Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Louis]

As far as I know so far Macedonia has not submitted request to join in any of these two organisations under the name FYR of Macedonia.

Did he fall from space or something?

[DraganOfStip]

This will be like repeating the Kosovo scenario - one sided declaration of independence (or of our constitutional name in this case) followed by recognition from all the friendly countries,and in time (which I think no one doubts any more it will eventually happen) from the entire world except Serbia (or Greece in our case).Sounds like a daring plan that might just work.The key factor again would be - TIME.It works for us now.I think the number of countries that recognize us under our constitutional name will only grow until eventually Greece is left alone in their cocoon of myths.The only question is - how long is it gonna take and are Macedonians prepared to wait that long and suffer the consequences during that period?

[George S.]

Robin O’Neil: It's time for Macedonia to seek recognition in the UN under its constit

Robin O’Neil: It's time for Macedonia to seek recognition in the UN under its constitutional name



By Bojana Dimitrijovska

August 4, 2012

http://sitel.com.mk:80/dnevnik/makedonija/robin-o-nil-vreme-e-makedonija-da-pobara-priznavanje-vo-pod-ustavnoto-ime

Now is the right time for Macedonia to seek UN recognition under its constitutional name.



British diplomat and first mediator in the Greek dispute with Macedonia, Robin O’Neil, in an interview with “Porta” encouragingly suggested that the Republic of Macedonia has the option of bringing this issue directly to the General Assembly this year. He believes that the recognition will come with the following recommendation: - Skopje and Athens double their efforts to resolve the problem.



“From that aspect I think that the General Secretary’s recent visit to Macedonia conveys both meaning and support. Ban Ki-moon said that the current dispute is “sad” and should “immediately” be solved and that he himself is committed to helping,” said O’Neil.



According to O’Neil, Macedonia’s membership under its constitutional name should in no way conflict with Nimetz’s mission. But statements coming from some Greek politicians, after the General Secretary’s visit to Macedonia, O’Neil says, are not in line with the positive atmosphere expressed by Ban Ki-moon.



Macedonia’s entry into NATO and the EU and the final solution to the name dispute are related but not identical, noted the British diplomat. According to O’Neil the 1995 Interim Accord offered a solution to the first problem. One of the Accord articles stated that Greece would not hinder Macedonia’s accession into international organizations such as NATO and the EU under the reference “Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.”



“The Hague International Court of Justice confirmed that Greece needs to respect its obligations and responsibilities. Up until now, as far as I am aware, Macedonia has not asked to join either of these two organizations under the reference ‘Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.’ I can understand the Macedonian government’s suspicion regarding the consequences of entering into these organizations under that inappropriate reference (‘Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia’) in case it becomes permanent. However, we should remember that the Interim Agreement recognizes the “Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia’ only as a temporary reference,” said the former British diplomat.



O’Neil, first mediator in the bilateral dispute, believes that Greece must devote more effort to its dispute with Macedonia over the name.



“The Greek government should concentrate on the more serious problems it is facing and it should not be wasting its time. But, without delay, it should solve this purely artificial dispute which, generally speaking, is not against the security and prosperity of Greece, but rather it is an essential addition to it. I must admit that the name issue is a highly emotional and political issue (and that is why no one else can be accused except for the political parties of Greece).



According to O’Neil, Greeks will soon realize that the resolution of the dispute did them and their country no harm.





Робин О Нил: Време е Македонија да побара признавање во ОН под уставното име



04.08.2012 - 09:28 |

http://sitel.com.mk:80/dnevnik/makedonija/robin-o-nil-vreme-e-makedonija-da-pobara-priznavanje-vo-pod-ustavnoto-ime

Вистинско време е Македонија да побара признавање во ОН под уставното име.



Британскиот дипломат и прв медијатор во македонско-грчкиот спор Робин О Нил во интервју за емисијата „Порта“ охрабрува дека земјава годинава пред Генералното собрание може да го изнесе ова прашање. Смета дека признавањето би одело со придружна препорака - Скопје и Атина да ги удвојат своите напори за решавање на проблемот.

- Од овој аспект сметам дека неодамнешната посета на Македонија од страна на генералниот секретар носи и значење и поддршка. Бан Ки Мун коментираше дека тековниот спор е “жалосен“, и дека треба “неодложно“ да се реши, како и дека тој самиот е посветен да помогне во тоа- рече О Нил.



Според него, членството под уставното име не треба на никој начин да се судира со мисијата на Нимиц. Но изјавите кои доаѓаат од некои грчки политичари по посетата на Генералниот секеретар на Македонија, О Нил вели дека не се во согласност со позитивната атмосфера на која Бан- Ки Мун повикуваше.



Влезот на Македонија во НАТО и ЕУ и конечното решение за спорот со името , се поврзани но не се идентични, потенцира британскиот дипломат. Привремената спогодба од 1995 според него нуди решение на првиот од двата проблеми. Потсетува на членот од Спогодбата во кој се вели дека Грција нема да го попречи приемот на Македонија во меѓународни организации како што се НАТО и ЕУ, под рефернцата ПЈРМ.



- Меѓународниот суд на правдата во Хаг, потврди дека Грција е обврзана да ја почитува оваа своја обврска. Досега, колку што ми е познато, Македонија нема поднесено барање да се приклучи кон ниедна од овие две организации под името ФИРОМ. Можам да ги сфатам сомневањата од страна на владата на Македонија за последиците од влез во овие организации под незадоволувачкото (несоодветно) име ФИРОМ, во случај тоа да остане трајно. Меѓутоа, треба да се запомни, дека Привремената спогодба го признава името ФИРОМ само како привремено име- посочува поранешниот британски дипломат.



Првиот медијатор во билатералниот спор смета дека Грција треба повеќе да се посвети на решавањето на спорот со името.


- Грчката влада треба да се концентрира на сериозните проблеми со кои се соочува и затоа не треба веќе да губи време. Но, треба без одлагање да реши еден чисто вештачки спор кој воопшто не е против безбедноста и просперитетот на Грција , туку напротив е суштински прилог кон„ тоа. Признавам дека прашањето за името е надувано во високо емотивен политички проблем (а за тоа не може никој друг да биде обвинет освен политичките партии на Грција.



Според О Нил, со решението на спорот Грците ќе сфатат дека тоа не им штети ниту на нив, ниту на нивната држава.

[The LION will ROAR]

Gorgi, Before you post something, check to see if it hasn't already been posted.. I'm seeing a trend with you..no offence, just don't like seeing MTO with duplicate threads..
Poz

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6879

[Big Bad Sven]

This will be like repeating the Kosovo scenario - one sided declaration of independence (or of our constitutional name in this case) followed by recognition from all the friendly countries,and in time (which I think no one doubts any more it will eventually happen) from the entire world except Serbia (or Greece in our case).Sounds like a daring plan that might just work.The key factor again would be - TIME.It works for us now.I think the number of countries that recognize us under our constitutional name will only grow until eventually Greece is left alone in their cocoon of myths.The only question is - how long is it gonna take and are Macedonians prepared to wait that long and suffer the consequences during that period?

Macedonians have already 'waited' for too long now, 20+ years of this bullshit name 'dispute'.

Action must be taken now, we need to make a stand

[United MKD]

Exactly, I think 20 years is more than enough waiting. As RtG said in one post we are gonna be 'former YugoslavROM' longer than what we actually were in Yugoslavia at this current rate. What a farce.

[Vangelovski]

This will be like repeating the Kosovo scenario - one sided declaration of independence (or of our constitutional name in this case) followed by recognition from all the friendly countries,and in time (which I think no one doubts any more it will eventually happen) from the entire world except Serbia (or Greece in our case).Sounds like a daring plan that might just work.The key factor again would be - TIME.It works for us now.I think the number of countries that recognize us under our constitutional name will only grow until eventually Greece is left alone in their cocoon of myths.The only question is - how long is it gonna take and are Macedonians prepared to wait that long and suffer the consequences during that period?

A daring plan? What, asking 200 countries instead of just Greece what we should be called? That goes in the complete opposite direction of what Macedonia should be doing, i.e., exercising its national sovereignty. How is it that Macedonians just keep getting it consistently WRONG?

You know what a "daring" plan would be? Sending the UN a diplomatic note (as per standard practice) informing them that from now it will refer to Macedonia as Macedonia.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The key factor again would be - TIME.It works for us now.I think the number of countries that recognize us under our constitutional name will only grow until eventually Greece is left alone in their cocoon of myths.The only question is - how long is it gonna take and are Macedonians prepared to wait that long and suffer the consequences during that period?

Macedonia has been garbaged at every international event for the past 20 years. Macedonians who truly respect their identity tend to not mention the country to others during such events for the sake of avoiding the inevitable FYROM reference. The only people in a 'cocoon of myths' are those who actually believe that 'time' will solve this problem. The only thing that 'time' has done is legitimise the injustice, which has been imposed by others and perpetuated by our own feeble-minded politicians and the sheep who support and follow them. A whole generation of Macedonians have been born and have lived knowing nothing other than the country of their ancestors being referred to as FYROM on the world stage. Not to mention the fake kamikaze-like flag that replaced a real Macedonian symbol. Here is an example of what 'time' has done for our people and what many of them have come to accept:

[Phoenix]

This will be like repeating the Kosovo scenario - one sided declaration of independence (or of our constitutional name in this case) followed by recognition from all the friendly countries,and in time (which I think no one doubts any more it will eventually happen) from the entire world except Serbia (or Greece in our case).Sounds like a daring plan that might just work.The key factor again would be - TIME.It works for us now.I think the number of countries that recognize us under our constitutional name will only grow until eventually Greece is left alone in their cocoon of myths.The only question is - how long is it gonna take and are Macedonians prepared to wait that long and suffer the consequences during that period?

WTF...It's NOTHING like Kosovo, that's a really stupid comparison.

"Daring" ...you've got to be fuckin' kidding me...instead of looking at it as the most fundemental process a nation needs to undertake to establish its sovereignty, you prefer to label it as a "Daring" plan, as if we're undertaking some, against the odds activity that we have no right to attempt...

[DraganOfStip]

WTF...It's NOTHING like Kosovo, that's a really stupid comparison.

"Daring" ...you've got to be fuckin' kidding me...instead of looking at it as the most fundemental process a nation needs to undertake to establish its sovereignty, you prefer to label it as a "Daring" plan, as if we're undertaking some, against the odds activity that we have no right to attempt...

Why is it a stupid comparison,mate?Didn't Kosovo stop all negotiations with Serbia and declared independence unilaterally?And then came recognition from other countries (shamefully enough we're one of them) and so far it works great for them.I'm not comparing the legitimacy etc.,I'm talking about the WAY they did what they did.So we need to do the same thing - stop all negotiations with Greece and stick to our constitutional name in the UN.
And I meant "daring" as in "we don't know how many countries will Greece convince to vote against it" kind of manner.Our petition in the UN will be reviewed by ALL UN member-states some of which have close ties with Greece and can be easily turned on their side.If it was only Greece (and it's child Cyprus) it won't be "daring" since it's gonna be 200 against 2.That's what I'm saying.Don't forget Greece despite it's crisis still has a lot of support in the world,the ongoing so-called "name issue" is a proof itself.

Doing this in the UN is a good idea,I say GO FOR IT.

[Momce Makedonce]

Macedonia has been garbaged at every international event for the past 20 years. Macedonians who truly respect their identity tend to not mention the country to others during such events for the sake of avoiding the inevitable FYROM reference. The only people in a 'cocoon of myths' are those who actually believe that 'time' will solve this problem. The only thing that 'time' has done is legitimise the injustice, which has been imposed by others and perpetuated by our own feeble-minded politicians and the sheep who support and follow them. A whole generation of Macedonians have been born and have lived knowing nothing other than the country of their ancestors being referred to as FYROM on the world stage. Not to mention the fake kamikaze-like flag that replaced a real Macedonian symbol. Here is an example of what 'time' has done for our people and what many of them have come to accept:

What an embarrassing photo. Cant believe there are Macedonian athletes who are willing to participate in the Olympics at that cost. People have accepted the new flag over the real one and if things continue going like this I would not be suprised if they accept that name as well.

[Vechni]

They don't look like athletes, might be rent an athlete, from Greece! just for the name sake, the ROM government should refuse to participate unless we enter as Macedonia. We have the wrong leaders!!!

[Stojacanec]

No, it’s nothing like Kosovo. You can't even begin to compare the two. Macedonia was a full federal state of Yugoslavia, not a breakaway province from a single country. The two are chalk and cheese.

I don't call going to the UN to be called Macedonia daring. I call it our god given right. The modern greeks have successfully interfered in our affairs over the past 20 year and continuing to do so. The remnants of that are a product of that photo from the opening ceremony. What an embarrassment!

I call it utterly stupid to wait (Time) until Greece is the only country left not to recognise us but "we have to continue to suffer along the way"

Let O'Neal and Ban Ki Moon lead us to the UN. I don't care who starts the ball rolling cause I would be right behind them!

[Soldier of Macedon]

What an embarrassing photo. Cant believe there are Macedonian athletes who are willing to participate in the Olympics at that cost. People have accepted the new flag over the real one and if things continue going like this I would not be suprised if they accept that name as well.

The fact that they willingly stand beside a banner that uses the long form of FYROM is evidence enough that many Macedonians have accepted that name as well.

[DraganOfStip]

No, it’s nothing like Kosovo. You can't even begin to compare the two. Macedonia was a full federal state of Yugoslavia, not a breakaway province from a single country. The two are chalk and cheese.

I don't call going to the UN to be called Macedonia daring. I call it our god given right. The modern greeks have successfully interfered in our affairs over the past 20 year and continuing to do so. The remnants of that are a product of that photo from the opening ceremony. What an embarrassment!

I call it utterly stupid to wait (Time) until Greece is the only country left not to recognise us but "we have to continue to suffer along the way"

Let O'Neal and Ban Ki Moon lead us to the UN. I don't care who starts the ball rolling cause I would be right behind them!

Once again,I was only referring to their action:stop all negotiations and stand for what they believe in and what they want,that's all,I'm not comparing the countries.It's far beyond comparison.Just end all negotiations now and let them whine about it as much as they want.