Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[George S.]

We shouldn't be apologetic about who we are & we should not accept anything less than what we are we are macedonians & that we will stay.They need to realise that we are happy who we are,we have allways been macedonian & allways will be.We will not relinquish our god given identity to a bunch of fakes like the greeks.Our identity is ours & ours only the sooner they ralise this then they have to give due curtesy & start recognizing us. macedonians

[Onur]

i think Greece should be more liberal and look whats best for them and having those neo nazi nationalists and a Church thats meddling in their affairs is also not helping. They should think about how they are going to pay back the foreign debt they owe and how they are going to survive within the next few years economically because right now they need all the help they can get.

They need to be a secular state first by leaving their medieval mentality where religious authorities interfering politics, education and everything else.

afterall, the latest "arsehole" still refers to us as "skopjans"...I fail to understand yours and other peoples belief that the current "arsehole" is more progressive...

Mate, it`s probably because, if anyone in Greece mentions about ROM as Macedonia, then their life can be in danger. New mayor already under fire from fascist political parties and church and if he says Macedonia to Macedonia, then he may find himself in jail or get killed by golden down.

[TrueMacedonian]

NO WAY,,,, The mayor in Solun is a Vlach,,,, I simply don't believe such lies! He's a pure hellene from the planet of the hellenes with a history and culture that is more hellene than hellene.

[TrueMacedonian]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-press-review-november-22-2%C3%A5aa%C3%A5

Macedonia Press Review � November 22, 2010

Macedonia seeks US support for NATO ambitions. No NATO membership without name change. Positive climate for name dispute solution, says Ivanov.

Sinisa Jakov MarusicSkopje

DNEVNIK
US President Barack Obama said he regrets that Macedonia remains outside NATO and told his Macedonian counterpart, Gjorge Ivanov that the United States remains committed to the efforts to resolve the Macedonia-Greece name dispute that prevents Skopje from entering the alliance.


UTRINSKI VESNIK
Nothing new for Macedonia from the Lisbon NATO summit held from 19-21 November. Despite the declaration of support from NATO chiefs, it remains clear that without a solution to the dispute with Greece, Macedonia will remain out of the Alliance.


VREME
At its Lisbon summit, NATO repeated its conclusion arrived at in the 2008 Bucharest summit, regarding Macedonia. The country must first change its name in agreement with Greece and then join the alliance. The Macedonian President said that over the past year Skopje had shown the will to solve the dispute with Greece and that now, unlike previously, there is a positive climate for a solution.


Predavnik. All of them. From VMRO to SDSM.

[Vangelovski]

We all know that Macedonia cannot enter NATO without a name change. That is why it is so obvious that those promoting NATO membership are promoting it at the expense of the name.

[Prolet]

Prolet how does the latest "arsehole" parading as Mayor of Solun differ to the previous "arsehole"...afterall, the latest "arsehole" still refers to us as "skopjans"...I fail to understand yours and other peoples belief that the current "arsehole" is more progressive...

Phoenix, This arsehole has a hidden agenda from what i can see, he is using smooth tactics to squeeze more euros out of our people by trying to be nice in some way. Im not saying that we should take the bait by any means, this is the attitude that got them to where they are now, with nationalism and church interference.

[George S.]

i agree tm this mayor is a vlach & is a hellene.So he is talking & acting what one expects ffrom the greek side of the fence..

[julie]

The country must first change its name in agreement with Greece and then join the alliance
NATO can kiss my Macedonian ass.
Traitorous governments, they both should be working as a coalition together , SDMS, VMRO, united , to save Macedonia. They are both involved in brainwashing the people.
Can someone please tell me , why the fuck then does Macedonia commit 250 Macedonian soldiers to NATO????????

[Pelister]

UMD's policies stem from this mentality.

It's an attitude that needs to change. The West, including the European Council have indicated that we 'must' change our name. There must be criticism of the position of the U.N, the E.C and NATO regarding the Macedonians, but there isn't. We must defend our legal and our historical rights, by rejecting the TERMS they have put to us - stop them right there, I have always believed; that hasn't happened. If all of this ended, UMD would have no one left to appease, there would be no room for negotiation and 'compromise' therefore no more talks on the issue, and therefore no more meetings, and probably nothing left to say. Its why UMD have refused to take a principled legal and historical defence of our identity, because it leaves them nothing 'to play with' so to speak. How effective do you think they would be if you shot down two things UMD use in their campaign strategy to promote themselves, one, they represent the Macedonian diaspora, and two, the message they've been sending that "we" are willing to compromise. You would reveal it has no base, and in nothing of value to say.

[Akzion]

Here's a more extended and accurately translated part of the interview.

-This is apparently the one side. I don’t know if you agree, but Thessaloniki seems to have two hearts: one that beats left and is the heart of Anagnostakis, Christianopoulos, even Koudas, and one that beats on the right. The heart of Psomiadis and Anthimos.

-So it is. This is, after all, the big bet. Someday we have to convince the fanatics that Skopians, for instance, we can’t have them just to fill our supermarkets and hotels. Why, what’s wrong with dual naming? And, you know, what the big challenge is for me. I want these two hearts you’re saying, the two souls of Thessaloniki, I want to bring them closer. If I succeed, I’ll have closed another chapter.

-How can you bring them, when half people are questioning your patriotism?

-They’re much less, Mr. Mahairas. My Greekness or my patriotism are questioned by the fanatics. I have a sense of patriotism, but this is not limited to a "long live the Greek flag”. My family’s origins is from Prousovo, now in Skopie, and from Nymphaio, originating from Moscopole of Albania. How can I say ... I feel a little like a Greek of diaspora. If you want, my patriotism or Greekness, is beyond borders.

-(I'm trying to tell him that Thessaloniki does not encourage such views, but he disagrees strongly. He reminds me of the multicultural tradition of the city, saying that when Constantine entered as a winner, he found 50,000 Jews, 30,000 Turks and 20,000 Greeks. "So" I said, "that’s why Karatzaferis cherishes you”. He seems to have a ready answer: "Karatzaferis, Vellopoulos and all those who attack me, don’t even know that the Liberty Square took its’ name after the Young Turks revolution).
What is your opinion on Kemal Ataturk?

-Kemal Ataturk was indeed a slayer of Pontic people, as LAOS says. I would even add, that he was a harbinger of racial exterminations made by German fascism. But History is History. Kemal grew up and spent a part of his life in this famous house of Thessaloniki. In 1933, in times of de-escalation of tension with Ankara, Papanastasiou gave this building to the Turkish government, and renamed the road passing in front of it, to "Kemal Ataturk Street”. In ‘55, with the events of Constantinople, of course, they changed the name.

-Yes, but how did this issue came forth?

-It didn’t come forth now. It was during the Papandreou-Jem ministry, the time of the earthquake diplomacy and improvement of Greek-Turkish relations. But I have a question: the home of George Seferis, which is in Vourla, close to Smyrna, was renovated by Turks and they renamed the street that passes in front of it. If they did it, why shouldn’t we?

-So you’re thinking about it ...

-No, there’s no such issue right now. But, you know what? Within the objectives of my council is to bring 300,000 Turk visitors to the city, who amongst other things, would visit the home of Kemal Ataturk. Do you think, Turks were stupid to open Panagia Soumela and built a lot of hotels before it?

YouTube - ΑΝΘΙΜOΣ Μ�*OΥΤΑΡΗΣ

[TrueMacedonian]

They’re much less, Mr. Mahairas. My Greekness or my patriotism are questioned by the fanatics. I have a sense of patriotism, but this is not limited to a "long live the Greek flag”. My family’s origins is from Prousovo, now in Skopie, and from Nymphaio, originating from Moscopole of Albania. How can I say ... I feel a little like a Greek of diaspora. If you want, my patriotism or Greekness, is beyond borders.

How could a Vlaho become a "Greek" is the question we've all been asking for a while. Maybe this new Vlaho here can help explain how in the world this can happen? And that these same people, who obviously suffer from an identity crisis, deny people that have inhabited Macedonia for centuries the right to call themselves ethnic Macedonians, is a joke.

[Daskalot]

How could a Vlaho become a "Greek" is the question we've all been asking for a while. Maybe this new Vlaho here can help explain how in the world this can happen? And that these same people, who obviously suffer from an identity crisis, deny people that have inhabited Macedonia for centuries the right to call themselves ethnic Macedonians, is a joke.

I do also want to know this, how does a person of ethnic Vlach/Aromanian origin become an ethnic Greek?

[Onur]

"So" I said, "that�s why Karatzaferis cherishes you�. He seems to have a ready answer: "Karatzaferis, Vellopoulos and all those who attack me, don�t even know that the Liberty Square took its� name after the Young Turks revolution).

What is your opinion on Kemal Ataturk?

-Kemal Ataturk was indeed a slayer of Pontic people, as LAOS says. I would even add, that he was a harbinger of racial exterminations made by German fascism. But History is History. Kemal grew up and spent a part of his life in this famous house of Thessaloniki.

Karazafer is just a fucking liar.

The prime evil named Germanos Karavangelis was responsible from everything happened in Blacksea region. He even bring some romaika speaking people around Ukraine-Russia to kill the Turks in Blacksea cuz more than half of christian people in there didn't even join Karavangelis`s evil plans.

And Greek soldiers was the invaders and Turks was being invaded by them. So, who was the victim there and who slayed who?

Also someone in Greece should remind that pig named Kara-Zafer to change his Turkish name b4 spreading his hate propaganda against us.

Vlachs consider themselves as Hellenes and Turkish named idiots swearing at Turks. These people are just fucking losers in identity crisis.

[kykypajko]

Kykypajko,

I wanted to respond, but I have no idea where you're going with any of your ramblings or what you point is. In fact, I don't think you quite understand the social and political context in which the Krusevo manifesto was FREELY written and the social and political context in which the Framework Agreement was FORCED onto us. Perhaps when you actually make a point backed up by some logical argumentation it will be worthwhile debating.

Oh well if some Aussie has some magical insight into an society that hasen't existed since 1913, then by all means do share

judging by the "logic" on here, my answers should be:
a) soros conspiracy
b) metoist conspiracy
c) evil mason conspiracy
d) personal attack
e) all of the above

таков памет има на МТО

[kykypajko]

Starting from this (or kuku's first spam post) OFF-TOPIC posting, which has diverted this rather productive thread into some unrelated "discussion", I request the MTO Admin (or RTG) to clean it up by editing, deletion or removal (to a new thread) of unrelated posts.

So pochit,
I.

Sorry to ruin the group think on here. It must be painful to defend your endless conspiracy theories