Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Pelister]

The EU will fall in the next 5 years...

Its time for people in Macedonia to wake up and realize that its up to us to build the nation, not some high credit hand outs that will ultimately indebted the country...

This is what needs to be done. They need to do it themselves. The problem is that Gruevski is doing the exact opposite - rather than build up the nation, he is breaking it down one law at a time. A recent study on the effects of the Ohrid Framework Agreement have indicated that over 70 laws have been changed (most of them under Gruevski), federalising the country, into two halves, an Albanian one and one comprised of the rest.

Honestly, if Gruevski is serious about building up the nation he could start buying land somewhere around Galichnik, and start building a Macedonian city, brick by brick, one house at a time - a place held in trust by either the Macedonian Orthodox Church, or the government. They are all too busy sucking the life blood of our history, and our sacrifices until there is nothing left.

[Onur]

I just saw this article on the web. Bulgarian president basically says that Bulgaria wont accept a new name for Macedonia with a geographical tag like "Northern" because he says that Bulgaria also have a territory called "Pirin Macedonia" in the north and the tag "Northern" might create a territorial claim issue between Bulgaria and Macedonia!!!

Parvanov Hints Bulgaria Disturbed by Compromise Name in Macedonia-Greece Dispute

Certain geographical references in the proposed compromise in the Macedonia-Greece name dispute might be unacceptable to Bulgaria, Bulgarian President Georgi Parvanov hinted in Slovenia.

"We will support every compromise name for Macedonia, but seeking a name in a geographical aspect can generate public tension in Bulgaria," Parvanov stated in Ljubljana at a joint news conference with Slovenian President Danilo Turk on Monday, as cited by Focus.

The notorious name dispute between Macedonia and Greece has been going on since the former declared independence in 1991. Greece is concerned that the recognition of Macedonia's name could allow it to have territorial claims for it since much of northern Greece is also in the geographic region of Macedonia. The dispute has led Greece to technically block Maccedonia's accession to NATO and the EU; it has been the reason that Macedonia is a member of the UN under the name "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia."

The latest suggestions by the Greek government for a compromise name of Macedonia mentioned last week by Greece's Foreign Minister Dimitris Droutsas have been "Northern Macedonia" and "Upper Macedonia."

Speaking in Ljubljana Monday, Parvanov warned that a geographically-based compromise name for the Republic of Macedonia can cause tensions in among the Bulgarian citizens, and "not so much among the institutions."

"I am giving as an example what is heard these days – compromise names such as "Northern Macedonia" or "Upper Macedonia" must be commented keeping in mind the fact that Pirin Maceodnia, which is Bulgarian territory, is also part of Northern and Upper Macedonia. What would the population of this part of Bulgaria say?" Parvanov told journalists in the Slovenian capital.

"But let our friends find a common name, we Bulgarians will find a way to express our constructive position," the Bulgarian President said reminding that Bulgaria was the first sovereign nation to recognize the independence of Macedonia, and to do so under its constitutional name.

He further noted that Macedonia no doubt had to have an European perspective, and that the sooner the name dispute is settled, the sooner its way towards the EU and NATO membership will be opened.

"Greece and Macedonia must make there choice based on the already proposed names. We must also take into account the delicate moments, which President Parvanov mentioned," Slovenia's President Danilo Turk said in turn.

June 6, 2011

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=129016

This is becoming more ridicules as the problem continues...

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Well, maybe if they rename both countries and add identifiers - the countries of "hole"

Greece - A Holes
Macedonia - B Holes

Diaspora - Glory Holes

[slovenec zrinski]

Yet another slovenian politician to be disgusted with.....this time the president..what an idiot....appalling...

[Risto the Great]

I can't believe everyone will be so supportive if Macedonia changes its name. What a wonderful world we live in (apparently).

Truth be told, I like Greece & Bulgaria arguing over this issue. Gives them something else to worry about.

[Onur]

Yet another slovenian politician to be disgusted with.....this time the president..what an idiot....appalling...

Btw, why this guy`s surname is Turk, any idea???

[makedonche]

I just saw this article on the web. Bulgarian president basically says that Bulgaria wont accept a new name for Macedonia with a geographical tag like "Northern" because he says that Bulgaria also have a territory called "Pirin Macedonia" in the north and the tag "Northern" might create a territorial claim issue between Bulgaria and Macedonia!!!




This is becoming more ridicules as the problem continues...

Onur
Thanks for this information! It does highlight how ridiculous the name dispute is. What an absolutely farcical situation it is to have 2 presidents of foreign countries debating and commenting on another country's choice of sovreignity? The Bulgarian president has put his foot in it by admitting there is a "Pirin Macedonia", the question I have for him is " Where did you it get from?" - furthermore if Bulgaria was the first to recognise Macedonia by it's self chosen name then why change opinions now? - you have already recognised the name - end of story- why enter a debate that has no substance? As for the Slovenian president - stupid people should not become presidents of countries - if he is the best they could come up with then it's time for the country to change it's name as well, from Slovenia to "Knuckleheadnia". My view is that due to exports to Greece the Slovenians will do and say whatever they are told to by the Greeks, let's see how long Slovenia plays the obedient dog when Greece finally defaults on loans and goes bankrupt - then we'll see how much return Slovenia get's on their exports- my guess is they will become less obedient fairly quickly!

[slovenec zrinski]

Well his name is Türk..not Turk The only plausible info I can find on the net is that the surname stems from people who fled into Austria from the Ottoman Empire. They became known as Türks. Much like many Hungarians with the surname Horvat...well the name really gives it away in that case as well

Well..if we are to judge the entire country by the politicians and name it thereafter..then I do not know what to call Macedonia anymore.....I mean Gligorov,Crvenkovski and for that matter Trajkovski???? And then to top it of u had a bulgar/bugaroman Georgievski as prime minister....

But I cannot understand this position taken by many Slovenian politicians. I must read some about the Slovenian export to greece to know it it really is that significant. I think it has more to do with a wish from politicians in this small country to appear significant and say the "right" things on international matters. Idiots in any case. And to top it of Slovenia will use a significant portion of its GDP to bail out greece while at the same time demanding its own population to accept a rise in the pension-age by 7-8 years (rejected in a referendum this weekend)....

[Soldier of Macedon]

The surname 'Turk' is also used by Anglo-Saxon peoples. Also, there is a placename in Finland which is spelled as 'Turku' - but that comes from the Slavonic word for 'market', which is 'Turgu'. Check this also:

http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Turk

This name, recorded as Turch and Turcus in the Domesday Book of 1086, may be either an abbreviated form of the Olde Norse given name Thurkill from 'Thor', a divine name referring to the God of Thunder, plus 'ketill', a cauldron, or a nickname from the Olde French 'Turc', meaning 'Turk' and originally given to someone who had taken part in the crusades against the Turks. The Turks were renowned for their bravery, ferocity and fighting prowess and consequently the nickname would have been regarded as a complimentary one. A Ricardus filius (son of) Turk appears in the 1205 'Charter Rolls of Kent' and a William Turc in the 1193 'Pipe Rolls of Gloucestershire'. In 1296 one, Robert Turk was recorded in the 'Subsidy Rolls of Sussex'. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Eadwin le Turch, which was dated circa 1140 'Early London Personal Names' by E. Ekwall, during the reign of King Stephen, Count of Blois, 1135 - 1154. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Turk#ixzz1OfDjIqxq

[julie]

Slovenia getting involved, how about renaming them SLothenia, this president should leave alone.
Interesting the Bulgarians shooting themselves in the foot, recognising Pirin Macedonia, will be interesting to see Greece retaliate with their arguments.
Everyone arguing over Macedonia, shades of 1913.....

[George S.]

i see a simple solution is why don't greece ,bulgaria ,albania take a hint from serbia & give back the parts they took so that they can become whole again.Then it can all be called macedonia.

[slovenec zrinski]

Interesting info SoM The explanation for Åbo/Turku is very interesting. I have actually wondered from time to time where the finns got their name for that town.

[Zarni]

i see a simple solution is why don't greece ,bulgaria ,albania take a hint from serbia & give back the parts they took so that they can become whole again.Then it can all be called macedonia.

UMD propose this.

[George S.]

Zarni the 100 years on the bucharest agreement is up in 1913.Other countries like the british gave honk kong to back the chinese when their agreement reached.How about the greeks giving back at least maybe solun if not the whole of the aegean after all it was macedonian.

[George S.]

Zarni i don't care what the umd proposes i just suggested that.You know that the treaty of bucharest agreement is up when it turns 100 in 2013.What befitting gesture for the greeks to
give back the aegean to the macedonians who are it's rightfull owners.
Like the british giving hong kong back to the chinese.There's numerous other countries that have taken lands from indigenous people from their land.They have become reconciled by the other countries giving restitution.
If one looks at the history that macedonians owned the agean area since time immemorial & it has been part of macedonia untiil 1913.The treaty is an agreement for a 100 years after that it's befitting that the party like greece hand back what it took & we can have closure on the whole thing.