Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Sure they will MK, wondering whether this Thomas tool will get the next hero award from UMD, they are hell-bent on rewarding anyone that is a threat to our sovereignty

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5611

Where, is the UMD response on the above? Link?

[Mactruth]

I think you guys are delusional to think that Macedonia overnight will end the negotiations and declare the interim accord null. I believe Macedonian politicians are trying to portray Macedonia as the obedient victim, hence why Macedonians politicians and UMD state "Greece won't accept a new name, not us" blah blah blah!

Macedonia has Turkey, Russia and other options, how do we except the world to respect us when it is obvious we don't respect ourselves. They need to goto the UN and tell them "we have 2/3 nations calling us ROM and ICJ has ruled in our favor" and if nothing happens we need to simply STOP the negotiations bcuz it would be obvious that the West will be on Greece's side through and through and international law is bullshit

[Soldier of Macedon]

I think you guys are delusional to think that Macedonia overnight will end the negotiations and declare the interim accord null.

I think you're delusional if you can't see that as an option.

I believe Macedonian politicians are trying to portray Macedonia as the obedient victim, hence why Macedonians politicians and UMD state "Greece won't accept a new name, not us" blah blah blah!

Making excuses for them? Who's delusional now? How long are we going to play 'obedient' victim?

Macedonia has Turkey, Russia and other options, how do we except the world to respect us when it is obvious we don't respect ourselves.

Who is going to respect us if we continue to negotiate and play 'obedient' victim?

.......and if nothing happens we need to simply STOP the negotiations.....

Wouldn't that be delusional, according to yourself? NOTHING HAS HAPPENED for 20 years. Macedonia should never have been in these negotiations, and needs to cease them ASAP. Why on earth are we begging for what is ours, rather than assuming it, like normal nations do?

[Makedonska_Kafana]

NOTHING HAS HAPPENED for 20 years. Macedonia should never have been in these negotiations, and needs to cease them ASAP.

Anyone, that doesn't see this as an unresolvable matter needs to step back, take a deep breath and visit a psychiatrist yesterday.

[Vangelovski]

Mactruth comes from the International Metoist School of BS, Contradiction and Rehashing Old Propaganda (IMSBSCROP).

[Mactruth]

I think you're delusional if you can't see that as an option.

Making excuses for them? Who's delusional now? How long are we going to play 'obedient' victim?

Who is going to respect us if we continue to negotiate and play 'obedient' victim?

Wouldn't that be delusional, according to yourself? NOTHING HAS HAPPENED for 20 years. Macedonia should never have been in these negotiations, and needs to cease them ASAP. Why on earth are we begging for what is ours, rather than assuming it, like normal nations do?

I never said it wasn't an option, I stated it is delusional if you guys think the Macedonian government will do it overnight... they would have done it by now don't you think?

I never stated it was an excuse, that is was it appears to be the "obedient victim". Macedonia has done all the commands America has given it: Kosovar refugees, Interim Accord, Soldiers to the Mid East... wouldn't you view that as obedient? Macedonia tries to show the West that it is willing to negotiate (hence always stating Greece will not choice a name) but Macedonia is so bent on proving it is more democratic then Greece that is forgets what happens if Greece also decides on a particular name as well. How long depends on the Macedonian politicians, you won't find the answer from me.

Soldier of Macedon who do you think respects us? The West? Australia won't even recognize Macedonia and it has one of the largest Macedonian diaspora's.

STOPing the negotiations are what the Macedonian people want, but again it is not what the Macedonian politicians are planning. We are in our situation because Macedonian politicians have fucked over the Macedonian people before by signing the Interim Accord, and I know other people may say we were forced too but even with Yugoslav and Greece blockades we still had open boarders with Bulgaria and Albania (And Turkey via Bulgaria). Macedonian politicians again fucked over the Macedonian people with the Ohrid Agreement... go to Tetovo and tell me it is not controlled by Albanians and I will laugh in your face. If the politicians have a habit of choosing idiotic paths out of a bad situation what makes you think Macedonians won't get fucked over again?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Soldier of Macedon who do you think respects us? The West? Australia won't even recognize Macedonia and it has one of the largest Macedonian diaspora's.

Really, this again? How on earth do you expect Macedonia to be recognised and respected by anybody until the Macedonian people start respecting themselves and cease voting for idiots who are negotiating their national identity, sovereignty and integrity? The price we paid for US recognition was the loss of our state integrity. If there was no US intervention in 2001, there would be no territorial division. Their plan worked. If there was no referendum against the territorial division of Macedonia in 2004, there would be no US recognition either. Again, the plan worked, the referendum had a poor turnout, and now ethnic Albanians have a level of autonomy on formerly Macedonian sovereign soil.

STOPing the negotiations are what the Macedonian people want, but again it is not what the Macedonian politicians are planning.

The Macedonian people vote for those Macedonian politicians. Some say there are no other groups or persons to vote for, they're all traitors. So doesn't that mean that some sort of collective action should be taken by the Macedonian people, rather than perpetually voting for the same traitors over and over again, be they from DPNE or SDS?

I never said it wasn't an option, I stated it is delusional if you guys think the Macedonian government will do it overnight...

If they wanted to, is there any credible reason stopping them from doing this?

[Jankovska]

You need to earn respect but to do so you need to love and respect yourself. Our politicians have never shown love or respect for Macedonia, why should we expect someone else to do so? We must stop this talks now, it's ery plain and simple. They won't do it though, not this government, not SDSM if God forbbids they come into power again because the almighty EU fills their pockets with money while the Macedonian people are being brainwashed and treated like shit.
Victims in history just get mentioned, heros are celebrated. If we carry on playing the victim we will end up being just that, a victim. You need to fight for the things in life not wait for someone to take pitty on you.

[Zarni]

When Macedonia was sent a gift in 2004 in US recognition the US did this to stop the referendum against the changes to the territorial electorate chiefly the shiptars being awarded districts were they are clearly not a majority voter from passing. It’s purpose was to stop the above referendum from succeeding weeks before the American gift the referendum was due to win but then it was squashed.

[George S.]

Macedonians must wake up to themselves by respecting themselve even more.The enemies like albanians & greeks want nothing more than a complete destruction of macedonia.Stop fucking giving in to these retard bunch of a people .Show some balls for a change.Do you really want more embarrasment in the future or do you want macedonians to be happy in their homeland.Don't give anything to these stupid people who only command 5% of the vote.

[Risto the Great]

Perhaps the UMD can send a stern letter to Thomas Countryman, the US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Eurasia. It might not get them riled up as much the Starbucks logo change, but it would be good for marketing I suppose.

But perhaps Macedonians need to seriously ask themselves if the actions of successive Macedonians governments (supported recently by their voters to the tune of 70% turnout by my rough estimates) have been working towards this capitulation for the last 16 years.

Keen political observers (like the MTO and a few forum contributors) have seen this treachery unfold over the years and have tried to change the opinion of the misguided optimists who feel the Macedonian government is to be trusted with its agenda.

The USA is simply telling Macedonia to do what the Macedonian government has already promised to do. Notice how it all came out immediately after the election. I am disgusted with DPmNE and the people that voted for them as well as SDSm.

I fear we will see ROMSKi (Republic of Macedonia Skopke "i") soon enough. Whatever it takes for fresh(er) bread on the table I suppose. Why does it have to be so embarrassing to be Macedonian nowadays people? Why are we accepting this without a whimper? No Macedonian genuinely wants a name change, yet it is absolutely inevitable in this current epoch. What will Macedonians do when this inevitability comes to pass?

[makedonin]

Obviously it will be Republic of Macedonia Shkupi ROMSKi.
Sad but true.

[julie]

It is inevitable, and when the Grk lobby in the diaspora start pressuring governments of their repsective countries to change our community names and churches to the same bullshit name, the Macedonians will realise it will be too farken late. It makes me angry, Macedonians are a pathetic serf like lot, they are obedient to their US and Grk masters who tell the dog to lie down, Macedonia lies down legs in air and waits to be patted. It sickens me that there is no fight, no spark or passion in wanting to maintain what little of fucked up partitioned Macedonia we have left, the Albanians like the dogs they are will start their annexure and we have lost everything.
UMD can shove it up their ass with their washington agendas for seats in congress, sellouts and traitors to the cause, and their apologists like country trader, woops currency trader
Misfits

[Phoenix]

It is inevitable, and when the Grk lobby in the diaspora start pressuring governments of their repsective countries to change our community names and churches to the same bullshit name, the Macedonians will realise it will be too farken late. It makes me angry, Macedonians are a pathetic serf like lot, they are obedient to their US and Grk masters who tell the dog to lie down, Macedonia lies down legs in air and waits to be patted. It sickens me that there is no fight, no spark or passion in wanting to maintain what little of fucked up partitioned Macedonia we have left, the Albanians like the dogs they are will start their annexure and we have lost everything.
UMD can shove it up their ass with their washington agendas for seats in congress, sellouts and traitors to the cause, and their apologists like country trader, woops currency traderMisfits

...lol "country trader".

Unfortunately this is the shit that happens when people foolishly believe that putting themselves in a position were they're comprimising their identity that its not going to end in tears...

[George S.]

Phoenix & julie i reckon it could be coutry traitor.With the bs that's going on he is letting down this country.
The reason for that is he wants rOM to chage her name to enter eu.