Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Risto the Great]

There is practically no difference between these two parties!

Ivanov=Crvenkovski

DPMNE=SDSM

There it is.
No room for doubt.
No hidden agendas or master plans.
Just utter defeatism and complete disregard for the Macedonian identity.

[George S.]

You know that we grew to hate what sdsm stood for because we knew what they were up to but dpmne gruevski/ivanov never openly declared that they more of the same.There is no point in touching base with any present party that will really look after the macedonian interest.It's more self interst & staying in power.

[indigen]

There it is.
No room for doubt.
No hidden agendas or master plans.
Just utter defeatism and complete disregard for the Macedonian identity.

On top of what Bratot has posted to clarify, for those needing extra convincing for a variety of reasons, the points Vangelovski, amongst others, has clearly, precisely and concisely summed up, the point about ORIGIN of the CAPITULATIONIST SCHEME needs to also be acknowledged for all to know. Its origin lies, as Vangelovski has written below, with "Gligorov, Maleski, Frckovski, Bitove etc". Though I am not sure why Crvenkovski is not part of this scheme because he was PM (from about September 1992) and party leader when they tried to implement the change of name to R of M (Skopje) back in late 1992.

----------

Anyone that is even slightly politically switched on could see such statements coming from Ivanov years ago, based on the morally and ideologically corrupted views he put forward at that time. A couple of years ago he went further and started toying with the idea of a "razumen kompromis". It seems he has now blossomed completely with his suggestion that "Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)" is acceptable. Obviously he has been of this opinion privately for much longer, but its good that he has finally shown his cards publically.

Even so, the DPMNE (or is it DPSNE) fan club will find it hard to digest. They will inevitably pass it off as part the "Grand Strategy" originally developed by Gligorov, Maleski, Frckovski, Bitove etc, later inherited by Crvenkovski and Georgievski now by Gruevski, Ivanov and Milosevski. This amazing "Grand Strategy" seems to have crossed both the generational gap and political ideologies in Macedonia. Not only that, but this "Grand Strategy" has the fingerprints of traitors and self-confessed Bugaromani and Yugoslavs all over it.

Its amazing how such a "patriotic" initiative has continued for so long. Perhaps its because this "Grand Strategy" is nothing more than short-term, self-interested careerism?

Sharp, precise, concise and very well summed up!

[Vangelovski]

We can move Crvenkovski back to the Gligorov era

[Volk]

Macedonian Parties on Name

With the upcomming elections, there should be a dedicated thread outlining the policies of all political parties in regards to the 'name issue'.

VMRO-DPMNE= Republic of Macedonia (Skopje) under a referendum

SDSM = Any change including Northern Macedonia that does not 'change our identity' (how does a name change not effect identity?)

Albanian block= any change aslong as its not 'Slavic Macedonia' (atleast we can thank them for ruling that out)

Dostoinstvo= ?? Can anyone shed some light ?

Is anyone at all agaisnt a name change that is not in coalition with VMRO-DPMNE??

[George S.]

Great idea volk i'm all for it anything that is usefull prior to the election would be great.May i suggest also i'm not sure in macedonia if there is a poll done regularly to show which way the parties are going then what are the citizens reactions by a poll on different issues.

[Zarni]

We all know that the Government will use the back of the people to go to a referendum it will very dangerous precedent too

But if a referendum succeeds with a resounding No then what possible path could the Macedonian government take there will at least finally be movement

[indigen]

With the upcomming elections, there should be a dedicated thread outlining the policies of all political parties in regards to the 'name issue'.

VMRO-DPMNE= Republic of Macedonia (Skopje) under a referendum

SDSM = Any change including Northern Macedonia that does not 'change our identity' (how does a name change not effect identity?)

Albanian block= any change aslong as its not 'Slavic Macedonia' (atleast we can thank them for ruling that out)

Dostoinstvo= ?? Can anyone shed some light ?

Is anyone at all agaisnt a name change that is not in coalition with VMRO-DPMNE??

It has all been covered before (and rather recently, too) on the MTO forum but you either did not comprehend the information presented or you don't read and understand Macedonian at all, though there has also been adequate coverage in English as well. Why is this the case, Volk???

The following are some examples of prior MTO coverage on this topic:

"Makedonskite" politichari i "razgovorite za razlikite" povrzani so IMETO nashe...
...MAKEDONSKO. Ime istorisko, biblisko i pravedno nasledeno i prenesuvano od koleno na koleno od pamtivek do den deneshen.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4827

A whole dedicated information thread on the issue!!!

from 10-11-2008
It would appear he relied on nationalistic fervour to get him re-voted. He has not capitalised on the nationalistic approach in any major way since then. Is he just a USA lapdog that will get scolded if he strays from USA policy?

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=266

Read the first couple of pages of the thread topic and then go to page 16 onwards to stay on topic as the thread got diverted to off topic stuff from about page 2 to 16. You should find all the relevant info on DPMNE policy on the "name issue" there!

The both sides of the coin are identical!

1. SDSM accepted DPMNE's position to go on REFERENDUM;

2. DPMNE accepted SDSM's position on the 'compromise' name.

09.04.2005Кованицата Република Македонија - Скопје е добра основа за водење на конструктивни разговори за името, но само во делот забилатералните односи со Грција, изјави денеска претседателот Бранко Црвенковски.

http://www.a1.com.mk/vesti/default.aspx?VestID=45163

15.10.2008Црвенковски се враќа на Република Македонија (Скопје)

Претседателот Бранко Црвенковски се враќа на предлогот Република Македонија (Скопје) како замена за привремената референца Поранешна југословенска република Македонија

http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/?ItemID=8D9F674A6A58204B96F3E82F2E077D74

- Првиот стратешки интерес на Македонија е зачувување на името, а вториот влегувањето во НАТО и ЕУ. За спорот со Грција треба да се најде фер решение. Такво решение е предлогот на Нимиц пред Букурешкиот самит - референцата ФИРОМ да се заме...ни со Република Македонија (Скопје), истакна претседателот Бранко Црвенковски на трибина во Штип „Македонија, предизвици“ ( 15.10.2008година).

http://www.kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mId=37&egId=13&eventId=71978

There is practically no difference between these two parties!

Ivanov=Crvenkovski

DPMNE=SDSM

Anyone that is even slightly politically switched on could see such statements coming from Ivanov years ago, based on the morally and ideologically corrupted views he put forward at that time. A couple of years ago he went further and started toying with the idea of a "razumen kompromis". It seems he has now blossomed completely with his suggestion that "Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)" is acceptable. Obviously he has been of this opinion privately for much longer, but its good that he has finally shown his cards publically.

Even so, the DPMNE (or is it DPSNE) fan club will find it hard to digest. They will inevitably pass it off as part the "Grand Strategy" originally developed by Gligorov, Maleski, Frckovski, Bitove etc, later inherited by Crvenkovski and Georgievski now by Gruevski, Ivanov and Milosevski. This amazing "Grand Strategy" seems to have crossed both the generational gap and political ideologies in Macedonia. Not only that, but this "Grand Strategy" has the fingerprints of traitors and self-confessed Bugaromani and Yugoslavs all over it.

Its amazing how such a "patriotic" initiative has continued for so long. Perhaps its because this "Grand Strategy" is nothing more than short-term, self-interested careerism?

Sharp, precise, concise and very well summed up!

[Volk]

Indigen, I am not in the mood for your misplaced chest beating and arrogance.

The reason I created this thread was to provide readers with a easy to follow resource, you continue your thread with essays of posts and quote dating back years.

I will ask my question again,

Does anyone have any information regarding the policy over the name from Dostoinstvo?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Volk,

If Dostoinstvo were prepared to change their representative symbol, then they're prepared to accept a name change. That's my opinion.

It has all been covered before (and rather recently, too) on the MTO forum but you either did not comprehend the information presented or you don't read and understand Macedonian at all, though there has also been adequate coverage in English as well.

Your whole approach is pathetically immature, it's little wonder few people take you seriously, despite the valid content in some of your arguments. An anonymous critic (who is guilty of poor judgement himself) that lacks social skills, who would have thought it possible......

[indigen]

Volk,

If Dostoinstvo were prepared to change their representative symbol, then they're prepared to accept a name change. That's my opinion.

Actually, for someone who is supposed to be on the ball, you missed the obvious deduction that comes from the Dostoinstvo representative (Gushterov) statement (posted in the election 2011 thread) that "everything is on the table" (up for negotiation) except "language and identity". That is essentially the same position as SdSm and dPmNE and even fyrOM has summed it up in his recent post on that thread.

Your whole approach is pathetically immature, it's little wonder few people take you seriously, despite the valid content in some of your arguments. An anonymous critic (who is guilty of poor judgement himself) that lacks social skills, who would have thought it possible......

Your are entitled to your opinion and opinions are like ahs, everyone has one! Though I can't help thinking that it could be a case of the pot calling someone else black. :-))

[indigen]

[QUOTE=Volk;98455]Indigen, I am not in the mood for your misplaced chest beating and arrogance.[.quote]
It is none what you presume but rather the frustration at seeing someone not reading the information that is already there on MTO and discussed numerous times.

The reason I created this thread was to provide readers with a easy to follow resource, you continue your thread with essays of posts and quote dating back years.

Then extract the information that is already there and don't ask others to do it again for you.

I will ask my question again,
Does anyone have any information regarding the policy over the name from Dostoinstvo?

Even your deductions on the dPmNE and SdSm is not that accurate (complete), IMO. Dostoinstvo is the same position as these two, i.e. preserve "language and identity" name and all else on the negotiating table.

[George S.]

Macedonian is not Greece’s business

Macedonian is not Greece’s business



By J.S.G. Gandeto





Once again, the forefront for dissemination of the Greek version of history in Australia, the so-called Advisory Council, who are neither Macedonians nor have any clue about advising, have managed to show their ugly head by attacking Victor Friedman, a prominent and well respected academic scholar from University of Chicago, for speaking the truth about the Macedonian language.



Their attempt to denigrate and insult anyone who disagrees with their artificially created and hysterically defended mythological nation is nothing new; Greeks have a long list of "national enemies" whose views are regarded as "dangerous" to the Hellenic Republic and must, at all cost, be suppressed or eliminated. Here, without much consternation, the names of Anastasia Karakasidou who wrote/admitted that "ethnic Macedonians exist in Greece", Ernst Badian who stated that "Ancient Macedonians neither viewed themselves as Greeks nor were they viewed by the ancient Greeks as such", Eugene Borza's statement that "Ancient Macedonians were a distinct and separate people from the ancient Greeks", their own son Caragatsis who stated that "it is an illusion to think that Ancient Macedonians were Greeks" and professor Friedman's views on the Macedonian language as separate and a uniquely different than either Serbian or Bulgarian language and many more, can be mentioned as such examples.



Their xenophobic attitude towards scholars, whose knowledge and analysis of history markedly differs from their own, stems from the fact that some Greeks in general and ultra nationalist Greeks in particular, have a distorted perception of "selves". Any uncovered truths about their highly checkered past, for which they have failed to adequately "create" a timely saleable version of the historical events, presents an unbridgeable gap and is perceived as dangerously calamitous for the well-being of their nation. Perhaps, their knee- jerk reaction to anything that runs contrary to their own school-imbued and preachers-enforced education is a result of their insecurities about their own nation-building process.



When one is constantly reminded about its own nationality, when one is being measured on the values of Greekness and is being graded on perceived adherence to these nationally prescribed norms, then one is being weighed and evaluated on the retention of those "learned" parameters. Thus, the perceived or imagined erosion in the strengths of these national "pillars" triggers periodically enforced teachings and timely disciplined reminders. This, in the final analysis, reminds one of the weaknesses and the porosity of the Greek position: They have to invent national enemies in order to maintain structural cohesiveness in their artificially created state. Without such national enemies the apparent Greek unity will easily dissolve. Their historiography resembles a chameleon; it changes colors with the political winds of the time. The lies propagated for so long have finally reached the crashing end; the new lies that need to replace the original ones (whose usefulness the Greek state fully exploited for many years), need to be much more sophisticated, highly polished, firmly planted and more encompassing in order to be able to withstand much more vigorous scrutiny and do their intended job. However, creating bigger lies entails rewriting history and any attempt to redefine historical events and finagle empirical data is a treacherous business wroth with danger.



There is too much literary evidence available to be successfully manipulated and an overwhelming body of incontrovertible knowledge at public disposal that can- not possibly be overlooked. The task is monumental even for such skillful fabricators as the Greeks them- selves. The end is fast approaching and with it comes unforeseen consequences. Certainly, the rules under which the Greeks operated in the past have changed, so have the players. The truth, as a useful currency, has been devaluated to such an extent that the Greek government must now create a new divergent counterfeit currency in order to successfully steer public opinion in a new direction. Greece sees Macedonia as such a ploy where Greek passion for the "motherland", cultivated and nurtured for decades, can once more be played out and used as a political catalytic converter.



But even Macedonia is not such a sure bet anymore; there are numerous dissenting opinions within Greece itself; the ethnic Macedonians whose existence Greece openly denies, are becoming emboldened in their fight for basic human freedom. Europe is becoming much more receptive to the plight of these "unrecognized" minorities and many informed Europeans are getting frustrated with Greece's bullying tactics and irresponsible behavior. The global economy tends to deemphasize the existing borders and fosters greater openness and cooperation between nations. New archeological artifacts bring new evidence to the forefront and compel scholars to reexamine their conclusions. The spotlight is on Greece and she can choose to come out clean, grant full human rights to the ethnic Macedonians with- in her border and allow them to speak and study under their maternal tongue or hide under the veil of new lies and fabrications, alienate herself from the modern democracies in Europe and thereby sink deeper into the darkened abyss.



Greece has no right to deny the ethnic Macedonians living in Greece their basic human rights as people. Greece can not stake a claim on the name Macedonia with which she got connected to as recently as 1912 with the spoils of the Balkan Wars. Greece has no right to claim the ancient Macedonians with whom she has no connection at all. The ancient Macedonians enslaved Greece and kept it under their rule until the coming of the Romans. When Rome defeated the Macedonians, Rome liberated the Greeks. Greeks cannot claim the Ancient Macedonian greatness; literary evidence cannot support such an elusive act. Ancient Macedonian great- ness does not belong to them. Greeks should educate themselves first and foremost before passing judgment on others. Listening to the ancient Greeks can do wonders for their inflated and empty ego. The ancient Greeks left a plethora of incorruptible evidence of who was Greek and who was Macedonian in antiquity. The statements from the ancient Greeks and the ancient Macedonians speak much louder than today's Greeks convoluted interpretations and self-centered opinion. Greece's crocodile tears for Macedonia are too salty for her own palate. Greece should leave the Republic of Macedonia alone to pursue her own European integration unimpeded. Greece should not dig a grave for the Macedonians. The cultural genocide they have inflicted on the Macedonians living in Greece will never be forgotten.



The Macedonians though, will prevail with her or without her. She should focus on her own destiny as a nation and stop its irresponsible, virulent attack on anything Macedonian. Greece's position is whimsically constructed, rests on precarious constructs and cannot withstand an iota of historical scientific scrutiny. It seems that all foreigners know Greece's history except the Greeks themselves. I presume artificiality breeds insecurities and thus by implication, nervousness and fear and that is a sure sign of a thieving nation.



Instead of focusing on distorting the truth about the Republic of Macedonia they should worry about their own historiography which resembles a coat of many colors. Theirs is a history invented to serve a political purpose which eventually will succumb under the weight of its own artificially created shield. It contains too many large gaping holes for which the creators have no plausible explanations; one cannot hope to go the distance on borrowed time. Ideological platforms based on historical cover-ups and nurtured with distortions and half-truths are bound to suffer a premature and an unwanted end. Manipulating public opinion for political gains is as collusive as is treacherous, and at the end is perilously dangerous. This Australian front that propagates this kind of nonsense is nothing but "Aristotelis" in disguise whose function in Aegean Macedonia, (yes, the occupied part of Macedonia) was to spy on ethic Macedonians and suppress their ethnic aspirations. Their actions are transparent and their aim is pathetic. Their writings are venomous and lack cognitive substance. It is disgusting to see them evoke the passage written by Schlesinger: They wrote:



"Unfortunately many of the authoritative views of the American academic establishment do not follow Arthur Schlesinger advice about the purpose of history in their writings:



Schlesinger wrote:



"The purpose of history is to promote not group self-esteem, but understanding of the world and the past, dispassionate analysis, judgment and perspective, respect for diver- gent cultures and traditions, and unflinching protection for those unifying ideas of tolerance, democracy, and human rights that make free historical inquiry possible."



How pitifully hypocritical it sounds coming from a Greek group who disseminates lies, fabrications, uses malice and promotes hate. You have the audacity to quote a person who writes about respect of divergent cultures and traditions, while you and the government you write for denies the existence of the ethnic Macedonians in Greece. You who have forbade the Macedonians living in Greece to use their own mother's tongue and persecuted them for even uttering a word to their domestic animals in Macedonian. You accuse others for lack of tolerance and democracy and of human rights? Do you even know how abhorrent it sounds coming from you? I wonder where it starts. Where are the logic and the common sense? Is it your inability to comprehend the written word or is it your negligence to consider others as your equal that drives your arrogance and pomposity? If the truth were a runaway locomotive and bears straight at you, would you be able to recognize it?



Instead promoting KKK ideology, you should turn around and embrace the Republic of Macedonia. She is the only true friend you have in the region. Think again and envision what would be like for Greece if Macedonia becomes what you wished her to become; you will be surrounded by your worst nightmare. Cherish the fact that you have the ethnic Macedonians in Greece still peaceful and civilized. Extend to them what is only theirs to begin with; their human rights as citizens of Greece. After all, your house is not made of glass, is it?



I will leave you with this passage in hope that it may elicit some sobering thoughts:



Why would the ancient Greeks not agree with your lies?



Read:



“When the news of his death reached Greece, revolts against the Macedonian authority broke out everywhere. Theban exiles in Athens organized a force of patriots and besieged the Macedonian garrison in the Cadmea. In Athens itself where many had prayed for an end to Alexander; the anti Macedonian party, feeling that its prayers had been heard crowned themselves with garlands and feasted over the death of him whom they had courted as a god --singing, says Plutarch, "triumphant songs and victory, as it by their own valor they had vanquished him".



The very last sentence is terribly telling:



"Triumphant songs and victory, as it by their own valor they had vanquished him".



Well, then, would you say that Alexander was a Greek king?



Why would his loyal subjects exult and feast, singing adorned with garlands upon the news that “their" king has died?



Is there any similar example in the annals of the recorded history where a nation goes into a wild celebration upon hearing the news that their king has died?



Aren't you the only country in the world that celebrates its conqueror?



Does it make any sense to sing triumphantly when your leader, the king who would "secure the frontiers for Greece", vanquishes from the face of the earth?



Final question; How come we did not find any similar celebrations in any Macedonian cities at the time?



Memorable encounter (36):



"The Colonels, as it happened, promoted Alexander as a great Greek hero, especially to army recruits: the Greeks of the fourth century BC, to whom Alexander was a half-Macedonian, half-Epirote barbarian conqueror; would have found this metamorphosis as ironic as I did." (Peter Green Alexander of Macedon 356- 323 B.C. A Historical Biography" xv).





The Theft of a King – Who Stole Alexander

ISBN: 978-1-4327-6856-0

Publisher: Outskirts Press, Inc.



By Gandeto, J.S.G.



1. What is the book about?



The book centers on Alexander the Great and the Ancient Macedonians’ ethnicity. It elaborates topics related to the differences between the ancient Macedonians and the ancient Greeks and attempts to dispel the modern notion – one originating in the 19th century and thereafter propagated by some western authors – that ancient Macedonians “were” Greeks. Also, in the book the reader will find glimpses of today’s dispute between the Republic of Macedonia and Greece regarding the name of the Republic of Macedonia, in essence, what lies hidden behind this carefully orchestrated Greek problem with the name. Readers will have a chance to get acquainted with modern-day Balkan politics where deep-rooted historical intrigues, stereotyping and ingrained prejudices do justice for tolerance and rational thought.



The book offers glimpses into our continuous struggle to return Alexander to his rightful place - among his Macedonian kinsmen. Yes, it is a feeble voice in the dark, but a voice nevertheless, that isn't going to die any time soon. Through the topics discussed in the book, the reader will have a chance to see and understand the other side of the story. In the words of Marquez Garcia, "Our enemies have crushed many roses before but they haven't succeeded in stopping the spring from coming."



Compelling questions:

..If Alexander the Great was a Greek king, why would he dismiss his own "Greek" troops in the middle of his Asian campaign in 330 B.C.? (Arr. III.19.6-7; Plut. Al. 42.5; Diod. XVII.74.3-4; Curt. VI.2.17).



Why would Greeks in the mainland, supposedly his own people, rebel against him?



Why would the Greeks call the Lamian War a "Hellenic War" if they were fighting the Macedonians?



2. Why did you decide to write it?



My main objective was twofold: to bring to the forefront the differences between the ancient Macedonians and the ancient Greeks and to shed some light on much overlooked and, by some authors largely ignored, facts about the ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians.



I could no longer stay silent in lieu of such incontrovertible evidence left to us from the ancient chronographers that clearly distinguished and separated the ancient Macedonians from the ancient Greeks. I felt compelled to respond to the blatant and dishonest manipulation of historical evidence in order to circumvent and subvert the universally declared human rights covenants and obligations.



3. How did you get your book published?



A friend of mine suggested Outskirts Press as a reputable vehicle to reach my audience; I’m glad I did.



4. What types of readers will be interested in your book?



I would be happy if today’s younger generation gets a “whiff” of the twisted political winds in the Balkan and understand how distortions and manipulations of historical facts can be used for political gains.



5. What is special about your book? What differentiates it from other books in the same category?



What separates this book from other books in the same category is the blunt straight forward – no gloves – attitude. There is no glossing over, no need to look for clues hidden in between the lines or sugar-coating politically correct terms. If I have perceived historical distortions being sold as fact, I have described them as lies; if unsupported of evidence claims are propagated as truths, I called them fabrications; if historical injustice has been committed, I find no acceptable reason to remain silent regardless of socio-political consequences. Conscience compels me to act and stand against all social injustices.



If modern day Greeks succeed in their diplomatic offensive to convince the world that Alexander the Great and his Macedonians were actually Greeks, then such a verdict may accomplish two things: (a) prove that historical evidence can be ignored (and in this case it would be), that records can be manipulated and subverted, and (b) inflict irreparable damage to the confidence and the faith entrusted in the hands of scholars and academic institutions world wide. Such a verdict will amount to nothing less than the theft of a king. On the other hand, if justice prevails, as it should, then we may safely conclude that Alexander and his legacy would continue to rest among his Macedonians whom he considered his natural kinsmen and with whom he shared his troubles, setbacks, sufferings and pain as well as jubilation in his victories.



6. Have you published any other books? Do you plan to publish more?



Yes, I have. In 2002 I published The Ancient Macedonians – Differences between the Ancient Macedonians and the Ancient Greeks, One Golden Ray upon the Rock, a novel in 2005 and The Wolves of Trapper’s Bluff in 2007.



I most certainly will continue to write.



The book is available through most of the book stores;

http://www.outskirtspress.com/thetheftofaking

J.S.G. Gandeto was born in Lubojno, Macedonia. Educated at Ss Cyril and Methodius University of Skopje, Republic of Macedonia. He immigrated to United States and continued his studies at Wayne State University, Detroit, Michigan and Nova South-Eastern University in Fourth Lauderdale, Florida where he received his post graduate degrees. He recently completed his 29th year as an educator and has since retired and is continuing to pursue his passion in writing. In 2002 he published his first book Ancient Macedonians - Differences between Ancient Macedonians and the Ancient Greeks. In 2005 he published the romantic novels One Golden Ray upon the Rock and in 2007, The Wolves of Trappers Bluff.



In the Macedonian Language he has published the following novels: Spasa's Light in 2004, Saraf in 2009 and Rosamarina's Grave in 2010. Book of poems Muabeti in 2003, poemata Ko Jagne in 2005 and Majka -Egejka in 2009. Currently, he is preparing for publication his latest novel Folded Impressions.
From email from r stefov

[Volk]

Volk,

If Dostoinstvo were prepared to change their representative symbol, then they're prepared to accept a name change. That's my opinion.

I was under the impression that they only changed this due to them being unable to register the emblem or party symbol because of the Kutlesh sonce on it?

(Gushterov) statement (posted in the election 2011 thread) that "everything is on the table" (up for negotiation) except "language and identity"

If this is true... the words pathetic are not even close to summarize the Macedonian political landscape.

It seems greece is our best friend and worst enemy at the same time..

I wonder what the position will be in the next 10 years?

Our name and language is on the table but not our identity?

Revolting

[lavce pelagonski]

I have sent a email to Sojancho if he would like to explain to us at the MTO his party's stance and why they changed the sun, if he allows me to post his response I will.