Racism from Greece and Greeks

[Bill77]

Voltron, you are a very insecure little thing ain't you.

Are you aware the more you go on about it and try to weasel your way out of it, the more guilt you show?

A normal person (who is accused of something) would brush it off after the first attempt of explaining and say "What ever" then move on.

But you, not only are you displaying discomfort or distress, you are also making excuses for Otoman, which is not for you to do.

Move on champ, it will do you good.

[Voltron]

Voltron, you are a very insecure little thing ain't you.

Are you aware the more you go on about it and try to weasel your way out of it, the more guilt you show?

A normal person (who is accused of something) would brush it off after the first attempt of explaining and say "What ever" then move on.

But you, not only are you displaying discomfort or distress, you are also making excuses for Otoman, which is not for you to do.

Move on champ, it will do you good.

lol. trying reverse psychology on me Bill ? A question was asked, I answered it. I was only being polite. Take it up with SOM that resurrected this. I thought it was as good as dead.

[George S.]

voltron you were told to move on Debate the more you dwell on it the more you look like you got something to hide.

[Soldier of Macedon]

No, I meant someone from his home or dorm or whtatever.
I had my kid brother one time typing from my account years back in a general forum just to screw around.

Have you been experiencing deja vu lately? The guys make a point, you're not doing much to shake off the suspicion.

[Onur]

800 Greek Right-Wing Racist Blogs under Supervision

More than 800 blogs with highly racist content and right-wing ideology that cultivate hatred operate in Greece and daily receive thousands of hits, views and comments.

Until last week the police discreetly controlled such blogs, but after the massacre in Norway, it now views them differently. Indeed, from day to day, the police are waiting for Breivik’s web base to be announced, so as to identify any possible connection that he may have developed in Greece.

The Security Department considers certain the involvement of Greeks in Breivik’s case. From the first moment the Norwegian offender was arrested, there was a ‘smell of Greece’ in the case, following what Breivik supported in his manifesto. One week later, the Greek Police Department were certain that the 32-year-old man had connections with Greeks.

Police are also investigating the possibility of Breivik’s organisation branches. All this may be proven after receiving all the data from Breivik’s web base.

31 July 2011

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2011/07/31/800-greek-right-wing-racist-blogs-under-supervision/

[George S.]

authorities don't give a shit with the racists they are actually doing their work for them.

[lavce pelagonski]

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2011/08/01/apnewsbreak_greece_boosts_patrols_at_muslim_sites/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+Boston+Globe+--+World+News

Fears of far-right rise in crisis-hit Greece

ATHENS, Greece—They descended by the hundreds -- black-shirted, bat-wielding youths chasing down dark-skinned immigrants through the streets of Athens and beating them senseless in an unprecedented show of force by Greece's far-right extremists.

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In Greece, alarm is rising that the twin crises of financial meltdown and soaring illegal immigration are creating the conditions for a right-wing rise -- and the Norway massacre on Monday drove authorities to beef up security.

The move comes amid spiraling social unrest that has unleashed waves of rioting and vigilante thuggery on the streets of Athens. The U.N.'s refugee agency warns that some Athens neighborhoods have become zones where "fascist groups have established an odd lawless regime."

Greek police on Monday said they have increased security checks at Muslim prayer houses and other immigrant sites in response to the Norway shooting rampage that claimed 77 lives.

"There has been an increase in monitoring at these sites since the events occurred in Norway," said police spokesman Thanassis Kokkalakis.

Greece's fears are shared across Europe. Last week, EU counterterror officials held an emergency meeting in Brussels on ways to combat right-wing violence and rising Islamophobia, warning of a "major risk" of Norway copycats. The massacre by Anders Behring Breivik prompted continent-wide soul-searching about whether authorities have neglected the threat of right-wing extremists as they focus on jihadist terror.

Greece, however, may be particularly worrisome because of the intersection of extreme economic distress and rampant illegal immigration, which can create fertile ground for the rise of rightist movements. Immigrant scapegoating has been rife here as unemployment balloons amid economic catastrophe.

Even as Greece founders under mountains of debt, illegal immigrants have been streaming into the country across the Turkish border -- turning Greece into the migrant world's gateway to Europe. Last year, Greece accounted for 90 percent of the bloc's detected illegal border crossings, compared to 75 percent in 2009.

The UNHCR and Muslim groups say hate crimes have risen sharply, although police do not have hard numbers.

The xenophobic rage exploded in May, when youths rampaged through a heavily immigrant neighborhood in broad daylight, knifing and beating foreigners. The attacks left at least 25 people hospitalized with stab wounds or severe beatings. Athens has since suffered a spate of hate attacks by far-rightists.

Last November, the leader of a neo-Nazi group won a seat on Athens' city council, with an unprecedented 5.3 percent of the vote.

The UNHCR warns of daily attacks by fascist groups in central Athens.

"There has been a dangerous escalation in phenomena of racist violence targeting indiscriminately aliens, based solely on their skin color or country of origin," the UNHCR wrote in a June report.

"In certain areas of Athens, cruel and criminal attacks are nearly a daily phenomenon staged by fascist groups that have established an odd lawless regime."Continued...

Immigrants testify to the growing atmosphere of hostility.

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"I receive threats all the time," Naim Elgandour, the Egyptian-born head of the Muslim Association of Greece, said in an interview.

"Things have gotten much worse lately. It's an alarm bell from the rest for Europe," he said. "There may be 5,000 hardcore extremists in Athens, by they are gaining sympathy and tolerance by the day."

Elgandour said at least 10 makeshift mosques -- basements and coffee shops converted by immigrants to use as prayer sites -- have been damaged in firebomb and vandalism attacks in the past year.

Under the strain of fast-growing unemployment and new immigrant arrivals, once middle-class neighborhoods north of the center are turning into a rightist-ridden slums.

Police with machine guns guard intersections, white brothel lights line narrow back streets, and young men from violent far-right groups sit casually in squares, sipping cans of beer and hoping to intimidate immigrants.

Police spokesman Kokkalakis said violence by far-right groups has seen "periodical increases" but lacked numbers to point to a trend. But he said most cases of violence that appeared to have a "racial component" in Athens turned out to be the result of rivalry between criminal gangs.

Analysts argue that once-marginalized extremist groups are gaining a foothold in mainstream society for the first time, filling a perceived gap in law enforcement in crime-ridden neighborhoods, and benefiting from a surge in popular anger against the political establishment.

Since winning a seat on Athens City Council, Nikolaos Michaloliakos, head of the violent far-right group Golden Dawn, has tailored his recent rhetoric to the financial crisis.

"We are living in an enslaved country, financially and nationally," Michaloliakos, a 54-year-old mathematician, told supporters last month, giving a speech under a statue of Alexander the Great.

"We have a bankrupt economy and the thieving politicians responsible go unpunished," he said. "How long do they think they can keep lying and fooling the Greek people? Whether they like it or not, the hour of Golden Dawn and nationalist revolution is coming."

Aristotle Kallis, a professor of modern history at Lancaster University in Britain, studies European fascism. He argued that Greek extremists are losing the stigma of being associated with the 1967-74 far-right dictatorship and becoming more similar other European groups -- sharing ideas and methods on the Internet.

"Since the 1990s, Greek nationalism has mutated quite substantially," Kallis wrote in an email to the AP, warning of a broader European rise in bigotry.

"We are ... becoming complacent about a wider, deep and dangerous prejudice against immigrants that is spreading well beyond the constituency of the conventional far-right."

[fatso]

I think it`s Fatso`s turn now. Now he can pick up where Voltron left and take the thread to it`s 10th page in less than an hour. C`mon Fatso, you can do that!!!

Quite frankly, I have put on another 15lbs. I can't pick anything up let alone myself.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Analysts argue that once-marginalized extremist groups are gaining a foothold in mainstream society for the first time.........

For the first time!? I found this quite comical. These so-called "analysts" need to get their heads analysed.

[makgerman]

As Cultea would say, another greek priest has used his flexibility to prevent his son from marrying a Macedonian girl from Tetovo because according to the priest - Macedonians are pervert and are in a sect that is not related to the Orthodox church.

I don't believe greek priests are worthy in promoting love and harmony to their own greek people also - instead they encourage the greeks to judge others based on race, color, religion. What world do they live in?

Refer to an article in today's "Nova Makedonija"

http://www.novamakedonija.com.mk/NewsDetal.asp?vest=8311811152&id=9&prilog=0&setIzdanie=22346

I have translated and in parts summarized it using Google:


A Greek priest, a spiritual father of a faithful in Athens, did not allow his child to marry a Macedonian girl, and regarded a mixed marriage as not logical. Such was the fate of a 32-year-old Maria from Tetovo. Maria and 35-year-old Dionisis, lecturer of an electro-technical subject in Athens, met in Solun in September 2010. Mary went to visit local monasteries with friends - a married couple. The meeting with Dionisis meant love at first sight, they got along very well, and being together for two or three days, they planned to meet again. That’s when the problems started in their relationship. As a faithfull believer Dionisis wanted to introduce the girl to his spiritual father.

“When Dionisis informed his father of his plans and that he wants to visit me in Macedonia, the priest immediately began to persuade him from doing so. He told him that he must not go as the Macedonians are perverts and a sect of the Orthodox Faith. He spoke to him saying he will be in danger and for example his car would be smashed” said Maria.

Dionisis was persistent and finally told him he will still go to Macedonia upon which the priest insisted on Dionisis to not participate in the liturgy in the Macedonian Church.

“When Dionisis arrived in Skopje, I took him to the new ‘Vero-Centre’. At the beginning he didn’t even know that are Greeks who have invested in Macedonia and was astonished that Greek companies operate normally in the country tells Marija.

….Upon departing from Macedonia, Dionisis and Mary stayed in contact through the Internet and the phone. Not long after that they agreed to meet again in Athens.

“When we arrived at Dionsis’s house, I was pleasantly welcomed by his parents who lived in the same house. I brought gifts for everyone, but I have to admit it that they showed respect by organising a party in my honor. I had a gift for Dionisis’s spiritual father. I bought a large icon from one of our monasteries wanting to show my gratitude and love says Marija.

However, Maria’s stay in Athens did not continue to be as good as it had begun. Dionisis told her that he wants to go to the Church with her and to introduce her to the priest. He intended to show that by introducing Marija – he will demonstrate to the priest that he has met the spiritual soul mate he wants to marry and that nationality is not an issue for him. He wanted the priest's blessings for a wedding.

“We drank coffee when he decided to call the priest on the phone. They spoke for about two minutes. Dionisis got off his chair and went to his room. He was out for around 30 minutes. He returned as a totally different person. He said the priest was not available now but will see if he can meet us after lunch” - says Mary.

However, that afternoon, Dionisis avoided going to the church by coming up with a number of excuses.

“Late that evening I became very annoyed with him and asked him to tell me why we are not going to the church. Then Dionisis admitted that the priest refused to accept us together, let alone bless us. He convinced him that no priest from the Greek Church will marry him to a female that believes in the Macedonian Orthodox Church. He convinced him (Dionisis) that our marriage would not be right (proper) saying that with such a mother, the army will not accept his children in the army and that I will teach the children not to love Greece” – speaks Marija.

She recalls that it upset her very much and she had an argument with Dionisis for listening/accepting everything the priest wanted him to follow. She returned to Macedonia and the next day Dionisis spoke to the priest again who advised him that it will only be accepted if the wedding took place in a Serbian Orthodox Church or in Jovan Branishkovski’s Orthodox Ohrid Archbishopric.

Marija wasn’t prepared to accept that such that their relationship was definitely over. However, both are still in contact as friends. Marija showed us her SMS text message on her phone saying “Things are bad her. Young people protest, they are unemployed so they burn all government buildings. But is is totally our fault. We have distanced ourselves considerably away from God. Especially me”.

[cultea]

Macedonians are pervert and are in a sect that is not related to the Orthodox church.

I wouldn't marry a girl from another sect either, but if she's really pervert I would give it a second thought.

He convinced him (Dionisis) that our marriage would not be right (proper) saying that with such a mother, the army will not accept his children in the army and that I will teach the children not to love Greece” – speaks Marija.

She returned to Macedonia and the next day Dionisis spoke to the priest again who advised him that it will only be accepted if the wedding took place in a Serbian Orthodox Church or in Jovan Branishkovski’s Orthodox Ohrid Archbishopric.

Back in reality, as I already said in another thread, marriages with people of schismatic churches are very easy, common and accepted in Orthodox Church. That includes Macedonian Church, Armenian Church, Old-Calendar AND Catholics. With Protestants there is a problem because they're considered heretics, so the other person will have to be baptised first.
Yet, while there’s no problem with the marriage itself, at some point, the mixed couple will have to decide which Church their children will join (because they can’t join both).

Of course Greek Army accepts the children of dual nationality and of any religion as soldiers or officers.

[lavce pelagonski]

Our Church is not schimatic because your church does not recognise ours.

[makgerman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by makgerman
Macedonians are pervert and are in a sect that is not related to the Orthodox church.

I wouldn't marry a girl from another sect either, but if she's really pervert I would give it a second thought.

Are you implying the Macedonians who believe in the Macedonian Orthodox Church are pervert and are in some sort of a sect just because they are not recognised by you?

Yet, while there’s no problem with the marriage itself, at some point, the mixed couple will have to decide which Church their children will join (because they can’t join both).

Yes that is correct it should be decided by the couple and not by a flexible priest.
I am not sure if I am the only one but I haven't met a greek male married to a Macedonian girl however I know five Greek girls married to Macedonians. Exclude Grkomani from the list as they themselves don't know what they are? Correct me if I am wrong.

Of course Greek Army accepts the children of dual nationality and of any religion as soldiers or officers.

It may be true but it's not what the greek priest said to his son.

Going back to the topic about the Racist Greeks again, there is a short story written by Nove Mladenovski here in Australia about a couple about to get married. The male is greek whereas the girl is Macedonian. Part of it was read in Macedonian on the SBS Macedonian radio program on 31st July.

Those who are interested in listening to it can go to http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/m...udiohighlights and click on the Sunday, 31st July (10:00-11:00pm).
It starts at around the 44:50 minute mark and lasts for about 15 minutes.

[lavce pelagonski]

Hey Cultea I think the Greek church is a sect not ours

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/18785/48/

Greek Priest Prevents Marriage between Macedonian and Greek PDF Print E-mail
Wednesday, 03 August 2011

32 year old Macedonian Marija and 35 year old Athens born Dionysus met each other in Solun back in 2010. Dionysus teaches electro technical subject in Athens and at the time was visiting Solun.

Both met with a group of friends who after three days together decided they will meet again. Love at first sight?

Their next meeting was the time when the problems started. All of it caused by an Athenian priest who Dionysus had much respect for.

Upon hearing of Dionysus' new girlfriend the Athenian priest strongly objected.



"When he spoke to his priest, Dionysus was told to never be in a relationship with a Macedonian, we were a sect of unruly unorthodox people and he would be in danger. For example, the priest told him Macedonians would probably break his car!?" says Marija.



"When he first arrived in Skopje, I took him to Vero, a Greek owned shop. Dionysus was shocked that Greeks have invested in Macedonia's capital and that their shops had never had any issues.

In Athens they are told no Greek companies invest in Macedonia because they would put their business in danger." says Marija.

She took Dionysus to numerous cities in Macedonia.

Few months later Marija went to Athens where she was welcomed warmly by the family. She brought gifts for everyone.

The next day Dionysus, being a devout Christian took Marija to meet the priest. However, the priest refused to meet Marija and only spoke to Dionysus. What was to be 5 minute conversation turned into more than half an hour. Dionysus planned to ask for blessing from the priest to take Marija to be his wife.



It certainly was not what the Greek priest had in mind. Apart from refusing to meet Marija, the priest told Dionysus that his children would be considered Macedonian and would not be accepted in the Greek Army. No one in the Greek Church would bless such marriage. The priest explained the marriage would be unholy, empty and illogical. In the end the priest warned Dionysus he would be shunned by people and his kids would be raised to despise Greece.



To make things better for Dionysus, the Greek priest suggested to convert Marija to the Serbian Orthodox Church, then he would be able to bless the marriage.

"When Dionysus finally returned from his meeting with the priest, he was a changed man. He was pale as a ghost and appeared nervous." says Marija.

"When he told me what the priest had said, to say that I was shocked would be un understatement." adds Marija.

Dionysus suggested the idea for Marija to convert to the Serbian Orthodox Church which she did not accept. Disappointed, Marija broke off the engagement and left Athens.

Marija and Dionysus both still keep in touch, but don't see each other.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Dionysus suggested the idea for Marija to convert to the Serbian Orthodox Church which she did not accept. Disappointed, Marija broke off the engagement and left Athens.

Good for you Marija, the fact that he would even ask you to change churches is the greatest insult and akin to somebody asking you change your Macedonian identity. Clearly, this weakling of a 'man' was not for you. You never asked him to change anything. Obviously being a slave to his priest was more important than his apparent love for you. As for the Greek priest, no suprise, many (if not most) of them have a long tradition and precedent of being racists.