Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Phoenix]

I personally think 'the central balkan republic' is a better option. Its the best option because it wont offend any of our neighbors.

Nimettz, the UN, NATO, the USA and everyone else have no right to tell us what our name is or blackmail us with 'tempting offer' to change our name. What a fucking farce our politicians are playing along as well.

Gruevski should be hung in public, so future politician will understand what happens to traitors

See BBS, that's my point.

We're actually making progress, albeit at a glacial pace.
In 20 years we've gone from the totally abstract 'Central Balkan Republic' to the latest incarnation of abject stupidity, "Upper".
Nimitz's imagination is pretty good for a man in the advanced stages of senility. Is there even one (1) example of such a country descriptor in the World?
In this latest offering I can see a bit of the ol' Central Balkan Republic in the 'inspiration' that bred the gem, "Upper".
It has that Banana Republic/post colonial African nation feel to it that seems to best fit Macedonia's international reputation in regards to this embarrassing and self inflicted gun shot wound to the head situation that we have absolutely no balls to extract ourselves from.

[julie]

Upper.

UpYours.

Nice. Has a certain ring to it. Not.

This name dispute is as old as my first born, almost 23 years.

Never should have been on the table, cards, whatever

ANY person that votes for any change in name other than simply macedonian , can rot in everlasting hell. Including pretty boy and his spawn gruevski the prick

[sydney]

I like it Julie. It sounds like a new campaign similar to 'Say My Name'. Maybe something like 'Upper? Up Yours!'

[Vangelovski]

Name Negotiations

Sorry people, there are so many name negotiation threads and I still couldn't find one. The latest from Reeker on what he thinks Macedonia should do...and the UMD gave him some sort of friendship award...

US Urges Macedonian Courage Over Name Dispute

The Deputy Assistant US Secretary of State said Macedonia should resolve its dispute with Greece with the same courage that Serbia and Kosovo have shown in reaching their recent deal.

Deputy Assistant US Secretary of State Philip Reeker told Macedonian officials in Skopje that brave decisions need be taken in the longstanding dispute with Greece over the name of the country.

“Serbia and Kosovo are an example for overcoming problematic issues,” Reeker said, referring to the milestone EU-led deal that the governments in Belgrade and Pristina struck on April 19.

“A middle ground has to be found that will enable progress in solving the name dispute,” Reeker added, after meeting Macedonian President Gjorge Ivanov and Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski on Monday.

Greece insists that Macedonia’s name implies territorial claims to its own northern province, also called Macedonia. Greece is blocking Macedonia’s entry to NATO citing the failure to resolve the issue.
Reeker repeated the point in his talks with main opposition Social Democrat leaders Zoran Zaev and Radmila Sekerinska, sources in the party said.

He noted that solving the Macedonian name dispute is crucial because its resolution will open the way for the faster integration of Macedonia into the EU.

“Brave decisions are needed over the 'name', just as they were in the dispute between Serbia and Kosovo,” Reeker said, according to party sources.

Representatives of the opposition said that the US diplomat had highlighted the fact that “statesmanlike skills are needed”.

In a statement to the media, Reeker noted that US was satisfied with the latest compromise proposals of the UN mediator on the name dispute, Matthew Nimetz.

“The process that we support is continuing. A will is needed for dialogue and progress, not only by the leaders but also by the public,” Reeker said.

The diplomat also discussed the delayed formation of a commission of inquiry into the incidents in Macedonia's parliament on December 24, 2102, which led to a prolonged political crisis in the country.

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...ce=twitterfeed

[makedonche]

Sorry people, there are so many name negotiation threads and I still couldn't find one. The latest from Reeker on what he thinks Macedonia should do...and the UMD gave him some sort of friendship award...

US Urges Macedonian Courage Over Name Dispute

The Deputy Assistant US Secretary of State said Macedonia should resolve its dispute with Greece with the same courage that Serbia and Kosovo have shown in reaching their recent deal.

Deputy Assistant US Secretary of State Philip Reeker told Macedonian officials in Skopje that brave decisions need be taken in the longstanding dispute with Greece over the name of the country.

“Serbia and Kosovo are an example for overcoming problematic issues,” Reeker said, referring to the milestone EU-led deal that the governments in Belgrade and Pristina struck on April 19.

“A middle ground has to be found that will enable progress in solving the name dispute,” Reeker added, after meeting Macedonian President Gjorge Ivanov and Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski on Monday.

Greece insists that Macedonia’s name implies territorial claims to its own northern province, also called Macedonia. Greece is blocking Macedonia’s entry to NATO citing the failure to resolve the issue.
Reeker repeated the point in his talks with main opposition Social Democrat leaders Zoran Zaev and Radmila Sekerinska, sources in the party said.

He noted that solving the Macedonian name dispute is crucial because its resolution will open the way for the faster integration of Macedonia into the EU.

“Brave decisions are needed over the 'name', just as they were in the dispute between Serbia and Kosovo,” Reeker said, according to party sources.

Representatives of the opposition said that the US diplomat had highlighted the fact that “statesmanlike skills are needed”.

In a statement to the media, Reeker noted that US was satisfied with the latest compromise proposals of the UN mediator on the name dispute, Matthew Nimetz.

“The process that we support is continuing. A will is needed for dialogue and progress, not only by the leaders but also by the public,” Reeker said.

The diplomat also discussed the delayed formation of a commission of inquiry into the incidents in Macedonia's parliament on December 24, 2102, which led to a prolonged political crisis in the country.

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...ce=twitterfeed

I also urge "courage" over the name dispute. I urge all Macedonians in all parts of the world to take decisive action against any individual or entity that tries to alter/manipulate/recommend/coerce/bribe or sell out and changes to the name of the Macedonian people, country language, culture, traditions or history. I urge all Macedonians world wide to have the courage to stand up and tell them " this will not happen as long as I have blood running through my veins", I urge all Macedonians to find the courage to deal with all parties who engage in any activities that puts the name of the country and people at risk, and take all necessary actions to put an end to this disgraceful assault on our basic human rights!
As for Phillip Reeker, he only has two arms, two legs, one head and most importantly -only one voice - do not let one voice or any chorus of voices take away our basic human rights to self determination! All steps must be immediately taken to stop these pricks negotiating behind closed doors about who or what we are- they don't have the right to do it unless we give them that right or make it perfectly clear, using all means available, that they are infringing on our rights and that we will no longer tolerate it, we've been tolerant for over 20 years it's time to show everyone that's enough- no more!

[Stojacanec]

I don't know what Mr Reeker is referring to. Kosovas have by resolution decided to become an autonomous nation. The Serbs make a deal not to contest that. Well in the Macedonian constitution we deny any territorial aspirations to Aegean Macedonia.

One in the same thing Reeker! We have already done in the early 90s what the Serbs did a couple of weeks ago.

Time for a reality check for all that debate on our basic rights.

[George S.]

good point stojanec.How can the name be a problem for greece.More so it's not really a dispute as only greece is disputing the name.Greece is trying to imply that macedonia name all belongs to greece.The fact they are saying this is false as macedonia as a country is entitled to it.But greece only called its acquired territory greek province of macedonia.So one is a country Macedonia & the other is a province .The two can co exist with no problem.Greece should respect that it's our perogative what we should call ourselves ,that's the right to self determination.Greece only says there is a dispute so that it forces macedonia to change her name so that the name monopoly to greece will be given.You look at how macedonia was first acquired.Also look at how greece aquired a monopoly on the macedonian sunburst symbol & forced macedonia to adopt the ventilator.It'is the same thing with the name.greece accepted a monopoly on the sunburst symbol & registered it with world authorities.Only the greeks are allowed to use it.THere are no name issues or problems greece is bs that there are so they take our rights away to call ourselves what we want.

[Solid]

"I don't know what Mr Reeker is referring to. Kosovas have by resolution decided to become an autonomous nation"

Kosovo*

[George S.]

The Deputy Assistant US Secretary of State said Macedonia should resolve its dispute with Greece with the same courage that Serbia and Kosovo have shown in reaching their recent deal.What dispute,there is nolegitimate dispute.Macedonia does not dispute its name.Greece can call it's province what it want's.We all know the history but greece wants a monopoly on the name to preclude macedonia from using its own name self determination.When the macedonian constitution was drawn up greece interferred in putting clauses.So all macedonia did is to capitulate to the greek bully without foundation.So that backed into a corner of being asked to compromise or capitulate.Greece will get's its way as long as macedonia is a ready & willing partner in the name change game.How stupid & silly is it the greeks are allways in a win win situation.Macedonia if it changes it's name will be the big loser.

[Vangelovski]

Macedonians still playing the game...

http://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/politik...storija-svoeto

Always wanting to do it the impossible way.

[Stojacanec]

"I don't know what Mr Reeker is referring to. Kosovas have by resolution decided to become an autonomous nation"

Kosovo*

whats your point?

[Momce Makedonce]

Honestly if any politician actually even half cared about Macedonia, these name negotiations would not even exist right now... The name is Macedonia and its what the people want so how can you NEGOTIATE that ??

[George S.]

You are spot on M&M.Where are those politicians that care.They could allways say no.I don't think anyone can dictate on domestic affairs only if we let them.THis sort of thing is unheard of in the annals of history changing one's name to please a neighbour who feels they have a problem.I ask how the name of a province can affect them by a country with a similar name only if they want to turn the tables around to demand a monopoly on the name.Who is trying to fool who.They should be ignored like the plague as they are trying to destroy macedonia what's left of it.

[Momce Makedonce]

You are spot on M&M.Where are those politicians that care.They could allways say no.I don't think anyone can dictate on domestic affairs only if we let them.THis sort of thing is unheard of in the annals of history changing one's name to please a neighbour who feels they have a problem.I ask how the name of a province can affect them by a country with a similar name only if they want to turn the tables around to demand a monopoly on the name.Who is trying to fool who.They should be ignored like the plague as they are trying to destroy macedonia what's left of it.

Exactly George all they have to do is ignore them, we should`nt have to deal with their gluposti

[George S.]

Schrameyer: Solution is recognition of Macedonia's constitutional name

Schrameyer: Solution is recognition of Macedonia's constitutional name

6/19/2013

Berlin, 19 June 2013 (MIA) - Recognition of the constitutional name, respect of the Hague ruling and unblocking of Euro-Atlantic integration is the solution to the name dispute, says former German ambassador to Macedonia, Klaus Schrameyer.

"The Macedonia-Greece name row that is ongoing for more than 20 years has become serious, but in practice so useless and absurd. The more I deal with the Balkans, the more I am convinced this is an irrational and psycho-pathological problem of Greece, which is difficult to explain to western states. When discussing over Macedonia's name, I could name Greece 'Former Ottoman Province Hellas'", said Schrameyer at Tuesday's lecture "Greek-Macedonian Name Dispute 1991-2013" at the Leipzig University.

Schrameyer described Macedonia's battle for its name with the words "David against the entire world", adding the country has done a lot, but got little in return, alone in its fight for the name, Deutsche Welle reports.

"Skopje has met all Greek requirements in 1992, but received nothing but the illegal name FYROM. It went through an embargo, it changed the Constitution, it altered Article 49 saying it would not interfere in the neighbor's internal affairs, it changed the flag. Greece's argument was that the country has military aggressive affinities, although Badinter said back in 1992 the name by itself is not aggression", explained the former German ambassador.

Schrameyer stressed that after 1995, when Macedonia was forced into accepting reference FYROM, the country and its citizens continually received low blows from Athens. In 1999, Macedonia helped the Kosovo conflict settlement by receiving 220,000 troops and over 300,000 refugees. However, the assistance was not rewarded by Union accession or proper material damages. On the contrary, Athens violated the Interim Accord in 2008, confirmed by the Hague-based International Court of Justice, blocking Macedonia's NATO and Eu accession until today.
"It is scandalous that the ICJ ruling is not applied and no one protests over its disrespect", he added.

Schrameyer stressed that 130 countries have already recognized Macedonia under its constitutional name, meaning that Athens' blocks only damage itself and the leading role Greece could have on the Balkans, thus contributing to the strengthening of regional stability.
"Are there forces in Skopje and Athens that want to prevent the country's EU accession? Is maybe the mafia behind the blocks?", asked the former ambassador, saying Bulgaria's EU membership has shrunk the mafia's control in the area.

"I do not understand why the EU, the European partners, the United States have allowed this to happen - they decided to go against a sovereign country that has a right to choose its name. This is a phenomenon of our time", said Schrameyer.

Moreover, he presented proposals for settlement of the name row.
"Macedonia's constitutional name must be recognized. The legal message is clear: Athens must respect the Hague ruling and unblock the NATO and EU accession process", underlined the former ambassador in his lecture at the Leipzig University.


Is patience with NATO wearing thin in Western Balkans?
By Kacper Rekawek
11 June 2013

A bit of transparency, accountability and fairness in NATO's accession process for Western Balkan nations would go a long way to cementing the alliance's reputation in the region, says think-tank

http://www.publicserviceeurope.com/article/3580/is-patience-with-nato-wearing-thin-in-western-balkans

In 1999, 2004 and 2009 the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation – without a doubt still the world's most successful military alliance – accepted new members from central, eastern and southern Europe. But the pattern of taking in candidates every five years will be abandoned in 2014. The most that can be expected is an invitation or invitations for some Western Balkan states to join. And even that is a big 'if', as current NATO members could at any moment restate their opposition to the entry of seemingly unstable 'security consumers' as opposed to 'security providers'.

Unfortunately the patience of some of these 'security consumers' – which could themselves argue that all of the post-1999 entrants looked at first sight more like consumers than providers – is wearing thin. To an extent, they might say, no matter what some Western Balkan states such as Macedonia do, a new excuse will always be found to keep them in the alliance's antechamber. At the same time others, like Montenegro, another Western Balkan NATO hopeful, could feel emboldened by the feel-good factor created around its candidacy, despite the fact that on some accounts they fare worse than those given the cold shoulder.

So Macedonia, which was all but formally invited to the alliance in 2008, is in for another setback at the next NATO summit unless it mends fences with Greece, with which it fights a protracted recognition battle. On top of that, Bulgaria, another neighbour, has recently begun voicing its objections to Macedonia's integration with the European Union and NATO. Simultaneously, Montenegro – hardly in a better military position – looks set to receive an invitation at the very same summit. This is not to say that the latter does not merit an invitation and that the former is a case of flawless candidacy. Far from it.

But a bit more of accountability, transparency and fairness would go a long way in cementing the alliance's standing in this formerly troubled part of Europe. The local elites and experts already perceive NATO as a solution to their problems and often link the issue of membership with that of their countries' EU candidacies. In their eyes, the relations with and the progress to the two organisations are vital if the Western Balkans is ever to regain its rightful place in the Euro-Atlantic community. However, when NATO stalls, it might be perceived as an entity unready and unwilling to assist the Western Balkans in transforming itself in the mould of the other central and southern European post-communist states.

Of course, the alliance can always hide behind the issue of 'homework' yet to be completed if anyone wishes to join NATO – a very relevant point for Bosnia and Herzegovina, which first must implement an agreement on defence property being transferred to the ministry of defence before it actually marks its first step on the road to accession. Nonetheless, in the case of Macedonia, the homework is far less tangible and could be reduced to a single recommendation: persevere. One day you will join NATO and, in the meantime, concentrate on shaping the current alliance members' perception of your country and your candidacy à la Montenegro. In short, keep calm and carry on.

Kacper Rekawek is a research fellow at the Polish Institute of International Affairs think-tank

Read more: http://www.publicserviceeurope.com/a...#ixzz2Vw3AKiRo