Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Pelister]

Me too.

I can't believe one man can cause so much trouble.

[drle]

Greece will define the minority, as surely as the RoM will change its name.
Its a natural and logical conclusion to the current situation.
Greece is a modern European democracy and will honour all of its responsibilities. How can Greece not recognise the minority if they have a clear and accurate name by which o identify them with.
The status quo with the RoM is what is currently stifling the ability of Greece to deliver.
The procrastination from the RoM government on the name issue is clearly evident and is ultimately penalising the minority group.

In a Greek wet dream, and the RoM's nightmare, the name will revert back to Vardarska, but we know that is not an option.
As soon as the name is changed, Greece will be in a position to differentiate the Greek Macedonians from the North Macedonians.

You're really living in a fantasy world RH....you and your macedoniaontheweb buddies.

The majority of you are Pontians that invaded an area 85-90 years ago. You are not Macedonian. You are gloryfying something that is not even yours. Like the song goes "So chuzhki tsar se radvale." You could not have told me that your original roots if you are a Pontian came from Aegean Macedonia? Get that thru your thick skull.

My parents and grandparents are from Lerin. My father could not even speak Greek until the age of 6. He was brought up as an ordinary "Macedonian" child during a time when teachers used to cain you for speaking Macedonian, which the Greeks considered to be an idiom. Now RH are you gonna tell me that's a form of democracy?

I'll tell you now even if RoM do manage to have the rights of the Aegean Macedonians granted, we will not see a dramatic change. Like it or not the citizens will still have that fear standing behind them. Its unfortunate but its true.

[Risto the Great]

Obama and McCain advisors on Macedonia and Greece

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/3829/46/

The name issue and talks between Macedonia and Greece under UN mediation were one of the topics at the conference New Allies and the New US Administration: Priorities for Central and Eastern Europe – US Relations, which took place at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, Voice of America in Macedonian language reported.

Senior Foreign Policy Advisors to presidential candidates, the Senators John McCain and Barack Obama, presented their positions announcing that the US will continue its engagement in the Balkans.

Kori Schake, Senior Foreign Policy Advisor to Senator John McCain, said that NATO enlargement has no alternative and it is sad that Greece blocked the admission of Macedonia in the Alliance.

- It is sad that Greece blocked Macedonia’s admission in NATO. I think that it will be good friend and ally to the US. Helping in stabilising a country, which made wise decisions in the past 10 years, is in our interest the country to become member of the Alliance. My personal position is that Greece should outdo itself, Kori Schake said.

Philip Gordon, Senior Foreign Policy Advisor to Senator Barack Obama, reminded that the Senator for Illinois supports the NATO enlargement process and announced that US will still be engaged in the Balkans.

According to Gordon, the US should not take side in Macedonian – Greek name dispute.

- Mutually acceptable solution for the name for two parties should be reached. It is not good the US to urge for one of the parties in the process, which could reflect in larger instability, instead in stability in the region, Gordon said.

[Risto the Great]

Perhaps the "wind of change" that Traveller was talking about was merely a wishful little fart.

[Traveller]

Biden and Obama have signed even the most hostile resolutions against your country. BUT we can gain more during the Bush administration. If he is so eager to get you in NATO he should listen us more in the matters of ethnicity and language(since i believe that the name issue is already solved). IF he wants to get you in NATO he has to give us more AS THE GREEK NEGOTIATORS HAVE BLATANTLY TOLD HIM.

[Risto the Great]

Seriously, why should Greeks be listened to in matters of ethnicity and language. They are hardly experts in the matter.

I am glad you believe the name issue is already solved. You might get a surprise.

The Greeks run the risk of irrelevance as their demands already seem petty to outsiders. Soon they will be mocked publicly for their petulance. Lick your finger and check the wind direction.

[Traveller]

Seriously, why should Greeks be listened to in matters of ethnicity and language. They are hardly experts in the matter.

I am glad you believe the name issue is already solved. You might get a surprise.

The Greeks run the risk of irrelevance as their demands already seem petty to outsiders. Soon they will be mocked publicly for their petulance. Lick your finger and check the wind direction.

Yesterday, Schaeffer (=NATO) told you "it is hard for you , but if you want to join NATO and EU you have to change the name". It is so simple. Do you want to join NATO or EU? If you say yes , you know what to do. If you say no under this "blackmail" poverty and civil unrest will dismantle your country. This is Greece's AND NATO plus EU view.

[Rogi]

On what basis do you conclude that poverty and civil unrest will dismantle the Republic of Macedonia. There are no indicators whatsoever for such an outcome.

[Pelister]

Yesterday, Schaeffer (=NATO) told you "it is hard for you , but if you want to join NATO and EU you have to change the name". It is so simple. Do you want to join NATO or EU? If you say yes , you know what to do. If you say no under this "blackmail" poverty and civil unrest will dismantle your country. This is Greece's AND NATO plus EU view.

If what you say is true, then blackmail is the course of the day.

What can the Macedonians learn from this? The strong suggestion coming from NATO and obviously the E.U is that Macedonian soveriegnty, identity and human rights, are simply not respected, nor are they recognized.

The Greek lie, and lobby group has been working hard to convice other E.U members, that Macedonians do not exist - that anyone calling himself a Macedonia - is an insult to the Greek nation, and to the Greek heritage, and the E.U and NOW NATO believe it. Tell a lie long enough, and people start believing it.

The Macedonians can learn from this.

Pursue strong bilateral relations, especially economic, military and political with friends i.e, Turkey, Ukraine...etc

It should end the "negotiations" on the grounds that Greece wants to wipe out its identity, history, culture, heritage.

Only the truth will set them free. Now given the climate, there are going to be people out there who support the Greek lie, regardless of what the Macedonians say or do.

Make a Statement, that the Greek State has been Hellenizing a part of Macedonia, and that the Macedonians, were historically, never Greeks ! This needs to be said.

Greece is fighting this on historical grounds; expose that, and you expose everything.

Find friends in the U.S, Turkey ... and others who respect and recognize the Macedonians.

[Pelister]

Greece will define "everything" as it defines itself.

It wants to be the author of every individual, every event, every group, every identity in that region; as though it has the only and all supreme power to write the history of the region, which it has enjoyed for the better part of 150 years.

Now the Macedonians have come along, to shake up the Greek monopoly on history.

The Greeks, on the other hand, don't want to give it up. They still want to be the authors and Godfather, of everything and everyone in the region.

The Greeks have had enormous power, the kind of power every colonial overlord enjoys over his beaten and vanquished foes; and they are not about to give this up.

A Macedonian State north of the border, is a HUGE fkn threat to little old Greece, because the Greeks bit off a bit more than they could chew in 1912. I figure they'd been stealing other peoples lands, homes and villages for so long (with the blessing and aid of Europe), sooner or later, it would bite back.

I used to think that the threat was to the Lies of Greece, i.e., the Greek Nationality...ETC.

That may be true, but its incidental. I realise now that the Greeks are afraid of losing Macedonia - the kind of fear being generated by the Greek state toward the tiny Macedonian Republic can only come from a view that they (the Greeks) never once genuine believed Macedonia actually belonged to them. 19th century Greek historians didn't think Macedonia was a part of Greece. Greece only renames its most Northern Province to 'Macedonia' in 1989 !

[Pelister]

Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/3852/45/

Is Greece planning to veto Macedonia's bid to join the E.U ?

Isn't this a way for the E.U to deflect its racist stance against the Macedonians ?

[Risto the Great]

I hope Greece vetoes and does it defiantly.
The more of a fuss they raise about it, the more interest the issue will generate... the more people will be interested in the situation. The absurdity of their arguments will then come to the fore.

[Pelister]

I'm more concerned about what effect a Greek veto will have on the Macedonian government.

I would feel better if I thought the government was very clear in its principals, regarding its soveriegnty, its rights and nationality...and so on and so forth.

I think Crvenko has the government rattled a bit. I think he is portraying himself as the voice of the E.U, and is undermining the government at every turn.

What can Macedonia do?

My suggestion to Gruevski would be to make some very clear statements about Greece's intentions, which need to be said. Greece's intentions have been implied, or suggested, but never made openly public in the E.U.

The Macedonians could say "Greece wants the native Macedonians wiped out" ...

If the Macedonians do nothing, Greece couldn't be more provoked than it is now, so I say spill the beans ... the Macedonians should be defending their rights, history, identity ... and be damned what the fkn Greeks do.

[Rogi]

Macedonia needs to make its own threatening statements now.

Greece is 'threatening' to Veto Macedonia's EU bid. We all know very well that Greece WILL use that veto, without doubt.

Macedonia needs to make a counter-threat, along the lines of 'If Greece does Veto and ONCE AGAIN breaches the terms of the Interim Agreement, proving it is unable to abide by the Interim Accord, then said breached accord is useless and serves no purpose, and thus Macedonia will have no choice but to end negotiations based on the accord and proceed with a UN Declaration and subsequent UN vote, based on its Right to self-determination'.

That way, it's clear:
If they do this, we do that.
If they don't, then we wont. (well... yet, anyway).

Macedonia just needs to keep making that statement, day-in, day-out, the way the Greeks were repeating 'veto, veto, veto' in the days and weeks leading up to the NATO summit. It gives everyone (else in the world) enough time to re-adjust positions and be prepared for the Greek veto and Macedonia's consequential withdrawal from the Interim Agreement... if you don't lay the groundwork for the withdrawal of the Interim Accord, then you can't just do it in a big surprise and catch the big players off guard. It means with this counter-threat, which we repeat, repeat and repeat, and take serious, it will mean all the pressure goes on Greece to step down from their position of Veto and allow us into the EU with the interim name, or else create a permanent stagnation against EU and NATO interests.

[osiris]

the greek veto is a type of cold war, and i agree with rogi it must be challenged by the macedonian government.