Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

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  • The LION will ROAR
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 3231

    Macedonian World Protest


    This is a time were Macedonians across the world should do the same..
    The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

    Comment

    • Vangelovski
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 8533

      A one off protest, although good for community morale and letting off steam is not very effective. I would like to see a mass on-going camp-in rally accompanied by widespread acts of civil disobedience state wide that lasts for as long as necessary for the Government to declare the Interim Accord 'null and void' and reverse all contitutional provisions, laws and policies that stem from the Accord.
      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13675

        That's a good point mate. Although there is certainly benefit in such action, what is the end goal, and what happens the day after the protest? It needs to be perpetual. Hopefully it can inspire Macedonians to be a little more persistent in having their demands met.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • Vangelovski
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 8533

          SoM, I did say that the goal is for the Government to declare the Interim Accord null and void and that it has to reverse everything that came out of it and that the protests need to last for as long as this happens So my suggestion was a specific goal (Interim Accord) and a timeframe (as long as necessary to acheive that specific goal).
          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15660

            International Crisis Group - Enemy of Macedonians



            Macedonia: Ten Years after the Conflict

            Europe Report N°21211 Aug 2011
            EXECUTIVE SUMMARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS

            Ten years after signature of the Ohrid Framework Agreement (OFA) that ended fighting between the country’s ethnic Albanians and Macedonians, much of the agreement has been implemented, and a resumption of armed conflict is unlikely. Macedonia is justified in celebrating its success in integrating minorities into political life, but inter-party and inter-ethnic tensions have been growing for five years. While this part of the Balkans looks to eventual EU membership to secure stability, it remains fragile, and worrying trends – rising ethnic Macedonian nationalism, state capture by the prime minister and his party, decline in media and judicial independence, increased segregation in schools and slow decentralisation – risk undermining the multi-ethnic civil state Macedonia can become. Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski, who has just formed a new government, should work closely with his Albanian coalition partners and opposition parties to pass and implement the measures needed for more democratisation, inter-ethnic reconciliation and a solution to the name dispute with Greece.

            On 5 June Macedonia held elections that international observers assessed as generally positive and whose results political parties accepted quickly. The opposition Alliance of Social Democrats in Macedonia (SDSM) coalition increased its presence in parliament from 27 to 42 seats. Re-elected to lead the government, but with ten less seats, Gruevski and his Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organisation – Democratic Party of Macedonian National Unity (VMRO-DPMNE) will now have to cooperate more closely with their Albanian coalition partner, the Democratic Union for Integration (DUI). Albanian parties should strengthen their loyalty to the state and engage more substantially in policy and decision-making. The new more pluralistic and balanced 123-seat parliament should foster greater cooperation among political elites and help overcome the highly polarised environment that was exacerbated during the SDSM’s four-month parliamentary boycott.

            A more balanced legislature should also temper the prime minister’s state-sponsored nationalism, most evident in the hugely expensive and divisive urban renewal program in Skopje, built around a nationalist vision of ancient Macedonia that is offensive to the country’s minorities and Greece alike. The failures to secure NATO membership in April 2008 and to begin negotiations over membership with the EU in 2009, four years after obtaining candidate status, helped Gruevski secure support for his “national renaissance” policy line. The resulting increased emphasis on nationalism, however, is dividing Macedonians unhealthfully between “patriots’ and “traitors”, irritating Albanians and discouraging Macedonia’s friends in the EU.

            The previous government coalition captured many state institutions, especially the parliament that it dominated. Political dialogue broke down, and Gruevski and the SDSM leader attacked each other in highly personal terms. Legislative boycotts and laws passed under emergency procedures undermined democratic debate. VMRO-DPMNE and DUI party members were favoured for public jobs, without regard for merit. The government reduced criticism in parts of the highly politicised media by buying favours through advertising. Selective fiscal investigation into and subsequent forced bankruptcy of the opposition-leaning television station A1 and detention of its owner were viewed at home and abroad as silencing criticism. As under past administrations, the judiciary lacked independence.

            Relations between ethnic Macedonians and Albanians also suffered. The government was criticised for not doing enough to ensure equitable representation, implement the law on languages and oppose cultural exclusion. At the same time, segregation in the education system was becoming more entrenched. Although a good institutional framework exists to promote and encourage inter-ethnic dialogue, relations suffered from weak central government support. The prevalent view among much of the Albanian political elite is that the DUI must be more forceful in articulating the needs of ethnic Albanians than it was in the previous coalition.

            Albanians are especially frustrated at successive governments’ inability to resolve the name issue. As Crisis Group has repeatedly argued, the dispute risks derailing the strategies of the EU and NATO to stabilise Macedonia and the wider region through integration and enlargement. Years of UN-mediated negotiations have made little progress, and further talks have not been scheduled. Macedonia in particular appears to be waiting for an International Court of Justice (ICJ) verdict in the case it brought for alleged violations of the 1995 Interim Agreement that regulates bilateral relations in the absence of a name agreement. The financial crisis in Greece and popular resentment of austerity measures there do not make it easy for the Greek leadership to focus on resolving the dispute. Nevertheless, Macedonia should seek decisive progress so as not to miss the opportunity to get the go-ahead for membership negotiations when the EU makes new enlargement decisions in December.

            Citizens of all ethnic backgrounds and political persuasion have reason to celebrate Ohrid’s tenth anniversary. The OFA has done much to reduce discrimination and inequality and maintain unity. It is still needed to forge a common understanding of the civic state. During his immediately preceding term as prime minister, however, Gruevski sought to build a strong state identity based on Macedonia’s ancient history, from which ethnic Albanians feel excluded. They are more focused on advocating a highly decentralised federal and bilingual state that ethnic Macedonians see as threatening to the country’s survival. The two concepts have little in common; managing and shaping them so that they can provide mutual support or at least coexist constructively is difficult. But bringing Macedonia’s political and ethnic elites and ordinary citizens closer together around a shared vision of a unified multi-national state is a challenge that the new government cannot avoid.

            RECOMMENDATIONS

            To Strengthen Democracy and the Rule of Law

            1. The new government and opposition should improve dialogue in parliament. Party leaders should meet regularly to discuss major domestic and international issues. Cooperation at the committee level should be strengthened. Boycotts should be avoided.

            2. The government should bolster implementation of laws to ensure the judiciary is free of political influence. It should stop exerting pressure on the media, public institutions and civil society. A parliamentary oversight committee on the media should be established.

            3. The new government should invest in capacity building for members of non-majority communities and ensure that all ethnic communities are represented in public institutions equitably. Hiring based on political party affiliation should stop.

            4. The EU, U.S., and other international partners should prioritise support for strengthening independent institutions and encourage media and civil society to monitor those institutions’ work.

            5. The government should make EU reforms a priority, and the EU should work with Macedonia and start screening its legislation to quicken harmonisation with the EU body of law (acquis communitaire).

            To Further Improve Inter-ethnic Relations

            6. All political parties should celebrate the ten-year anniversary of the Ohrid Framework Agreement, acknowledging that many of its provisions have been implemented, but continuous dialogue and additional financial resources are needed to implement the law on languages and to achieve the decentralisation, equal treatment and equitable representation necessary to ensure that Macedonia is a multi-ethnic civic state where no group feels discriminated against.

            7. Through more consensual work on curriculum and textbook development and joint activities in schools, ethnic Macedonian and Albanian elites should develop and implement the integrated education project intended to unite the country’s youth, and donors should give them support. Only new history books that have been developed consistent with this strategy should be printed and distributed.

            8. The language law must be fully implemented, with use of Albanian further extended to state institutions; Skopje should be made a bilingual capital.

            9. The parliamentary committee on inter-ethnic relations and the municipal-level inter-ethnic committees should meet more regularly, monitor inter-ethnic issues and contribute to policy-making more effectively.

            To Resolve the Name Dispute and Advance Macedonia’s Euro-Atlantic Integration

            10. Skopje should accept the UN mediator’s proposal for using “Republic of North Macedonia” or a similar formula with a geographic qualifier as the name of the country for all international purposes; promptly after it does so, NATO should admit Macedonia, and the EU should begin membership negotiations.

            11. Athens should acknowledge the national identity and language of its northern neighbour as “Macedonian”; Skopje should reverse its decision to rename its airport after Alexander the Great and desist from similar moves certain to provoke Athens, especially within the context of its Skopje 2014 project.

            Skopje/Istanbul/Brussels, 11 August 2011
            Utterly disgusting treatment of Macedonians here. Pick a paragraph and lets discuss the abuse together.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15660

              A more balanced legislature should also temper the prime minister’s state-sponsored nationalism, most evident in the hugely expensive and divisive urban renewal program in Skopje, built around a nationalist vision of ancient Macedonia that is offensive to the country’s minorities and Greece alike.
              Why is being Macedonian so offensive to Macedonia's minorities and Greece? Why would anybody refer to ancient Macedonia and think modern Macedonians have no right to celebrate the era's glory?
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15660

                Through more consensual work on curriculum and textbook development and joint activities in schools, ethnic Macedonian and Albanian elites should develop and implement the integrated education project intended to unite the country’s youth, and donors should give them support. Only new history books that have been developed consistent with this strategy should be printed and distributed.
                Can ethnic Macedonians in Greece assist the Greeks with their curriculum first?
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15660

                  The language law must be fully implemented, with use of Albanian further extended to state institutions; Skopje should be made a bilingual capital.
                  Perhaps a census is in order. It is widely known the previous numbers were not accurate. Why would anyone suggest creating a bilingual capital when they don't even know how many ethnic Albanians are actually in the country? What obligation does Macedonia have for the ex Kosovo refugees who never returned to their homeland?
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15660

                    The financial crisis in Greece and popular resentment of austerity measures there do not make it easy for the Greek leadership to focus on resolving the dispute.
                    Greece couldn't convince Macedonia to forego its identity back in the lavish EU funded days. It can't do it now. Why should anybody be feeling sorry for Greece's predicament? What compels Macedonia to give up its identity just because Greece is now weaker than it has ever been whilst in the EU?
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15660

                      worrying trends – rising ethnic Macedonian nationalism, state capture by the prime minister and his party, decline in media and judicial independence, increased segregation in schools and slow decentralisation – risk undermining the multi-ethnic civil state Macedonia can become.
                      Macedonians do not want a multi-ethnic civil state. They are the majority presently, why shouldn't they be afforded similar courtesies?
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Pelister
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2742

                        It has been official European Union policy since at least 1994 to erase all references to Macedonia.

                        I find the comments and the statements in this report to be extremely offensive, taking every opportunity to villify the Macedonians simple for being Macedonians.

                        It is painful to watch deceivers like Gruevski and UMD continue to spin the bullshit that this organisation and its affiliated NGO's mean us no harm. It is time that the Macedonians addressed these anti-Macedonian politices head one, with some strong language and stronger action!

                        Comment

                        • julie
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2009
                          • 3869

                          Gruevski sought to build a strong state identity based on Macedonia’s ancient history, from which ethnic Albanians feel excluded. They are more focused on advocating a highly decentralised federal and bilingual state that ethnic Macedonians see as threatening to the country’s survival

                          WTF!!!!!!!!!!!

                          MACEDONIANS are feeling excluded from living in their own country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                          I am here and everywhere I have been, they feel inferior to the effing Albanians

                          as for NEW HISTORY BOOKS is it another bullshit ploy in rewriting history as the effing grks have done

                          Every sentence here I can pick to a million pieces it is a travesty of injustice, Macedonians have to bend over and take it because the EU and Greece tell us to give up our sovereignty, freedom, our ethnicity and very identity??

                          THE MACEDONIAN GOVERNMENT MUST DECLARE THE FRAMEWORK AGREEMENT NULL AND VOID if Macedonia stands a chance in any form of continuance of ethnicity

                          THIS IS CULTURAL, AND ETHNIC GENOCIDE THAT IS BEING ENFORCED ON THE MACEDONIAN PEOPLE
                          "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                          Comment

                          • julie
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2009
                            • 3869

                            Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                            Perhaps a census is in order. It is widely known the previous numbers were not accurate. Why would anyone suggest creating a bilingual capital when they don't even know how many ethnic Albanians are actually in the country? What obligation does Macedonia have for the ex Kosovo refugees who never returned to their homeland?
                            A MONITORED, POLICED CENSUS is in order.
                            refugees from Kosovo , this is a joke, as much rights as refugee boat people are given in Australia
                            "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                            Comment

                            • Volk
                              Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 894

                              written by anonymous authors? paid agents...
                              Makedonija vo Srce

                              Comment

                              • Zarni
                                Banned
                                • May 2011
                                • 672

                                There is nothing surprising abut the ICG's tones written to deny and vilify the Macedonians to no end its head is Gareth Evens remember this Australian stooge

                                I wish the Macedonians displayed a hint of Nationalism and pride imagine how the ICG would see the Macedonian Diaspora then

                                Comment

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