Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[slovenec zrinski]

He is an idiot. Like most slovenian politicians. What territorial aspirations is he talking about? With this statement he puts himself in the same league as Thaler..or even worse....moron...

[slovenec zrinski]

Shall u be called "our macedonians" as an ethnicity then?

[julie]

???? WHOSE Macedonia???????
I propose anyone that is not of Macedonian origin to keep their mouths shut!!!!
'Our Kacin' can shove his proposal where the sun don't shine, Macedonia does not need any other country to rebaptize it, nor does Macedonia need Kacin to be its new godfather.

MACEDONIA MACEDONIA MACEDONIA MACEDONIA
MACEDONIA FOR THE MACEDONIANS

Macedonia was partitioned, our people have been undergoing a century of ethnic and cultural GENOCIDE and now foreigners are proposing a new name
I propose a new name for Slovenia - SLOVENLY

[julie]

Would you please answer this question - Macedonia for EU membership to the detriment of Macedonia's sovereignty and name?

There is no economic prosperity for Macedonia with EU membership. Ireland's economic status is pitiful and the cost of living is exorbitant. Countries in the EU do not have any prosperity, Greece is in default and insolvent, the drachma is worthless and Bulgaria is also being crippled financially.
Private and foreign investment within Macedonia is what will strengthen Macedonia's economy, it is not necessary to be part of the EU for them to achieve this.
Macedonia does not need to enter the EU and be held to ransom by a union that has done little to achieve economic growth with their member states, other than a reverse market.
Macedonian politicians should be encouraging foreign trade and private investment with Turkey and China, and removing the red tape for the Macedonian diaspora to be able to invest in business, and build up infrastructure to set the foundations for Macedonia to prosper.
In October 2008 we had "the global financial crises", and Macedonia, like the rest of the world has been affected by this, the EU and losing her name will not achieve anything other than a loss of sovereignty and name and be accountable for handouts which will end up lining the politicians pockets
Currency Trader, how can you justify Macedonia losing its name to enter a union that is financially drowning?

[George S.]

What a joke after eeons of time Macedonia has allways been referred as macedonia.We should have the right to self determination.No one can rename us.No one can determine the name for us.No one can force us to change our name.Our name is /was /will be macedonia get it right.

[Stojacanec]

This idiot is having a laugh at our expense. If Kacin feels like playing with himself ( a game of scrabble) then I suggest he keeps his bs suggestions to himself.

[Vangelovski]

Everyone is having a good laugh at our expense and deservedly so. Our vassal politicians are the morons that have put us in this position and the Macedonian people sit idly by...

[makedonche]

Everyone is having a good laugh at our expense and deservedly so. Our vassal politicians are the morons that have put us in this position and the Macedonian people sit idly by...

Vangelovski
...and this is exactly what many people just don't get! Thats why we have discussions and threads that go for weeks on end and countless pages and posts and opinions and heresay and BS...BS...BS... - the whole thing would come to an abrupt end when Macedonia walks into the UN and says here you go our name is Macedonia, that is what you will refer to us as - full stop!

[Currency Trader]

RtG said:

Are you in favour of fixed exchanged rates CT? Most people agree it is preferable to float rates. The benefits are obvious and immediate. The USA has gained from the lower exchange rate. The weak EU countries are effectively hamstrung because they do not have this economic policy tool to work with

I don’t favor fixed exchange rate – But floating rates does NOT solve the underlying issue for a country that needs to grow for the long run. Making the case that floating exchanges will solve long term growth for structurally weak and non-competitive countries is just plain ignorant.

The long term growth rate for U.S does not rely on a weak US dollar, period – The fundamental factor for growth has been capital investments and domestic consumption which together accounts for more than 80% of the growth. Manipulating the currency has never been a growth factor for U.S.

You talk about weak EU countries being hamstrung by not having the ability to manipulate the currency because they are tied to the floating EUR – I repeat; countries that rely on the ability to devalue or manipulate their exchange rate for the sake of economic growth are structurally weak in the first place. Domestic consumption is not as strong as it should be, or domestic competition is poor relative to other nations.

Secondly, what you don’t seem to understand, is that if the exchange rate is of concern, they don't have to adopt it. Some countries have chosen not to use EUR but still be part of EU.


********************

RtG said:

The debt will increase, there is absolutely no doubt. Bulgaria is a decent example. Debt will triple. If it doesn't, the benefits you espouse won't happen

You’re avoiding the questions.

I’ll repeat:

How much is the EU debt for Macedonia?

What kind of debt are you referring to?

For what specific reasons will the foreign debt triple?

And how did you arrive to a” tripling” of debt - Do you have an economic model?

Every country has some form of debt on their national balance sheets, so WHY should Macedonia not have any debt, even if the debt is in EUR?

I’ve note that people in this thread really like to use Bulgaria as some kind of example.

Tell me more about Bulgaria’s debt - what kind of debt is there, and HOW has this debt hampered their growth rate in the last 5-10 years?

Show me an econometric model that has put a dent on their growth due to their debt, can you do that?


**************

RtG said:

New members LIKE MACEDONIA have zero political maturity, zero governance of institutions etc etc ... put ZERO in front of all of the above things EXCEPT for taxation.

Bulgarians, Greeks and anti-Macedonians would resort to such extreme comments. Saying that Macedonia has zero governance on ALL of its institutions (except taxation).

If this was a fact, Macedonia would not receive top-grades for development among Balkan states when receiving the Schengen visa-free travel. Secondly, EU commission would not forward a recommendation for EU negotiations. Stick to facts instead of extreme and sweeping comments.


***************

RtG said:

Prove to me that trade will improve by more if Macedonia joins the EU.

I’d say that Macedonia’s exports will improve compared to prior years. Simply because they will have direct access to a huge EU market. It will be easier to export and cheaper to import goods because companies do not have to pay duties on goods it exports and less administration on the import and export procedures.
Moreover, being in EU, Macedonia will be less anonymous than staying outside. This too can be a factor for growth.


*************

RtG said:

I like Bulgaria

Anybody can post a chart, but what do you actually UNDERSTAND from the Bulgarian chart that you like?


*************

RtG said

It does not have to follow the same labour laws and it has flexibility that will not exist when it is subjected to the same regulations as all of the other EU countries.

Which labour laws would make Macedonia less competitive if they were to join EU?

Which EU regulations would make Macedonia less flexible that you are referring to?


*************

RtG said

It would have immediately been reflected in a currency downfall. The EU buffer would not have propped up its lies for so long.

So you are saying that Greece’s negligence would not have happen eventually because it would immediately have been reflected in a currency downfall – That’s a simplistic argument, but not realistic.
A currency sell-off would need to be based on some information coming to light. And in order for that to happen, someone would have to disclose some very important information concerning, for example, Greece’s debt structures - Greece had made some complex debt structures thru swaps deals with foreign banks.

These deals were supposedly not known to EU and therefore Greece could go on with it for some years without currency or debt markets knowing anything about it. Information can be hidden for a long time. And even if EU knew about it, the information did not reach currency markets for some years. So don’t expect that the negligence of a country will “immediately” be reflected in a currency downfall.

As for your argument of EU buffer to prop up Greece’s lies for so long, sure, EU supervision and enforcement of national accounting standards has been a disaster.

**************
RtG said:

The EU is EXTREMELY optimistic about it what it can do to Macedonia.

Are they – in what way is EU extremely optimistic about Macedonia?



****************

RtG said:

You did not address the actual EU resolutions at all. You should

As I said, just because one supports EU entry, it doesn’t mean you have to support all resolutions. For logical reasons, there are good and there are bad resolutions. Just like in any other country, including yours. Each and every resolution will have to be judged independently and objectively.


********

RtG said:

But take a look at Bulgaria if you want a pretty picture of the magic that the EU creates.

Again, can you show me specifically WHAT it is that you have a hang-up on Bulgaria for being in EU?



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[George S.]

ct a lot of countries don't want membership because of sovereignity issues.THe benefits of
the eu are far less outweigh the huge expolitatation that takes place after.In reality what macedonia wants is the handouts that go with it & there is a price to pay.You look at the economies of greece ,spain,Ireland more is to follow.In my view they had good intentions when they set the eu up but that's not enough.

[Currency Trader]

Julie said:

There is no economic prosperity for Macedonia with EU membership.

Based on what facts?


*******************

Ireland's economic status is pitiful and the cost of living is exorbitant.

After multi-year rapid growth expansion, perhaps the longest in EU between 1997-2007, Ireland is experiencing a sharp recession. If you know anything about economic cycles, a ten-year expansion is quite an accomplishment. And during this enormous expansion some sectors developed a bubble, which has become a “norm” these days. Having said that, Ireland will eventually bounce back.


************

Countries in the EU do not have any prosperity

Faulty claim without any facts.


**************

Greece is in default and insolvent, the drachma is worthless

I didn’t know Greece used Drachma.

When did they reinstate the Drachma?

While Greece is in terrible shape, they are likely to get the support needed to get thru this.


***************

Bulgaria is also being crippled financially.

Quantify the meaning of “crippled financially”?

What metrics are you using?


*************

Currency Trader, how can you justify Macedonia losing its name to enter a union that is financially drowning?

Where have I said that Macedonia should lose its name?

While EU has debt issues on hand, they will eventually get thru this with fiscal discipline. Besides, EU is not the only region with debt on its balance sheet.




--

[Soldier of Macedon]

Where have I said that Macedonia should lose its name?

Do you think that EU membership is a realistic option if Macedonia doesn't change its name?

[Frank]

Currency Trader are you a column chair Economist or will you shock the Macedonian populace by giving them a wake up notice that they will be nostalgic about how life was outside of the EU fold once they cant afford kissing their own arses after they no longer are Macedonian but anything Sofia and Athens wants

Oh and thanks for lifting my ban SOM and not announcing my removal to forum members

[Soldier of Macedon]

Oh and thanks for lifting my ban SOM and not announcing my removal to forum members

I didn't lift your ban, it was a temporary one that lasted for a week. And I did announce your banning to others, in addition to informing you of the consequences should you decide to descend into a state of foul-mouthed stupidity once more, see post #36:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4697&page=4

[Onur]

SOM, you might add this question too;

Do you think that EU membership is a realistic option "EVEN" if Macedonia would change its name?

Who can give you the guarantee that Greece/Cyprus, Bulgaria or France wouldn't block your membership negotiation process by bringing new set of demands on the table or by inventing some stupid reason???