Mr. Zaev announced he would change the name of Skopje’s airport and main avenue, while Mr. Tsipras said Greece’s Parliament will ratify the next stage of an EU agreement with Macedonia to boost trade ties.

To be sure, both leaders will have to contend with opposition back home. Mr. Zaev holds a narrow majority in the parliament, and changing the country’s name requires backing by two-thirds of the parliament.

Not everyone in Macedonia supports a change. Dragan Tanaskoski, a 65-year-old retiree, said he doesn’t care if the country ever joins NATO or the EU. “It’s never going to happen,” he said.

And tens of thousands of people demonstrated in northern Greece recently against any agreement on the name. The government’s junior coalition partner also opposes a deal.

But with Greece’s economy steadier and the goal of exiting its decadelong bailout regime within reach, the time could be ripe.

“Greece would like to come back to be a leader,” said Vladimir Gligorov, an expert on the Balkans at the Vienna Institute for International Economic Studies. “They would like to have more of a say and to show that they can actually play a role.”

[mklion]

I'm gonna say this again and maybe there may be someone out there in cyberspace that gets it. The EU does NOT want Macedonia as a member. Greece is just doing the dirty work for them. Even if we change our name we will still not get in.

[Stojacanec]

What makes me see red is those greeks from the protests put their 10 cents worth of thought in. Portraying us as fakes and illegitimate.

Over the past 100 years Aegean Macedonia's makeup is times newer than R.Macedonia and we have to put up with their garbage!

[Phoenix]

Предлогот за име е: НОВАМАКЕДОНИЈА (во еден збор) а јазикот новомакедонски

URL:
http://vecer.mk/makedonija/predlogot...novomakedonski

Our side would have to be totally insane to accept something like that...in fact it would be the worst possible scenario.

There's a very disturbing expediency by which Zaev operates, thus anything is possible with that treacherous dog.

[Niko777]

Breaking News:"The first thing to discuss is a name in the language or languages of the neighboring country which cannot be translated in any other language," Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Kotzias told ERT television.

More: "Athens wants 'untranslatable' name for Macedonia"

[Risto the Great]

No doubt the name will be sold as a new beginning for Macedonia and the sheeple in Macedonia will accept it because they will be promised milk from the EU's ample teat forever and they will never have to work again ..... but is there any voice of dissent building in Macedonia? Do they realise what it will mean when they speak Novamakedonski and find their new alphabetical order on the world stage? I fear this will go through purely because the people are too stupid to understand what this will mean for Macedonians. Particularly in English. My progeny will never be Novamakedonians and they will have more than one reason to point to places in Egej because these places will be the only Macedonia on the map.

Pathetic!

[Stojacanec]

What annoys me is today's greeks get their day in the sun telling the world how much they are oppressed and how much the name Macedonia means to them.

Macedonians, get that dysfunctional, corrupt establishment you call a government together and officially take a stance to walk away from negotiating who we are!

Bilaterally I don't care if the new greeks call us The Kardatians we are not changing the name of our country internally and to the rest of the world.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Република Горнамакедонија?

Make of it what you will, but according to some Greek reports, the agreed proposal which will be in Cyrillic form is Република Горнамакедонија

NOTE: As the article is posted from a Greek website and contains the usual derogatory racist slurs, I have taken the liberty of editing these slurs which are noted in Italic.

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2018/01/31/greece-suggests-republika-gornamakedonija-for-fyrom-reports/

Greece Suggests ‘Republika GornaMakedonija’ for Macedonia: Reports

Republika GornaMakedonija (Republic of Upper Macedonia) is the new name Greece proposed for the Republic of Macedonia.

Local media claim exclusive information from the Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs suggests out of four names proposed to UN mediator Matthew Nimetz, Republika GornaMakedonija in Slavic is the one which seems acceptable to both sides.

For Athens, GornaMakedonija is one word and with its Slavic pronunciation it does not sound like Macedonia. At the same time, the word ‘Macedonia‘ by itself is absent from the name.

According to reports, the same source said Skopje had initially asked for the name to be Republika Nova Makedonija (Republic of New Macedonia), while the Greek side had suggested that the neighboring country be called Republika Vardarska Makedonija (Republic of Macedonia of Vardar).

The third solution chosen from Nimetz’s package — the Republic of Gorna-Makedonia (Upper Macedonia) — was agreed upon by both countries.

Both sides have reportedly agreed to the name and an official agreement will be signed in the near future. In order for Macedonia to sign, the country’s constitution has to change so there are no irredentist articles which claim territory in northern Greece.

The agreement will explicitly state that Macedonia will change its constitution and the redundant articles within a certain period of time.

It will also describe in detail the economic and developmental relations between the two countries. The same sources claim the agreement will be submitted to the UN by March 20.

[Odi Zvezdo]

Make of it what you will, but according to some Greek reports, the agreed proposal which will be in Cyrillic form is Република Горнамакедонија

NOTE: As the article is posted from a Greek website and contains the usual derogatory racist slurs, I have taken the liberty of editing these slurs which are noted in Italic.

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2018/01/31/greece-suggests-republika-gornamakedonija-for-fyrom-reports/

Greece Suggests ‘Republika GornaMakedonija’ for Macedonia: Reports

Republika GornaMakedonija (Republic of Upper Macedonia) is the new name Greece proposed for the Republic of Macedonia.

Local media claim exclusive information from the Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs suggests out of four names proposed to UN mediator Matthew Nimetz, Republika GornaMakedonija in Slavic is the one which seems acceptable to both sides.

For Athens, GornaMakedonija is one word and with its Slavic pronunciation it does not sound like Macedonia. At the same time, the word ‘Macedonia‘ by itself is absent from the name.

According to reports, the same source said Skopje had initially asked for the name to be Republika Nova Makedonija (Republic of New Macedonia), while the Greek side had suggested that the neighboring country be called Republika Vardarska Makedonija (Republic of Macedonia of Vardar).

The third solution chosen from Nimetz’s package — the Republic of Gorna-Makedonia (Upper Macedonia) — was agreed upon by both countries.

Both sides have reportedly agreed to the name and an official agreement will be signed in the near future. In order for Macedonia to sign, the country’s constitution has to change so there are no irredentist articles which claim territory in northern Greece.

The agreement will explicitly state that Macedonia will change its constitution and the redundant articles within a certain period of time.

It will also describe in detail the economic and developmental relations between the two countries. The same sources claim the agreement will be submitted to the UN by March 20.

So silly question...based on those sources..Under the United Nations it'll be referred to as the Republic of Upper Macedonia and Constitution will be Republika Gorna Makedonija whilst Greece will refer to it as the Republika GornaMakedonija?

Do I see a 3rd October 1995 Episode in Skopje again or are the Gorni Makedonci beyond saving now??

[Spirit]

Make of it what you will, but according to some Greek reports, the agreed proposal which will be in Cyrillic form is Република Горнамакедонија

NOTE: As the article is posted from a Greek website and contains the usual derogatory racist slurs, I have taken the liberty of editing these slurs which are noted in Italic.

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2018/01/31/greece-suggests-republika-gornamakedonija-for-fyrom-reports/

Greece Suggests ‘Republika GornaMakedonija’ for Macedonia: Reports

Republika GornaMakedonija (Republic of Upper Macedonia) is the new name Greece proposed for the Republic of Macedonia.

Local media claim exclusive information from the Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs suggests out of four names proposed to UN mediator Matthew Nimetz, Republika GornaMakedonija in Slavic is the one which seems acceptable to both sides.

For Athens, GornaMakedonija is one word and with its Slavic pronunciation it does not sound like Macedonia. At the same time, the word ‘Macedonia‘ by itself is absent from the name.

According to reports, the same source said Skopje had initially asked for the name to be Republika Nova Makedonija (Republic of New Macedonia), while the Greek side had suggested that the neighboring country be called Republika Vardarska Makedonija (Republic of Macedonia of Vardar).

The third solution chosen from Nimetz’s package — the Republic of Gorna-Makedonia (Upper Macedonia) — was agreed upon by both countries.

Both sides have reportedly agreed to the name and an official agreement will be signed in the near future. In order for Macedonia to sign, the country’s constitution has to change so there are no irredentist articles which claim territory in northern Greece.

The agreement will explicitly state that Macedonia will change its constitution and the redundant articles within a certain period of time.

It will also describe in detail the economic and developmental relations between the two countries. The same sources claim the agreement will be submitted to the UN by March 20.

If these idiots agree to this they are committing cultural, ethnic and historical suicide and genocide.

[Phoenix]

I've always treaded carefully around these stories and always question their veracity...are they trial balloons or ambit claims to test resolve...the greeks always appear to be 'leaking' information and our side always appears to be so eager to bend over and take it with a smile...it just doesn't make sense that we've fallen this low, this quickly.

How much are they paying Zaev to accept total capitulation?

Surely, to go down in history as Macedonia's biggest traitor isn't worth it.

[Tomche Makedonche]

So silly question...based on those sources..Under the United Nations it'll be referred to as the Republic of Upper Macedonia and Constitution will be Republika Gorna Makedonija whilst Greece will refer to it as the Republika GornaMakedonija?

I think the proposal is for it to be Gornamakedonija everywhere, you know “erga omnes”

How that will be pronounced in English? (at the UN and Olympics etc..) I imagine something completely devoid of its actual pronunciation, you know, something like:

Gore - Nem – Ache – Don – Eye - Chah

And we would be eventually referred to as “Gornan’s” and our language as “Gornan” in short form. Think how you would pronounce the name Norman in English and just replace the “N” with a “G” and the “M” with an “N”

i.e. Olympic Commentator: “…and following Ghana is “Gore-nem-ache-don-eye-chah”. The flag bearer for the Gornan’s is none other than the captain of the Gornan Water-polo team, Sokle Forgotthehousekey, who are currently the countries best medal hopefuls. Can the Gornan’s cause an upset and take home Olympic gold?, I guess time will tell, but I dare say such an achievement would be a proud day for Gornan’s all over the world”