Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Bill77]

I have a question, and there is method in my madness.
How are the basketball players sponsored, is it private sponsorship or government?

If it is private sponsorship, why doesnt the basketball team drape the kutlesh sonce around them in a win?
Am sure if they go to a group of Macedonian fans watching, they would be happy to provide it

Someone asked why security were put on to the Macedonians in the crowd on facebook, and who did. At first it was logical to assume the Greeks, and the more I think about it, the more I think it was the Macedonian government quashing any form of national pride, to accept ventilator for their upcoming new name change, all part of the FA

Julie, i don't think the players would be allowed to enter the court if they were to wear another emblem different from their state flag. Don't quote me on this, but i think in any major sporting events such as this, the team has to notify the association and hand them the tops they will be wearing pryor to the competition starting. Its not fair, i know.

Now options are, players can Ban the competition and we live in isolation. Or suffer a bit for the chance of achieving something such as what is happening now. As comita said, every comentator calls us Macedonia, because Macedonians are out there chanting it, waving scarves and flags with Macedonia written on them. These are just some of the benifits that comes out of this. As i said we should not throw the baby out with the bath water. Things will change once we feel good about each other.

Regarding the security confiscating the giant flag, i just read comments where its a FIBA rule regarding size of flags. I don't think it had anything to do with it being the kutlesh.

I will add that FIBA is a disgrace, they have larger problems to concentrate on, such as Greece bribing umpires, instead of being concerned about size of flags.

[julie]

OK, what is stopping the team next win (they are playing well) from draping the kutlesh sonce around them then, after the game and. when they are being interviewed straight after, its there for everyone to see

[Bill77]

OK, what is stopping the team next win (they are playing well) from draping the kutlesh sonce around them then, after the game and. when they are being interviewed straight after, its there for everyone to see

I have a feeling we might see it during the celebrations after the final. If we get that far. I don't think any team in any sport get ahead of themselves with such celebrations. You see it in some individuals sports.

If you are asking for defiance against the ventilator, then don't hold your breath. You see, they can't see the symbolism behind the ventilator as we do. As DCH said, they are taught to salute it, they see it out on the streets everywhere, its normal for them. Julie, we in the diaspora are fortunate in that its not shoved in our face, therefor, our minds are clear to look at things and interpret things much clearly. Well most of us in the diaspora anyway, i can show you a photo from last week, of a group of 20 youths in a train heading to Melbourne city for the independence celebrations all decked out in Red and yellow, but to my shock, someone had to pull out the ventilator and spoil it. So if this kid can not understand, what hope has the majority in the republic have.

[julie]

Bill, my family overseas hate it, with a passion, taxi drivers that drove us around hated it, every person I came into contact with over there, I asked for their views before I stated my opinion and disdain for it, they all hate it

Its not such a small minority that despise it in Macedonia

[Bill77]

Bill, my family overseas hate it, with a passion, taxi drivers that drove us around hated it, every person I came into contact with over there, I asked for their views before I stated my opinion and disdain for it, they all hate it

Its not such a small minority that despise it in Macedonia

That is pleasing to hear. Then why do so many display it as do in the Diaspora. I don't believe their motives are an anti Macedonian gesture.



This is last week in Melbourne. What is his excuse? are the Macedonians in Australia fake patriots?

Do we drag the others down because they are with him?

Is there no hope for this kid?

Am i a lover of the ventilator for showing how proud these kids are even in an unfortunate incident where a ventilator is displayed?

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

Is that Daniel the Great on the left?

[julie]

That is pleasing to hear. Then why do so many display it as do in the Diaspora. I don't believe their motives are an anti Macedonian gesture.



This is last week in Melbourne. What is his excuse? are the Macedonians in Australia fake patriots?

Do we drag the others down because they are with him?

Is there no hope for this kid?

Am i a lover of the ventilator for showing how proud these kids are even in an unfortunate incident where a ventilator is displayed?

Absolutely not Bill
Its about informing them, and telling them that the ventilator is a glag enforced upon a sovereign state, educating them about the framework agreement and telling them its a flag of capitulation, that as a Macedonian that believes in a true democratic free Macedonia, that we do not accept the FA and the conditions imposed upon us, but that we are wanting a true sovereign state. Its about educating the ignorant, the ones that genuinely have NFI. Once explained to them, they will understand, or if they are die hard VMRO will be willing to accept capitulation, because this is not VMRO, this is a treasonous government that should be declaring the FA null and void

[George S.]

despite the discussions we have had some people don't seem to mind the ventilator.That mindset is a simple reminder that macedonian existence is slowly being erroded away.Personally i don't like the use of the ventilator.But what would happen if they were forced to capitulate on a n non sun symbol how would you feel about that .that's how i feel
that some greek can tell us in 2011 what we can have or cannot have.The problem is we should not accept anything from them as they only want to destroy us.I think like lambs to the slaughterhouse we have grown acustomed.We won't stop at the flag we will change our name to suit our neighbour.

[Bill77]

Absolutely not Bill
Its about informing them, and telling them that the ventilator is a glag enforced upon a sovereign state, educating them about the framework agreement and telling them its a flag of capitulation, that as a Macedonian that believes in a true democratic free Macedonia, that we do not accept the FA and the conditions imposed upon us, but that we are wanting a true sovereign state. Its about educating the ignorant, the ones that genuinely have NFI. Once explained to them, they will understand, or if they are die hard VMRO will be willing to accept capitulation, because this is not VMRO, this is a treasonous government that should be declaring the FA null and void

Da mi si ziva sestro. educate them rather then labeling them all sorts of labels. This kid was spoken to regarding how evil this flag was, but it was not he that was the evil one. I am not sure if he understood and accepted it. But i have no doubt the chances of a positive to come out of it are much greater than if i called him a fake patriot, or pijanica, or predavnik, shit the list can go on and on.

[julie]

Da mi si ziva sestro. educate them rather then labeling them all sorts of labels. This kid was spoken to regarding how evil this flag was, but it was not he that was the evil one. I am not sure if he understood and accepted it. But i have no doubt the chances of a positive to come out of it are much greater than if i called him a fake patriot, or pijanica, or predavnik, shit the list can go on and on.

Both you and I were initially uneducated in what the flag of capitulation was about, and once explained to us (me by Indigen), it was a no brainer for me
It is about educating people, our youth, and I use my sons as an example, most have NFI here in Oz, unless we explain to them what happened, the FA and what the ventilator stands for
I have said this before, instead of immediately labelling people as predavnici etc, especially our youth which is Macedonia's future, its about EDUCATING them, explaining the reasons why the ventilator is an acceptance for loss of sovereignty
If someone is labelled, they will not be able to understand why, it needs to be explained, my boys had NFI until I explained it to them

[Vangelovski]

Bumped up. Another timely reminder of where certain symbols and ideas have come from. Further, a reminder of what the Macedonian Government is currently attempting to ENFORCE at the ICJ.

[George S.]

They must be aware of what they are doing immense damage to macedonia & it's people & it's like a forgone conclusion.Looks like they have made their decisions without consulting the people.Who ever has done this i mean past & present govts have not got any kind of mandate to change anything.I'm sure if a majority of the macedonian citizenry were ever informed of these decisions then i'm sure they would never approve any measures of the interim accord.How these politicians could have done what they did amounts to nothing but traitorship & treasoness of the highest order.Macedonia has in effect signed her own death warrant.

[George S.]

If you look at the interim accord agreement it calls us by our nonsensical name FYROM.It doesn't even recognize who we are.We forgo any symbols & name to the advantage of greece our enemy.Like sheep to the slaughter house the govt of the day has signed this worthless piece of agreement at the immense damage to macedonia.THe traitors Branko Crvenkovski must have realised how he is selling out on macedonia.THis has impacted heavily on macedonia in that greece is now waiting on macedonia to change it's name.Greece is not doing anything for macedonia.Perhaps under the guise of an entry to nato or eu membership.

[Vangelovski]

I don't know George - I don't think there is a Macedonian alive (in Macedonia at least) that is not aware of the Interim Accord. It just seems that the almighty Euro is more important and freedom...though I still don't see how acceptance of foreign domination (by Greece) is going to get those Euro's in their pockets?

[George S.]

Tom do you think after the icj.The macedonians can revoke the interim accord as it was only mean't for a short time.It is not in macedonia's interest to be tied down by it.Whil'st the greeks can literally do what they want.I have never seen such a blatant disregard for macedonian rights as the interim accord.How our politicians can sell us short for this agreement amazes me.