Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Risto the Great]

its not quarter to 12 for grease its even quarter past 12, they are finished ....can u see/feel it too guys ?

I think so too. These are desperate measures by Greece, do they really think this will help them forget the misery of their economy and State?
But I am still left wondering what the next "trick" will be.

[Bratot]

They may pretend to be tough shit, but here is the situation :

1. They have constant hostility vs Turkiye

2. After NATO summit in Bucarest, they have to deal the USA respond ( it's happening )

3. They have 2 million non-greek population

4. We issued them to the court of UN

5. Their government is having too much corruption scandals

6. Lack of watter supplies

7. Summer wildfire

8. Electricity problem

9. Enormous debts


... SOMETHING TO ADD?

[Venom]

Rioting like never before seen.

Economy going down the drain.

The gas problem.

Dora.

[Bratot]

ICG: Macedonia's Name: Breaking the Deadlock!

INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP - NEW BRIEFING

Macedonia’s Name: Breaking the Deadlock


Pristina/Brussels, 12 January 2009: The dispute between Athens and Skopje over Macedonia’s name puts at risk the European Union (EU) and NATO strategy for stabilising the still fragile western Balkans.

Macedonia’s Name: Breaking the Deadlock,* the latest International Crisis
Group briefing, analyses attempts to resolve the dispute, and the consequences of failure for Macedonia and the surrounding region.

Although there is no imminent risk of a return to violence between ethnic Macedonians and the Albanian minority, the disagreement between Skopje and Athens puts at risk the progress achieved since the 2001 Ohrid Agreement that ended an incipient civil war in the one-time Yugoslav republic.

After Greece blocked Macedonia’s NATO entry at the April 2008 Bucharest summit, relations between the two countries deteriorated to levels not seen since the early 1990s. Athens now threatens to similarly oppose the start of Macedonia’s EU membership negotiations. The Macedonian government of Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski shares some responsibility. Renaming Skopje Airport after Alexander the Great and a number of other moves were seen by Greeks as an offensive appropriation of their Hellenic heritage and a direct provocation.

“By blocking NATO and EU integration, Greece appeared to contravene its undertaking in the 1995 Interim Accord between the two states not to let the name issue stand in the way of Macedonia’s membership of international organisations”, says Sabine Freizer, Crisis Group’s Europe Program Director. “Pending agreement, Skopje should use its provisional name, ‘the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia’, in all multilateral forums, and Athens should drop its veto threats”.

To tackle the issue, both sides must first rebuild trust. Skopje should avoid provocations and accept the UN mediator’s latest proposal to rename the country as the “Republic of North Macedonia”. Skopje and Athens should undertake to examine the common history of the region in order to reach a basic understanding and avoid references in educational curriculums that offend the national sensibilities of either country.
Greece should accept the “Macedonian” identity and language of its northern neighbour bearing in mind that this does not imply exclusivity and does not challenge the application of the same adjective to the inhabitants of the Greek province of Macedonia.
“This is more than a bilateral dispute between Skopje and Athens. It risks derailing the main strategy of both NATO and the EU for stabilising Macedonia and the region, based on enlargement and integration”, warns Donald Steinberg, Crisis Group Deputy President.

Contacts: Andrew Stroehlein (Brussels) +32 (0) 2 541 1635
Kimberly Abbott (Washington) +1 202 785 1601
To contact Crisis Group media please click here
*Read the full Crisis Group report on our website: http://www.crisisgroup.org

[Bratot]

From the full document:

Despite considerable progress, Ohrid has not been fully implemented. Inter-ethnic tensions and a risk of instability remain. The regional environment is fragile, and the potential for Kosovo to have a destabilising influence on Macedonia, as it did in 2001, continues. An indefinite delay to NATO and EU integration could undermine what has been achieved in stabilising the country, with consequences that would be particularly harmful not least for Greece itself. The name dispute is more than a bilateral issue between Skopje and Athens. It risks derailing the main strategy of both NATO and the EU for stabilising Macedonia and the region through enlargement and integration. Member states should not allow the organisations’ credibility to fall victim to an intractable dispute involving one of their fellow members.

They are giving hiden message, a clasic treaten with activating Kosovo as potential danger in order to obey to their demands.


Another interesting part from the full version:

The nationality and language. The adjectives for nationality and language have emerged as critical since Bucharest. As Skopje has softened its stance on the country’s name, it has insisted that the nationality and language should be acknowledged at the UN as Macedonian, without qualification
The president and prime minister share this position.[1] The importance to Macedonians lies in suspicion, not unreasonable given persistent Greek assertions about the artificiality of the Macedonian nation, that behind Greece’s objections to the name lies a denial of the Macedonian nation itself. Athens triedto keep nationality and language off the agenda of the UN talks, asserting they were not part of Nimetz’s mandate.[2] It is reluctant to concede Skopje’s demands, preferring the formula “citizens of North Macedonia”, while perhaps accepting that the language could be called “Makedonski”, in Macedonian, untranslated.[3]

[3] Appearing to confirm Macedonians’ concerns about Greek non-recognition of their existence as a nation, a senior Greek official said he did not know of a “Macedonian language”, that there was Bulgarian and Greek, but Macedonian was not an “original language”. He said that, as a goodwill gesture, Athens might accept the use of “Makedonski” for the language, but the question of nationality was more difficult, and that in that case too it could not be translated. Crisis Group interview, senior Greek official, November 2008.

Are you gettin the picture???

[El Bre]

A PDF of the report in it's entirety can be found here;

http://www.crisisgroup.org/library/documents/europe/balkans/b52_macedonias_name___breaking_the_deadlock.pdf

[Risto the Great]

This is utterly offensive.
Note how it suits them to include Macedonia in all these organisations (NATO, EU) because it helps them achieve what they want for the region. This is the same shit as the Treaty of Bucharest almost 100 years earlier. Except now they are pretending to be interested in the opinions of Macedonians (as opposed to simply ignoring them).

[Risto the Great]

Skopje should avoid provocations

What a load of rubbish. Why should it, does it not deserve to be acknowledged as Macedonian and to celebrate its connections with antiquity? Why can Greece rename its airport and EVERYTHING else and not cause provocation?

Macedonians in the Republic are truly victims who will never bite the hand that pretends to feed them.

I note Gareth Evans is President & CEO of the ICG. He was responsible for negating the Macedonian identity in Australia when he was our foreign minister.

From the link:

Greece should accept the “Macedonian” identity and language of its northern neighbour bearing in mind that this does not imply exclusivity.

Tell me Gareth, who else does the Macedonian language and identity belong to?

[Risto the Great]

From the overview, this is what they want. Only a victim would accept such disgraceful measures to destroy the Macedonian identity:

In order to rebuild trust and finally resolve the name dispute, the following steps should be taken:

* Skopje should reverse its decision to rename its airport after Alexander the Great and desist from similar moves certain to provoke Athens;
* Skopje and Athens should jointly examine the common history of the region, with a view to avoiding references in their respective educational curricula that offend the other’s national sensitivities;
* both sides should reaffirm their commitment to the Interim Accord, and pending agreement on the name, Skopje should use only the provisional form “the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia” in all multilateral organisations, while Athens should drop its veto threats at NATO and the EU;
* Skopje should publicly state its readiness to accept the latest proposal of the UN mediator that “Republic of North Macedonia” be the name for all international purposes;
* Athens should respond by acknowledging the national identity and language of its northern neigh*bour as “Macedonian” and accepting Skopje’s assurance that use of that adjective does not imply any exclusivity or territorial claim over the northern Greek province of Macedonia; and
* other NATO and EU member states should actively encourage Athens to unblock Macedonia’s integration into both organisations and to respond positively to Skopje’s concessions on the country’s name.

Historical revisionism is what the ICG wants. What happens when we show them new documents, does the Macedonian identity change as we earn more "historical points"? The right to self-identification does not sit well with these idiots it would appear.

[Risto the Great]

If any Macedonian sees anything positive from this. Let me know so I can arrange for you to be immediately collared.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Renaming Skopje Airport after Alexander the Great and a number of other moves were seen by Greeks as an offensive appropriation of their Hellenic heritage and a direct provocation.

When Athens decides to stop renaming and stamping with the Macedonian sun everything from airports to salt packages to sewer drain lids to gas masks, then we will talk.

Macedonian heritage belongs to the people of Macedonia, not to Greece. The latter's actions are a direct provocation against the Macedonians and they will not go unchallenged.

The "Hellenic" heritage, pfft, that's why the Greeks begged the Romans to come to SE Europe so they can be saved from the Macedonians.

[El Bre]

It's all moot anyway. Even if Grujo and company agreed to change the name of the country to the "Republic of Macedonia is Greek (4000 years)" the Greeks would do a Jonestown before they agreed to Macedonian as the language and identity of our people. We all know it's not simply about the name of the country, it's about finishing what was started 100 years ago.

[Venom]

Guys it's exactly as you say it is. They stamp Macedonia on everything from fucking salt packets to condoms yet Skopje is provoking Athens? What about Athens provoking Skopje? Oh nah, that is okay, we created Athens.

The part about history is rich: France and Germany examining history: the two very countries who created greece decided in greece's fate? Wonderful.

Gareth Evans, noted anti-Macedonian and very pro-greek is the CEO of this?

Unless there is something I am missing entirely everyone responsible for this should be tied up by the fucking balls.

[Bratot]

They threaten us with a new crisis from Kosovo.

Isn't that absurdity, a territory which is under their control - NATO&EU, to be a factor of instability????

So who the heck is the agressor here?

Answer: NATO&EU


They openly "advice" us to agree with their demands or.. they would "not" be able to stop next "ethnic crisis" in Macedonia and the region.

I personally dont know how to react, to laugh or cry on this "NEW BRIEFING".

What kind of group they actually are?

International group of managing&provocing crisis.

[Risto the Great]

They threaten us with a new crisis from Kosovo

I saw that but I thought maybe I was reading too much into it. But you are right. Don't do what we say and we will send the Albanians from Kosovo in. This little lobby group (ICG) has motivations that we will never understand and rest assured their intentions are not as transparent as they would like anyone to believe.

The International Crisis Group was founded in 1995 by World Bank Vice-President Mark Malloch Brown, former US diplomat Morton Abramowitz and Fred Cuny, an international disaster relief specialist who disappeared in Chechnya in 1995. Their aim was to create an organisation, wholly independent from any government, to assist governments, intergovernmental bodies and the international community at large in preventing deadly conflict.

Who funds them:

http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=1151&l=1

The ubiquitous George Soros is known to fund this group. I note he does not appear on the list included on the link above.

Human Rights Watch and the International Crisis Group

Aside from the Open Society Institute (OSI), present in almost fifty countries, George Soros has created or financed several very important and prestigious associations and foundations the Human Rights Watch and the International Crisis Group.
Human Rights Watch (HRW) was one of the humanitarian organizations that submitted most of the evidences and documents against the crimes attributed to Slobodan Milosevic, thus justifying NATO intervention in Serbia. A significant part of the accusations made by this association has not yet been confirmed by the International Criminal Court for Former Yugoslavia.
The International Crisis Group (ICG) was created in 1994 as a non-governmental (NGO) diplomatic organization, headed by the US Democratic Senator George Mitchell (who, later gave his name to the Report on the Israeli-Palestinian Question). Actively working in Burundi, Nigeria and Sierra Leone (African countries) at the beginning, the ICG was getting closer to NATO on the Yugoslavian crisis. It is currently presided over by Martti Ahtisaari, the former President of Finland who pretended to be negotiating with Milosevic to prevent the war. His Administrative Council gathers the elite of NATO personalities. By his side, former national security advisors like Richard Allen and Zbigniew Brzezinski, the Kuwaiti Prince Saud Nasir Al-Sabah, the former prosecutor of the International Criminal Court for Former Yugoslavia, Louise Arbour, and former NATO Supreme Commander during the Yugoslavian War, General Wesley Clark. We also find some financial links like former President of The Philippines, Fidel Ramos, or the Russian oligarch Mijaíl Khodorkovsky, all of them members of the Carlyle Group. Likewise, some French personalities like Simone Veil, President of the Shoah Memorial, and journalist Christine Ockrent, wife of former Kosovo governor, Bernard Kouchner. In 2001, George Soros created the Democracy Coalition Project (DCP) in charge of encouraging the non-governmental forum beside the summit meetings of the Community of Democracies organized by the United States State Department.
His agency includes the most important neoliberal economists. Likewise, he created a Network Media Program that bought the archives of the Radio Free Europe (one of its former leaders, Herbert Okun, forms part of OSI management), the CIA radio station during the Cold War. Besides, he has subsidized several "independent" mass media stations like B92 radio during the Yugoslavian War and today the "free" newspapers in Iraq. He controls the Project Syndicate, a mass media agency publishing editorials on political personalities in 181 international daily papers. These authors include a great number of ICG managers, as well as the cream of neoliberal economists. [3].