Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[George S.]

Greece is not mincing words here it knows fully it does not want Macedonia to be known as Macedonia its going to concot something far worse than fyrom as a name.In other words it wants a MONOPOLY on the name just as it did with the flag change.Greece has already drawn the red line & it won't compromise.More or less its telling Macedonia there is no choice YOU MUST change your name.

[Vangelovski]

Ahmeti is keen to get the name issue sorted:

http://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/partii/...romis-za-imeto

[George S.]

volokin thanks for bringing up to our notice that ivanov wont change the name,Whatever happened to constitutional change when they adopted the new flag & adopted the fyrom name. Im sure the people weren't consulted.I don't think nikola gruevski is going to consult the people in the event of entering the eu or nato.Nikola will accept a name change he probably thinks its the way to go theres no choice in the matter.

[Vangelovski]

NATO: Change name and obtain useless membership in a useless organisation

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...-name-solution

[George S.]

it appears that macedonia must change her name to get in to those organizations no ifs or buts.Why bother joining with conditions like that.why do we have to be bullied or cajoled into submission.who gave greece that right.?Whilst it that may from ivanov we know gruevski wants capitulation and its sooner for a name change than later.Once again the people will not be consulted over the name change.We know gruevski's modus operandi he learned from his friend kiro gligorov.

[Soldier of Macedon]

NATO: Change name and obtain useless membership in a useless organisation

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...-name-solution

Quote from the article:

“NATO’s door is open. As we agreed at the Bucharest NATO Summit in 2008, you will receive an invitation to NATO once a mutually acceptable solution to the name issue is found,” the Secretary General said.

Why are our politicians still wasting time on this dead end!?

Here is something interesting (not sure if it has already been posted):

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/fresh-macedonia-name-talks-in-new-york

Ukraine Link Suspected to Macedonia ‘Name’ Talks

NEWS 06 May 14

One month on from the last round of Greece-Macedonia 'name' talks, the UN mediator, Matthew Nimetz, has summoned both sides to New York.

The format of Tuesday's talks in New York on Macedonia's name, which Greece disputes, is the same as in late March. UN mediator Nimetz will first meet Macedonia’s negotiator, Zoran Jolevski, and Greece’s Adamantios Vassilakis separately, and then at a joint discussion. As in March, the talks are expected to bring nothing new to the table beyond keeping the pace going. Both countries are engaged in election activities, which limits their leaders’ room for negotiation.

Macedonia held general and presidential elections in April 27 and Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski, whose party won both polls, is now in a process of forming a new government. Greece, meanwhile, is holding local elections this month. The unusual timing of both the previous talks and the latest talks - which goes against the usual practice of suspending talks during elections - has prompted observers to suspect a link with the crisis in Ukraine.

Risto Nikovski, a Macedonian diplomat, said there was renewed interest in Brussels and Washington in solving open issues in the Balkans in light of the worsening conflict in Ukraine and growing tension with Russia. Nikovski said he expected renewed pressure to solve the long-standing issue ahead of the NATO summit in September, so that Macedonia can be invited to join the alliance, which would strengthen NATO’s eastern flank. “The chances [of accession in September] are not big but they exist. In that context, it is important for Macedonia to play wisely and not accept bad proposals for a solution," he said. He believes that Macedonia should join NATO under its provisional UN name, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, FYROM.

The term was coined under Greek pressure in the 1990s to enable the country to join the UN. However, Greece has refused to let the country join NATO under the same formula. It is still unclear whether the NATO summit will result in progress on enlargement with any of the four current aspirant countries: Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Georgia. Macedonia obtained EU candidate status back in December 2005 and European Commission reports have recommended a start to membership talks each year since 2009. But it has never been offered a date for EU accession talks, or an invitation to join NATO, owing to Greek objections. Greece insists that Macedonia’s name implies territorial claims to its own northern province, also called Macedonia.

Another traitor. Is there not one Macedonian politician of influence with a shred of integrity?

[Volokin]

Utrinski vestnik, Macedonia: Ali Ahmeti appealed for the solution of the name issue

30 May 2014 | 14:31 | FOCUS News Agency
Utrinski vestnik, Macedonia: Ali Ahmeti appealed for the solution of the name issuePicture: Focus Information AgencySkopje. Ali Ahmeti, the leader of the Albanian party in Macedonia, Democratic Union for Integration (DUI), appealed for the solution of the name issue with Greece, reported the Macedonian edition Utrinski vestnik. Ahmeti and the French Ambassador to Macedonia, Laurence Auer met in Tetovo.
Macedonia needs stability, confidence, good ethnic relations and economic development. All this can ensure the prosperity of the society. But this can only be achieved by the Macedonian membership in NATO. So both Greece and Macedonia have to reach a compromise as soon as possible, announced Ahmeti.

http://www.focus-fen.net/news/2014/05/30/337962/utrinski-vestnik-macedonia-ali-ahmeti-appealed-for-the-solution-of-the-name-issue.html

If it wasn't clear enough that Ahmeti was penetrating Gruevski from behind, here it is. Ahmeti knows the perks of NATO membership for the Albanians.

In terms of the Framework Agreement and the minority powers, for constitutional changes, does it need to be a majority in favor for all the minority groups as a whole, for which the Albanians always will win, or a majority by individual minority groups representatives?

At the central level, certain constitutional amendments cannot be approved without a qualified majority of two-thirds of all votes, within which there must be a majority of the votes of representatives from minority communities.

[Volokin]

I know this is a year old, but it's relevant.

Macedonia expects a key Commission report to be tabled today (16 April) to confirm that the country is ready to begin accession negotiations. In the meantime, a UN mediator has tabled a new proposal for a name that would be acceptable to Greece.

The latest suggestion of UN negotiator Matthew Nimetz is that the country to be called “the Upper Republic of Macedonia,” media reported.

Seen from Athens, the official name used by Skopje – the Republic of Macedonia – is an open challenge to the Greek region of Macedonia (see background).

The Greek veto over the name issue prevented Macedonia from joining NATO in 2008 and from starting accession negotiations, even though the country achieved candidate status in 2005.

According to reports quoting the Nimetz proposal, the new name would be used during the negotiations on Macedonia's accession to the EU, which would take at least seven to eight years. After that, a referendum would be held and the citizens of Macedonia would be asked to vote on the two issues: joining the EU and changing the name to the Upper Republic of Macedonia.

Also, Macedonia would enter an amendment into its Constitution that would read as follows: "From the day the Republic of Macedonia joins the EU, the international name of the country will be the Upper Republic of Macedonia and will be used in all languages - except in official languages of the country."

Greece has not reacted to the new proposal. According to some reports, Athens would like the geographical determinant “Upper” to be placed before the word 'Macedonia', the name being “Republic of Upper Macedonia”.

According to reports, Skopje and Athens are expected to state their position on the proposal in the coming days and reach an agreement by mid-May.

But Macedonia still runs the risk that Bulgaria would veto the opening of EU accession talks with Macedonia.

In November, Bulgarian President Rossen Plevneliev said that his country cannot grant an EU certificate to the actions of the government in Skopje which is systematically employing “an ideology of hate towards Bulgaria.”

Macedonia has also tried badmouthing Bulgaria. The most striking example is the film “Third halftime” that depicts wartime Bulgarians as fascists, despite the Bulgarian government's decision to refuse Nazi orders to deport the 48,000 Jews in the country to concentration camps.

A Macedonia-sponsored exhibition of mediaeval manuscripts in Brussels recently infuriated Bulgaria. The manuscripts, which mention Bulgaria and the Bulgarian language only, have been highlighted as Macedonian manuscripts.

Four rounds of talks were held between Sofia and Skopje in an effort to agree on series of measures for improving relations between the two countries. According to information obtained by the Bulgarian national radio, Bulgaria is not satisfied with the results obtained.

Later this year, how can the Macedonian politicians, supposed "Macedonian Nationalist" VMRO-DPMNE, tell the citizens of roMacedonia that we are now going to be called the "Upper Republic of Macedonia".

It is the the ultimate act of humiliation, dishonor and betrayal against the all Macedonians, regardless of location.

How can they sleep at night knowing that they committed such a crime against the Macedonian nation?

[George S.]

why should Macedonia wait to change their name & then prior to joining the eu whether to join the eu by referendum.Sounds crazy to meWe are just trying to appease Greece.

[Phoenix]

I know this is a year old, but it's relevant.



Later this year, how can the Macedonian politicians, supposed "Macedonian Nationalist" VMRO-DPMNE, tell the citizens of roMacedonia that we are now going to be called the "Upper Republic of Macedonia".

It is the the ultimate act of humiliation, dishonor and betrayal against the all Macedonians, regardless of location.

How can they sleep at night knowing that they committed such a crime against the Macedonian nation?

From FYROM to UROM...they continue to take the piss out of us.

[Risto the Great]

From FYROM to UROM...they continue to take the piss out of us.

Well, soon it will be "FROM". It seems to always be FROM something to another lately.

[Redsun]

George - why should Macedonia wait to change their name & then prior to joining the eu whether to join the eu by referendum.Sounds crazy to meWe are just trying to appease Greece.


Your right George maybe not so appease, fear of the reception it will get from Greece. Why must we live in fear of being treated like anything less then how we should be, why?

What retaliation would Macedonia receive if we were to change our name back to Macedonia this year? What can Greece do to oppose us, but more importantly how long can they hold up these Nazi tactics in this modern age.

It isn’t 1995 anymore, the internet has changed the way people collect information, the internet has helped evolve people’s perception on injustice and inequality, people genuinely want other human beings in this world, no matter where they are to succeed and to have the same human rights (universally) that we all work so hard together to achieve.

The international community doesn’t support any form of tyranny that suppresses the rights of the citizens of their bordering countries. No one wants to see people suffering especially due to racist politics.

No one wants to support a Nazi Regime.

If Greece wants to oppose us again there will be an international outcry, if they try to oppose us in this modern day, they will shoot themselves in the foot.

Change it back… let the world see how the Greeks behave, let the world hear the vile deceit and hate that comes from their mouth.

Why wait? Do it.

[Constellation]

Quote from the article:

Why are our politicians still wasting time on this dead end!?

Here is something interesting (not sure if it has already been posted):

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/fresh-macedonia-name-talks-in-new-york

Another traitor. Is there not one Macedonian politician of influence with a shred of integrity?

It all boils down to three things.

The first problem is that some of our politicians do not believe in Macedonia. They believe in Slavicism.

Macedonia's former president Kiro Gligorov in the Toronto Star on March 15, 1992 said: "We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That's who we are! We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia. The ancient Macedonians no longer exist, they had disappeared from history long time ago. Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century (AD)."

In an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, Gyordan Veselinov, Macedonia's Ambassador to Canada said: "We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian" and that "there is some confusion about the identity of the people of this country."

It is with great sadness to report that there are politicians, whether privately or publicly, who believe this. These are the enemies of Macedonia.

The second problem is international pressure. No one believes in the Macedonian cause except the Macedonians, so in the eyes of the world, as soon as we end our "delusion" of being Macedonians, we can enter the international community. Of course, once this happens, if it happens, Macedonia will cease to exist, because after that, Albania and our neighbors will split yet again the Macedonian pie.

A name change suggests a people without an identity. We compromise on this, it is over.

The third problem is money. Politicians are being bribed and being offered false promises.

We should remain an independent sovereign country, regardless of the consequences.

NATO, the EU, and Greece are dead horses.

[Dejan]

Constellation, that is the first go to quote that the Greeks use to try and negate our ethnicity/identity. Are you sure you are not one of them?

Сигурен си дека си Македонец?

[Constellation]

Constellation, that is the first go to quote that the Greeks use to try and negate our ethnicity/identity. Are you sure you are not one of them?

Сигурен си дека си Македонец?

So let me get this straight.

I believe the Slavic Migration Theory is highly improbable.

I believe the ancient Macedonians were not Greek, but Macedonian.

I believe today's Macedonians have been in the Balkans for thousands of years, and are one of the oldest peoples in Europe.

I believe Macedonian should be called Macedonia (The Republic of Macedonia).

I believe Macedonians are Macedonians, and not "Slavs", "Slav Macedonians", FYROM,

I am Macedonian, all of my family is Macedonian, and you are asking me if I am Greek because I quoted some ignorant former Macedonian government officials?

What planet are you people on this forum on? Is this the twilight zone?