Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[fyrOM]

The first one is that we will jointly preserve the European perspective for the region says Spindelegger, who earlier met with Macedonian FM Milososki.

With respect to the name row between Macedonia and Greece, FM Spindelegger says that no proposal will be made, because "there are structures established to discuss it."

"There is no lack of proposals, only political will is lacking this issue to be finally removed from the agenda. This is what we demand from both...go die australia...parties, because finally without a solution, Macedonia's progress towards EU is hampered. All proposals are being discussed for so long and I think that a solution should be finally reached," the Austrian FM notes. ba/fd/17:00[/FONT]

How long will we poke the dead horse with a stick...how much will the people in Macedonia take before they say enough is enough?

Says it all. Keep dreaming Milososki. Macedonia thinks they have right on their side…and they do…and hence should prevail but not with people who don’t care if you are right or not…their pocket being full is more right than any principle rights you have. Milk it for another year if you can then run. You are never going to win flogging that dead horse.

[Makedonetz]

Their focus should be reuniting the broken ties we suffered and the reunification of Macedonia North to South West & East and human rights for our familys.

[Frank]

Learn to be brave Macedonia and standup

[Soldier of Macedon]

And last but not least we do not have a puppet Macedonian diaspora but individuals who work for the interests of others.

PP,

Please clarify what you mean by the above.

[makedonche]

PP,

Please clarify what you mean by the above.

PP
Yes - please clarify!

[protivpropaganda]

Sorry for the delay in the reply I had other engagements.

protiv propaganda its heartening to hear that there is a collective consciousness in the macedonian identity . How can the diaspora help ?

That is why I am on this forum. To find out how the Diaspora can help.
It is obvious that there is something wrong in the communication between the Fatherland and the Diaspora.

Just giving money as help or charity didn't do the job. It just helped deepen the devide. Why? I have some theories but very little evidence to justify them. At this time I can only speculate on the matter which I am hesitant to do.

Our self awareness today compared to that of the time of our independence is very favourable but we are not out of the water yet, problems still persist and new ones are being constantly created.

Soldier of Macedon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protivpropaganda
And last but not least we do not have a puppet Macedonian diaspora but individuals who work for the interests of others.

PP,

Please clarify what you mean by the above.

Please state your question with more precision and clarity because I see no reason to clarify the quoted sentence as its meaning is self evident.


P.S.
My nick is Protivpropaganda. I see the unauthorised abbreviation of my nick as a sign of disrespect from people who I do not know or had the pleasure of communication with in the past.

We are Macedonians. We do not change people's names without their consent unless we have a wish to insult or belittle them.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

MK what's your connection with the makedonska kafana website??

Owner of the website

YouTube - Makedonska Kafana

[Soldier of Macedon]

Please state your question with more precision and clarity because I see no reason to clarify the quoted sentence as its meaning is self evident.

You wrote the following:

And last but not least we do not have a puppet Macedonian diaspora but individuals who work for the interests of others.

I see a reason to clarify, that is why I asked you. What is a puppet Diaspora? Who is working for the interests of others?

My nick is Protivpropaganda. I see the unauthorised abbreviation of my nick as a sign of disrespect from people who I do not know or had the pleasure of communication with in the past.

We are Macedonians. We do not change people's names without their consent unless we have a wish to insult or belittle them.

Oh please, spare me the drama scene, PP is an acronym like RoM is for Republic of Macedonia, like SoM is for Soldier of Macedon. There was no disrespect or insult intended, you know that already, so stop behaving like a 5 year old.

[Risto the Great]

Has the Interim Accord been rejected in the hearts and minds of the Macedonian people

Has the Interim Accord been rejected in the hearts and minds of the Macedonian people?

A reasonable question in my opinion and worthy of discussion. We have looked at the Interim Accord in the past and realise how degrading it was and continues to be for Macedonians. If we (briefly) set aside any discussions about purported legalities of this "agreement", I am concerned that Macedonians accept it as a necessary fact of life that individual Macedonians (and as a collective) are condemned to suffer with for eternity.

[fyrOM]

The Albanians took up arms when no one was shooting or killing them.
With the Albanians facing defeat the usa threatened to bomb RoM to stop and then introduced the Framework Agreement.
Anyone would call being threatened to be bombed duress.
Any court recognises anything signed under duress as invalid.
The Framework Agreement is therefore invalid.
Having started as a result of Albanians taking up arms when no one was killing them one can only liken it to an armed robber taking goods from a store at gun point and then the police pointing a gun at the store owner for drawing his gun and expecting the store owner to sign over ownership of the goods.
Its that simple.

[indigen]

With the Albanians facing defeat the usa threatened to bomb RoM to stop and then introduced the Framework Agreement.

I don't think this is correct. What is the evidence for this?

Anyone would call being threatened to be bombed duress.

"Our" politicians were more than willing on a few other key occasions to sell us and our national interests out for their own political and material benefit and they did not need much or any duress to sign away the title deeds to our country.

Any court recognises anything signed under duress as invalid.
The Framework Agreement is therefore invalid.

That and the fact the people did not have a say in the matter. The "duress" issues has been raised by eminent opponents of the FA and they cite that it is ILLEGAL to make changes to the Constitution whilst in a state of siege from armed aggression.

OM, be that as it may, this thread topic IS about the Interim Accord, which has been extensively debated in the recent past here on MTO, and we should stick to that for now as it is what forces Macedonia to "negotiate" over its name and that of the identity of the Macedonian national and ethnic entity.

Secondly, one should keep in mind that an overwhelming number of MTO members support/supported the "end the name negotiations" call by a number of organisations and individuals and this is a general feeling amongst Diaspora Macedonians and many inside Macedonia as well. What some (Interim) Accord supporters did is to jump on the bandwagon in order not to isolate themselves politically but in fact they are OPPOSED to the call and there is a need to identify those and to let them come clean on where they stand. IMO, Bratot is one of those, as I have continually pointed out in the last six months or so!

[Pelister]

I think that most Macedonians don't know whats in it, or have no idea what the Terms in that Accord are, what it was in fact that the Macedonians signed, and the effects or results of that Accord on our soveriegnty.

[Vangelovski]

Has the Interim Accord been rejected in the hearts and minds of the Macedonian people?

In order to reject oppression, one must be aware that they are being oppressed and then realise that they do not need to be oppressed. One needs to understand liberty and crave after it. Judging from their views and actions, the majority of Macedonians worldwide do not undertand liberty, let alone crave it.

[Bratot]

Do you think of ceasing the negotiations as a means, or ceasing of the negotiations as a goal?

[Vangelovski]

Do you think of ceasing the negotiations as a means, or ceasing of the negotiations as a goal?

I think this says it all. Bratot, you either don't understand what you're arguing about or you have some other motives.

Negotiating our identity is a violation of our natural rights. Ending this violation is an end in itself. You seem to think this is some sort of "game" where the negotiations are a "tactic" to achieve some "greater end". National self-determination is the Macedonian cause. The FREEDOM of the Macedonian people to FREELY make their own decisions is the Macedonian cause. The negotiations are in direct contradiction to this cause - ending them is not a "means", its an act of exercising our FREEDOM.