Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

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  • United Macedonians
    Junior Member
    • Mar 2010
    • 3

    The United Macedonians would like to thank the MTO for welcoming our organization into this forum with open arms.

    Unfortunately, it has been a while since we have posted on here, and we must apologise to all for our lack of participation. Though we may not be readily available to engage in the various discussions on this forum, we are always happy to hear from people with any questions or comments they may have regarding our organization and it's activities.

    Our website is currently under construction, but you may contact us at: [email protected]


    In response to the question about 'the Macedonian Cause', we hope our mission statement can answer that;

    United Macedonians Mission Statement

    WHEREAS, The Macedonian nation, language, alphabet, culture and national history, are distinct and different from all nations, languages, alphabets, cultures and national histories of the world;
    WHEREAS, Macedonia was occupied in 1912 by its neighbours, Albania, Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia, and divided among them;
    WHEREAS, The Macedonians living in the Little Prespa and Golo Brdo regions of Macedonia (within the present borders of Albania), in the Pirin part of Macedonia (within the present borders of Bulgaria), in the Aegean part of Macedonia (within the present borders of Greece), and in the Gora and Prohor Pchinski regions of Macedonia (within the present borders of Serbia & 'Kosovo'), are denied the basic human and national rights at the end of this and beginning of the next millennium;
    WHEREAS, The Republic of Macedonia, although covering only 39% of Macedonia's ethnic territory, is a national state and pride of Macedonians everywhere.


    Therefore, The United Macedonians has embarked on the following mission:
    1. To work for the national unity of Macedonians worldwide, regardless of their religious beliefs, political opinions or affiliations;
    2. To raise the national consciousness and pride of all ethnic Macedonians;
    3. To work for the attainment of National and Human Rights of all Macedonians, especially those living in the occupied territories of Macedonia;
    4. To promote good public relations with all peoples and governments who support the national independence and development of Macedonia;
    5. To work towards a full international acceptance of the Republic of Macedonia under its constitutional name, and for a greater well being for all its citizens;
    6. To work towards easier integration of Macedonians in their countries of residence; and
    7. To help all Macedonians achieve their utmost in their chosen fields, and thus help society as a whole.


    In response to the comments on the various forums about which organizations 'started' this campaign and which were 'constulted' about it - those questions really are irrelevant. The only question there should be for anyone is "where do I sign up, and how can I help?" It doesn't matter if the United Macedonians logo or your logo was not pasted on the advertisements - this is not being done to promote certain organizations. The message of the campaign is what matters.

    MHRMI & AMHRC have been leading the fight for Macedonian rights for years, and right now there is no greater threat to our existence as this absurd 'name issue'. They took the initiative and started this campaign, and for that they should be thanked.

    That said, we would like to encourage everyone on this forum - as well as all Macedonians around the world - to promote and support the 'Our Name is Macedonia' campaign to their friends and family - especially to those living in the Republic of Macedonia. Our goals can only be achieved if Macedonians truly unite and stand up for this monumental cause.




    Thank you.
    the United Macedonians Organization of Canada

    Comment

    • Makedonska_Kafana
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2010
      • 2642

      Welcome United Macedonians!

      I can't stress enough how important that the United Macedonian website be completed and updated regularly. You have 50 years of Macedonian history in diaspora that somehow needs to be found and posted.

      Thanks

      ADVICE

      Don't get into the same problem we see today with UMD where multiple people have access to the account name so please avoid any problems by ending each post with ie. Dragi, Andy, Ted, Bill etc.

      That rule should apply to ANYONE using organization names for our own safety - alias

      I could register as UMD_CA and have a field day here ..

      Thanks
      Last edited by Makedonska_Kafana; 08-31-2010, 01:56 PM.
      http://www.makedonskakafana.com

      Macedonia for the Macedonians

      Comment

      • Makedonetz
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2010
        • 1080

        Welcome MK and glad to see another macedonian presence here in Ontario & Canada aswell as myself. Ive been to many functions @ the crkva in Markham and my family have meet a few deca belgaci that left with my tatko from Mala Prespa in 1947

        Keep up the good work! :rmacedonia
        Makedoncite se borat
        za svoite pravdini!

        "The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria,Greece or Serbia can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
        - Goce Delchev

        Comment

        • Makedonska_Kafana
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2010
          • 2642

          Originally posted by Makedonetz View Post
          Welcome MK and glad to see another macedonian presence here in Ontario & Canada aswell as myself. Ive been to many functions @ the crkva in Markham and my family have meet a few deca belgaci that left with my tatko from Mala Prespa in 1947

          Keep up the good work! :rmacedonia
          maknews thinks i'm half australian .. lmfao

          http://www.makedonskakafana.com

          Macedonia for the Macedonians

          Comment

          • Makedonetz
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2010
            • 1080

            Originally posted by Makedonska_Kafana View Post
            maknews thinks i'm half australian .. lmfao

            Hell we all have roots in Australian, i have 2 uncles there probaly in Adalaide somewhere

            out of curiosity anyone know a Micho Markovski who might live in Adalaide?
            Makedoncite se borat
            za svoite pravdini!

            "The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria,Greece or Serbia can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
            - Goce Delchev

            Comment

            • Makedonska_Kafana
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2010
              • 2642

              Makedonetz, the regular posters here have known me since 1912 so this is really just back to the future for us.

              http://www.makedonskakafana.com

              Macedonia for the Macedonians

              Comment

              • Makedonetz
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2010
                • 1080

                Bravo
                Makedoncite se borat
                za svoite pravdini!

                "The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria,Greece or Serbia can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
                - Goce Delchev

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15660

                  Originally posted by United Macedonians View Post
                  The United Macedonians would like to thank the MTO for welcoming our organization into this forum with open arms.

                  Unfortunately, it has been a while since we have posted on here, and we must apologise to all for our lack of participation. Though we may not be readily available to engage in the various discussions on this forum, we are always happy to hear from people with any questions or comments they may have regarding our organization and it's activities.

                  Our website is currently under construction, but you may contact us at: [email protected]


                  In response to the question about 'the Macedonian Cause', we hope our mission statement can answer that;

                  United Macedonians Mission Statement

                  WHEREAS, The Macedonian nation, language, alphabet, culture and national history, are distinct and different from all nations, languages, alphabets, cultures and national histories of the world;
                  WHEREAS, Macedonia was occupied in 1912 by its neighbours, Albania, Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia, and divided among them;
                  WHEREAS, The Macedonians living in the Little Prespa and Golo Brdo regions of Macedonia (within the present borders of Albania), in the Pirin part of Macedonia (within the present borders of Bulgaria), in the Aegean part of Macedonia (within the present borders of Greece), and in the Gora and Prohor Pchinski regions of Macedonia (within the present borders of Serbia & 'Kosovo'), are denied the basic human and national rights at the end of this and beginning of the next millennium;
                  WHEREAS, The Republic of Macedonia, although covering only 39% of Macedonia's ethnic territory, is a national state and pride of Macedonians everywhere.


                  Therefore, The United Macedonians has embarked on the following mission:
                  1. To work for the national unity of Macedonians worldwide, regardless of their religious beliefs, political opinions or affiliations;
                  2. To raise the national consciousness and pride of all ethnic Macedonians;
                  3. To work for the attainment of National and Human Rights of all Macedonians, especially those living in the occupied territories of Macedonia;
                  4. To promote good public relations with all peoples and governments who support the national independence and development of Macedonia;
                  5. To work towards a full international acceptance of the Republic of Macedonia under its constitutional name, and for a greater well being for all its citizens;
                  6. To work towards easier integration of Macedonians in their countries of residence; and
                  7. To help all Macedonians achieve their utmost in their chosen fields, and thus help society as a whole.


                  In response to the comments on the various forums about which organizations 'started' this campaign and which were 'constulted' about it - those questions really are irrelevant. The only question there should be for anyone is "where do I sign up, and how can I help?" It doesn't matter if the United Macedonians logo or your logo was not pasted on the advertisements - this is not being done to promote certain organizations. The message of the campaign is what matters.

                  MHRMI & AMHRC have been leading the fight for Macedonian rights for years, and right now there is no greater threat to our existence as this absurd 'name issue'. They took the initiative and started this campaign, and for that they should be thanked.

                  That said, we would like to encourage everyone on this forum - as well as all Macedonians around the world - to promote and support the 'Our Name is Macedonia' campaign to their friends and family - especially to those living in the Republic of Macedonia. Our goals can only be achieved if Macedonians truly unite and stand up for this monumental cause.




                  Thank you.
                  Thank you UM.
                  We agree with your sentiments above.

                  We have come to develop a distaste for the "constitutional name" reference because it is clear the constitution of Macedonia appears to be the doormat for the wishes of countries and organisations who do not hold the interest of Macedonia and Macedonians as a priority.

                  This thread is solely devoted to our combined efforts in defining the Macedonian Cause. Please post your feedback, additions and changes in this thread. The moderators will edit this first post to include your changes until we have all agreed on a complete, perfect, unwavering and timeless definition of the Macedonian Cause. --

                  This thread contains the Macedonian Cause as presently defined by a group of interested people. Is there anything there that offends you or will cause you to distance yourself from the mindset we have tried to encapsulate here?
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Makedonska_Kafana
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2010
                    • 2642

                    Philip Reeker - "double name" as a solution to the dispute

                    U.S. Ambassador to Macedonia Philip Reeker said that the position of Washington to solve Greek-Macedonian dispute does not foresee a change of constitutional name nor the constitution of the country.

                    The newspaper said that the statements of Reeker said in an interview with Skopje's "Alpha", it represents a de facto acceptance of a "double name" as a solution to the dispute between Skopje and Athens or to find a compromise solution that would replace the reference FYROM and the name Republic Macedonia would remain for internal use and for bilateral communication with countries that have recognized its constitutional name.

                    Philip Reeker, the newspaper added, assures that the solution to the dispute would not affect the Macedonian identity and language.

                    - I believe that the solution should lead to a change of constitutional name or the Constitution. It is your constitution, your world document. What is necessary is both Greece and Macedonia to reach agreement on an international name that will replace FYROM and where it will be used. What we support is to turn to the real question, and that no issues of identity or language, but refers to finding a solution that will allow you to save the Constitution and be closer to Severoatlantskata Alliance has passed " Ethnos statement Reeker.

                    The newspaper commented that statements by U.S. Ambassador in Skopje came on the eve of anticipated new initiative by UN mediator Matthew Nimetz for resolving the name issue and the time to seek a formula to overcome the situation bezizleznata in name talks.

                    You need to be seen whether the statements of Reeker fully reflect official U.S. position and that Athens is familiar with the formation of a new framework for negotiations, writes Ethnos.

                    „САД го потчукнаа Скопје по рамото“, така грчкиот весник „Етнос“ ја коментира последната изјава на американскиот амбасадор во Македонија Филип Рикер дека позицијата на Вашингтон за решавање на грчко-македонскиот спор не предвидува промена на уставното име ниту на Уставот на земјата.
                    http://www.makedonskakafana.com

                    Macedonia for the Macedonians

                    Comment

                    • DedoAleko
                      Member
                      • Jun 2009
                      • 969

                      “Атина се откажува од „ерга омнес“

                      „To Парон“: Атина се откажува од „ерга омнес“
                      14.09.2010 - 14:26 | Македонија
                      Владата на Јоргос Папандреу се согласила со најновиот предлог на медијаторот Метју Нимиц за името „Република Вардарска Македонија“ без негова севкупна употреба на што досега инсистираше Атина, пишува грчкиот весник „To Парон“.


                      Според весникот, пронајдена е формула со која грчкото „ерга омнес“ ќе биде игнорирано. Ваквиот „болен компромис“, наведува „Парон“ ќе биде тешко да помине и носи голем политички ризик за Владата на Папандреу.

                      Весникот кој пред неколку дена објави дека Нимиц им доставил нов предлог на грција и на Макeдoнија, што беше демантирано од двете страни, тврди дека Атина дала зелено светло уште во јули, а оти Скопје се уште не одговорило.

                      „To Парон“ посочува дека новиот развој на настаните околу спорот за името се случува во пресрет на посетата на Папандреу на Њујорк каде што ќе учествува на Генералното собрание на ОН, но и во време кога и од ЕУ и од САД и од НАТО се создава клима за прифаќање компромис.

                      Потсетува на изјавата на претседателот на Европската комисија Жозе Мануел Баросо дека спорот треба да се реши брзо, како и на инсистирањето на САД и на НАТО прашањето да се затвори до ноемврискиот Самит на Алијансата во Португалија.
                      izvor:
                      Last edited by DedoAleko; 09-14-2010, 09:26 AM.

                      Comment

                      • DedoAleko
                        Member
                        • Jun 2009
                        • 969

                        Originalniot teks moze da go najdete ovde:



                        Bi bilo dobro nekoj koj go znae jazikot da go razgleda originalniot tekst. "Sluchajno" od Sitel da nemaat neshto ispushteno da prenesat.
                        Last edited by DedoAleko; 09-14-2010, 03:19 PM.

                        Comment

                        • ArMakedon
                          Junior Member
                          • Aug 2010
                          • 45

                          Originally posted by dedoaleko View Post
                          originalniot teks moze da go najdete ovde:



                          bi bilo dobro nekoj koj go znae jazikot da go razgleda originalniot tekst. "sluchajno" od sitel da nemaat neshto ispushteno da prenesat.
                          Линкот не ти работи.
                          "The first method for estimating the intelligence of a ruler is to look at the men he has around him." — Niccolo Machiavelli

                          Comment

                          • DedoAleko
                            Member
                            • Jun 2009
                            • 969

                            Originally posted by ArMakedon View Post
                            Линкот не ти работи.
                            popraveno

                            Comment

                            • fyrOM
                              Banned
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 2180

                              Thanks for the link fix DedoAleko.

                              This is a Google translate of the Greek text.

                              Promising news if true but not quite enough.

                              Give everything to Skopje!



                              Prime Minister leaves the established national position on a name for all

                              Pages: 1

                              In severe, painful recession on the name issue of Macedonia has already agreed to the government, according to reliable information "P".

                              During the same information, the government of George Papandreou has already agreed to the proposal of special envoy of UN Secretary General, Mr M. Nimetz, the following points:

                              • name 'Republic of Vardar Macedonia.

                              • This name will not necessarily apply «erga omnes», ie for all, so far as the Greek position is settled. We found a formula (probably has already been filed ...) in which the «erga omnes» will be ignored!

                              This was a requirement of the Skopje side, who posed as a prerequisite for any further discussion on the matter.

                              It is unknown at this time what formula would plasaristei here in Greece this serious backtracking from a position that was so far settled position of all Greek governments to pass.

                              But is very difficult to pass. And of course the government will take the risk to bear enormous political cost. Please note that it is not entirely valid according to our information:

                              • While the proposal by Mr Nimetz meets a clear and firm position of Skopje, the Greek side has responded positively to this suggestion, since July, while FYROM has not yet answered!

                              This is also confirmed himself the UN Secretary General at a meeting with a delegation of the European People's Party recently. That is a comprehensive proposal Nimitz, which has responded positively to Greece, and expected the answer from the perspective of a view!

                              Obviously the expected visit of G. Papandreou in U.S. for the work of the General Assembly of the UN, will be used and what is at issue, the final formula is painful compromise on this critical national issue.

                              Especially since there are serious political and historical objections to the designation, which has been revealed for some time, apparently addicted to enter the Greek people ...

                              Complaints coming from politicians and historians. And there they made complaints, comes the move «erga omnes» to make things even worse.

                              It is characteristic of the emerging climate of acceptance that a compromise is contemptible, and the fact that President Barroso urges EU to "fix" this issue, and quickly, and NATO.

                              It is obvious that NATO and especially Washington, eager for a "solution" to the summit which is scheduled for November. Remember that last Sunday "THE PRESENT" had indicated that we are close to a "solution" and warned of the limits which can not be surpassed by Greece, the "red lines". But it seems that all the laborious scenes are "arranged". The consultants of G. Papandreou (visible and invisible ...) all show that they are doing "well" their jobs! And it remains to see what the reaction of the Southwest, by Ant. Samaras, other parties and especially the Greek people!

                              Comment

                              • Rogi
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 2343

                                Provided that the article above is true, this is what I think will take place:

                                Macedonian Government will be happy, their response will be 'this is good progress forward and is a good basis for further negotiation, but we are very close to a solution'.

                                What they will mean, is that now the Greeks have given up the 'erga omnes' position, the only thing left to discuss is the actual name itself.

                                This, being true, will be considered by the international community as a major concession on Greece's part, throwing the ball back on Macedonia to concede/compromise (really, let's just say capitulate) further - the only thing left to negotiate on, is the name.

                                Whilst I don't believe the Macedonian Government will accept 'Republic of Vardar Macedonia', they will accept a name change (which will be put to referendum) now that it is not for all use.

                                I think that was the goal of the Government all along, where they expected to change the name in the end, but wanted to negotiate on its' use first before they got to their real negotiating position.

                                I think this puts Macedonia in a very dangerous position, if they continue these stupid negotiations.

                                Comment

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