Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Bill77]

What about the stupid Macedonians that:

• Voted for the ruling coalition.
• Voted for the opposition party who clearly has been ready to capitulate from inception.
• Didn't vote because they did not want to encourage any politicians.

What about those that don't protest in front of parliament better yet, infront of their private homes. Why don't they spread a bit of fear in them?

This is how ridiculous the political situation is,

SDSM and supporters often call for snap elections because we have yet come to a conclusion with greece in order to enter EU/Nato.

VMRO shit them selves and claim they are working on sorting the dispute where we can enter the EU/Nato. But blame Greece for causing the delays because they are unreasonable, but persist in negotiation.

Can people see how ridiculous this political situation is? I would understand if snap elections are called and they debate about policies such as health system or public transport, But i am flabbergasted that not caving to Greece is a subject, and by not caving in, is looked at as something evil and portrayed as not worthy to govern.

The whole Political mentality needs to change in that country (where negotiations are perceived as the evil) and no one is putting the fear into these politicians.

People around the world lie in front of bull dozers for the sake of a tree. Our identity is on line here and people barely move a muscle.
I just don't get it.

[George S.]

I think it's the macedonian psyche like what else could they do to us mentality.In the face of disaster going on oblivious asto what's happening.Losing all sense of reality & not acting in rhe way one would ecpect.It is one mess of madness as each person is going about their business.

[George S.]

I forgot to mention how about in the past that the individual under communism has to shut up & not express themselves or they get shot or jail.The new democracy i don't think people have come to terms with it.Herin the problems the macedonian people cannot think for themselves call it helplessness as if in a vaccuum.I'ts all sounds crazy like a dream but its true.

[fyrOM]

More noises in the wrong direction.

Tim Judah - A possible deal is Skopje - Athens

http://www.vest.com.mk/?ItemID=E84CF9E9223D684FA5EAC56DEFD017AB

Possibly a pleasant surprise this year in the Balkans could be agreement between Skopje and Athens to the dispute over the constitutional name of Macedonia, which is an issue that, according to the findings of the British analyst Tim Judah, is achieved big progress in talks between the two sides under the auspices of ON.Za British analyst greatest potential danger in the Balkans in 2011 is Kosovo. If Kosovo continue to lag or other countries begin to distance themselves from the new Kosovo government, over allegations of electoral fraud and accusations of March that Hashim Thaci traded in human organs, it could have far-reaching and unpredictable consequences, explained to BBC Judah Sign.

[Volk]

Volk
That may be true, but have you noticed the terminology has altered, the times lines are closer together between announcement and proposed meeting?

time lines have come and gone, NATO, EU... There is only short term benefit to be gained by joining either and I think the government has realised this.

Macedonia has been saying yes we want a solution (ofcourse we do, but obviously there is no solution only suicide) to the EU and at the same time been signaling strongly we looking the east, through meetings and joining alternative international organisations. Gruevski even met Mugabe, the Syrian President if I remember correctly and our effort has increased on developing stronger links with Russia, China and Israel.

But this latest announcement has sent shivers down my spine.

After 20 years of announcements I am a little less alarmist particularly during this climate where the future of the EU is not as certain as some people once thought. This is the only carrot in front of us and it is getting quite stale.

What would be funny, if it wasn't so sad, is your complete disregard for all the capitulations to date and your focus on the one that has not yet happened regardless of the evidence that it is extremely likely.

What disregard is that? Did I ever support any of the previous capitulations? NO and by saying that I did further cements my opinion of you, an opinion that a lot of members seem to be sharing these days through your attitude, disrespect and lies.

The only way a see a name change occurring is if greece recognizes the Macedonian nation and I cannot see this happening, unless on a side note we declare we are slavs and have no connection to the ancient Macedonians

[Vangelovski]

What disregard is that? Did I ever support any of the previous capitulations? NO and by saying that I did further cements my opinion of you, an opinion that a lot of members seem to be sharing these days through your attitude, disrespect and lies.

The only way a see a name change occurring is if greece recognizes the Macedonian nation and I cannot see this happening, unless on a side note we declare we are slavs and have no connection to the ancient Macedonians

Volk, do you understand the difference between disregarding something and supporting something? Have a think about the difference in meaning and then reread my post with that in mind.

[Risto the Great]

The only way a see a name change occurring is if greece recognizes the Macedonian nation and I cannot see this happening, unless on a side note we declare we are slavs and have no connection to the ancient Macedonians

Greece recognises the Macedonian nation. It just does not want to call us Macedonians.

[makedonche]

Volk

time lines have come and gone, NATO, EU... There is only short term benefit to be gained by joining either and I think the government has realised this.

Macedonia has been saying yes we want a solution (ofcourse we do, but obviously there is no solution only suicide) to the EU and at the same time been signaling strongly we looking the east, through meetings and joining alternative international organisations. Gruevski even met Mugabe, the Syrian President if I remember correctly and our effort has increased on developing stronger links with Russia, China and Israel.

My point relates more to the "devil being in the detail", as you say thers's been time lines and announcements and plenty of bullshit that have come and gone, I notice more recently the time lines are beginning to narrow, the pressure intensifying and the EU's agenda taking on more urgent status with pressure on the Euro - they need more member states in order to lessen their financial burdens and spread the problems wider/thinner to make them more manageable. I also notice that Macedonia is already spending EU money on several large projects - the bait appears to have been swallowed.
I think it's a good thing that ROM is creating stronger links with Turkey/Russia/China - in fact I remember commenting as soon as EU/NATO/US declined our membership applications I advocated an immediate shift in commerce/ trading/ ties with these countries (as long as they recognised us as Macedonia or ROM) and tell the others to take a flying leap!
I also noticed the type of terminology used previously regarding "willingness to negotiate" has shifted somewhat and appears to me to be more solution based as opposed to just negotiating.

[Akzion]

Greece recognises the Macedonian nation. It just does not want to call us Macedonians.

That's not fully correct. Actually, we neither recognise a (separate) Macedonian nation (ancient or modern) nor identify it with you.

[Soldier of Macedon]

That's no suprise, you also think you can identify with the ancient Hellenes unconditionally, so there are plenty of 'mental' issues you need to sort out.

[Phoenix]

That's not fully correct. Actually, we neither recognise a (separate) Macedonian nation (ancient or modern) nor identify it with you.

Why not?

I assume its because you feel 'Macedonian' yourself, or so we are lead to believe...

I wonder if you have the honesty and self respect to tell us when you developed these strong beliefs in your own identity as a 'Macedonian'...

From my experiences here in australia I'm aware that no greek ever considered himself 'Macedonian'...the very word was treated with total disdain, that was until the late 1980's and early 1990's which coincided with the growing independence movements in the former Yugoslavia and the powerful push to this end by Macedonians in the diaspora...

From that moment onwards things changed quite dramitically for the 'greeks' and their new found identity as 'Macedonians'...

[George S.]

phoenix the greeks are trying to countereact to macedonia.Those people that are greek over the border hardly ever mentioned that they were also macedonian now they do.

[fyrOM]

Why not?

I assume its because you feel 'Macedonian' yourself, or so we are lead to believe...

I wonder if you have the honesty and self respect to tell us when you developed these strong beliefs in your own identity as a 'Macedonian'...

From my experiences here in australia I'm aware that no greek ever considered himself 'Macedonian'...the very word was treated with total disdain, that was until the late 1980's and early 1990's which coincided with the growing independence movements in the former Yugoslavia and the powerful push to this end by Macedonians in the diaspora...

From that moment onwards things changed quite dramitically for the 'greeks' and their new found identity as 'Macedonians'...

It was in 1988 the Greeks started labelling everything Macedonian. I remember the news report on TV well. Prior to this they called it province of Northern Greece. From no pride at all in the word Macedonian to labelling everything eg from road signs to canned goods is a dramatic shift and very noticeable they just hope a long enough time will go by that nobody remembers and they can then say they have always ie for 4000 years called it Macedonia.

[Makedonetz]

Akzion or i should say Thessaloniki

Macedonia was never yours acient or present the only thing you greeks steal is our culture and claim it was yours. Your not even a greek you Vlach! why dont your country go and reaserch who you really are before you take ours.

If Macedonia was yours and claim it to be your northern prefixure then why the hell doesnt one single greek who lives there understand macedonian if we speak this language to them. They look at you with a dumb look on their faces. and spare us well "there are macedonians who speak both BS".

[Stojacanec]

That's not fully correct. Actually, we neither recognise a (separate) Macedonian nation (ancient or modern) nor identify it with you.

Who is "we" Akzion? Can you please define who we is?

I have a hard time trying to reconcile this thought process. Mainly because there are so many Macedonians that have escaped/fled/emigrated out of Aeg Macedonia.

Their perception of what Macedonia is (both ancient and modern) is poles apart from your comment above.

I had one greek put it down to (sic) "they where all brainwashed" by the tito govenment. Even though many never went to the Rep of Macedonia.

If Macedonia was 4000 Greek (cough) how can they be brainwashed over a few years?