U.N investigating Macedonians in Greece

[toothpaste]

Okay "Greek Macedonian"

Hm..ok u are non-Greek not 3rd generation immigrant..

[El Bre]

Toothpaste, are you from the village Emanouil Pappas?

[Traveller]

Toothpaste, are you from the village Emanouil Pappas?

You are scary. How do you know this village? Sorry for intervening but i cannot resist. El bre where are you from?

[toothpaste]

Toothpaste, are you from the village Emanouil Pappas?

No.
Should i ?

Sounds like an interesting village ..

[Risto the Great]

In 1925 :

44.15% Greek Refugees
35.00% Greeks Native
5.53% Slavophone Patriarchists ("Slavophone Greeks" or "Grecomans")
7.11% Slavophone Exarchists ("Bulgarians","Slavomacedonians" or "Macedonians")
2.50% Vlachs pro-Greek
0.82% Vlachs pro-Romanian
0.13% Albanians
4.75% Jews
0.02% Other

35%
Hmmm, are you wearing those Bavarian coloured glasses again?

[El Bre]

How do you know this village?

I'm interested in Macedonian geography and ethnology.

El bre where are you from?

Argentina

[Pelister]

In 1925 :

44.15% Greek Refugees
35.00% Greeks Native
5.53% Slavophone Patriarchists ("Slavophone Greeks" or "Grecomans")
7.11% Slavophone Exarchists ("Bulgarians","Slavomacedonians" or "Macedonians")
2.50% Vlachs pro-Greek
0.82% Vlachs pro-Romanian
0.13% Albanians
4.75% Jews
0.02% Other

Take a close look at the terminology. What a mess !

People are splite and divided according to where their perceived loyalties lie !

How do they know that ? Where they asked ? And if they were asked how can we be certain what they said ?

Pseudo-history at its best.

[Risto the Great]

I felt that Spartan made a point that the Macedonian issue has nothing to do with his appreciation of the Greek identity.

I may have made an assumption about Spartan. But it is completely consistent with what happens when I talk about these issues with many Greeks of Greece proper. They are extremely comfortable with their identity and do not bother with the pettiness of this name dispute. In fact, many find the existence of Macedonians in Greece to be very interesting and a wonderful realisation to have some natives of Greece that are culturally quite different to the modern Greek identity.

We have a Greek identity in (now) Northern Greece and it is in fact a fresh and new one. They are very sensitive about their identity and make claims that are preposterous about their connections with antiquity and pureness of family lines. They make excuses for the ethnocide that the people of the region have endured over the last 100 years.

Spartan is merely comfortable with his identity and probably likes the mantra of "live and let live". If he still lived in Greece, he would not have been one of the people following around the UN investigator insisting a visit to some ancient site.

[Svoliani]

@ spartan

De re skonde , ti fkians edo? thes na maths gia ti makedonia?
mi sxournas , ala den ksers tipota, ise dip ksibletsiavos!!
pigene shakiat stou viro kai plen tou stoma sou, exies pi polla paparia.
e mo, me tsotiniases, tha se doko efkeria na pis signomi ili tha se sliaroso vre xliara.
Traveller isixase, ein dip tsormanos to pedi den nougaei

Thats just some funny talk from Makedonia for Spartan.
And file i didnt mean a word of what i wrote im just giving you an example of the dialect Any chance you are from Xrisafa village?

PS - Gyftos we say Giouftos

[Spartan]

@ Risto
Thank you Risto, your kindness is greatly appreciated.
Your post pretty much sums up how I feel.

Its just too bad some of my "fellow" countrymen are offended by my stance.
I understand they feel strongly about this, as I am patriotic as well. But they must understand that I do not consider Macedonian history to be my history, thus , the identity of the "true" Macedonians does not impact my life as it does most of you/them(both sides). If it was Sparti that was in a similar situation, there is no doubt that I would be very passionate about it, but I would not expect a northern Greek to be all up in arms over it.
Like I said in a previous post, and like Risto mentioned above,I am comforatable with my ethnicity. I do not feel threatened by what the Macedonians on this site post, as some of these others obviously do.I do not feel the need to prove/show-off my "Greekness". Greek is what I am, not what Im trying to be. Therefore I dont feel the need to limit my views and opinions according to the "rules" of my ethnicity.
I dont believe that one must meet certain guidelines to "qualify" as any particular race/ethnicity either.
Its shamefull that the only 3 Greeks on this site, out of 100 members, would find each other to insult and argue with.
Unreal.

[Spartan]

@ spartan

De re skonde , ti fkians edo? thes na maths gia ti makedonia?
mi sxournas , ala den ksers tipota, ise dip ksibletsiavos!!
pigene shakiat stou viro kai plen tou stoma sou, exies pi polla paparia.
e mo, me tsotiniases, tha se doko efkeria na pis signomi ili tha se sliaroso vre xliara.
Traveller isixase, ein dip tsormanos to pedi den nougaei

Thats just some funny talk from Makedonia for Spartan.
And file i didnt mean a word of what i wrote im just giving you an example of the dialect Any chance you are from Xrisafa village?

PS - Gyftos we say Giouftos

At the Greek part -

Never heard of Xpisafa
I am from Trapezonti, it is on the foothills of Mt Taygetus, 5 minutes outside of Sparti.

[Risto the Great]

@ Risto
Thank you Risto, your kindness is greatly appreciated.
Your post pretty much sums up how I feel.

Its just too bad some of my "fellow" countrymen are offended by my stance.
I understand they feel strongly about this, as I am patriotic as well. But they must understand that I do not consider Macedonian history to be my history, thus , the identity of the "true" Macedonians does not impact my life as it does most of you/them(both sides). If it was Sparti that was in a similar situation, there is no doubt that I would be very passionate about it, but I would not expect a northern Greek to be all up in arms over it.
Like I said in a previous post, and like Risto mentioned above,I am comforatable with my ethnicity. I do not feel threatened by what the Macedonians on this site post, as some of these others obviously do.I do not feel the need to prove/show-off my "Greekness". Greek is what I am, not what Im trying to be. Therefore I dont feel the need to limit my views and opinions according to the "rules" of my ethnicity.
I dont believe that one must meet certain guidelines to "qualify" as any particular race/ethnicity either.
Its shamefull that the only 3 Greeks on this site, out of 100 members, would find each other to insult and argue with.
Unreal.

Excellent stuff Spartan. I am glad I interpreted your intent correctly.
Can you please tell me how you describe your nationality to other people? Especially to non-Greeks.

Can you tell me how other Greeks have introduced themselves to you as well?

I am trying to overcome this problem many Northern Greeks have with the belief that they can call themselves Macedonian and then automatically assume it means Greek. I do not believe a single one of them would ever introduce themselves to Non-Greeks as "Macedonians".

[toothpaste]

35%
Hmmm, are you wearing those Bavarian coloured glasses again?

Its about Greek part of Macedonia.
Pro-1912 situation is quiet similar,if u change Greek Refugees with Turks.

[toothpaste]

We have a Greek identity in (now) Northern Greece and it is in fact a fresh and new one. They are very sensitive about their identity and make claims that are preposterous about their connections with antiquity and pureness of family lines. .

Fresh and new one? ...
For the Greek speakers is as old as the epigraphs found in the same land..

Or do you mean that when the majority ,became a huge majority ? (1922/23)
So 100 years,one century is still fresh and new one...Nice musty smell..
People who their 80 years old granpas where born in Macedonia feel "sensitive" about their identity...

So Mr Risto..how deep should we dig to define the beginning of time?The critical point when everything must go back?
1911 ? The 7th century AD and the Slavic migrations? Alexander's era? Before 700 BC when Macedonians passed to Emathia?

When do you think is better for your people and worst for Greeks?

I think you must wake up and live in 2008...
Dreaming of "Egej" is a vain dream..Get over it-reality is different.

[toothpaste]

And this goes for Spartan...

In 200 B.C

"Alexander son of Philip, and the Greeks except the Lacedaemonians--"

We can very well imagine
that they were utterly indifferent in Sparta
to this inscription. "Except the Lacedaemonians",
but naturally. The Spartans were not
to be led and ordered about
as precious servants. Besides
a panhellenic campaign without
a Spartan king as a leader
would not have appeared very important.
O, of course "except the Lacedaemonians."

This too is a stand. Understandable.

Thus, except the Lacedaemonians at Granicus;
and then at Issus; and in the final
battle, where the formidable army was swept away
that the Persians had massed at Arbela:
which had set out from Arbela for victory, and was swept away.

And out of the remarkable panhellenic campaign,
victorious, brilliant,
celebrated, glorious
as no other had ever been glorified,
the incomparable: we emerged;
a great new Greek world.

We; the Alexandrians, the Antiocheans,
the Seleucians, and the numerous
rest of the Greeks of Egypt and Syria,
and of Media, and Persia, and the many others.
With our extensive territories,
with the varied action of thoughtful adaptations.
And the Common Greek Language
we carried to the heart of Bactria, to the Indians.

As if we were to talk of Lacedaemonians now!

Constantine P. Cavafy (1931)