Australian position on Macedonia

[Pelister]

Ofcourse the Macedonians would be better off if they actively opposed the anti-Macedonian structures operating in the IC at the moment.

We have a problem because they will not.

We also have UMD which is a splinter group in the diaspora making comments such as this:

President of UMD

... I would prefer us to be called something like Democratic Republic of Macedonia instead.

Macedonia Media Monitors, 13 March, 2008

To call UMD subservient is an understatement. They are Macedonians apologizing to the West and to Western institutions for being the rest of us "nationalists" who want nothing more than to end the neogtiations.

UMD will not organize to end the negotiations. Nor will it call it, nor denounce the Interim Accord.

President of UMD said recently on ZMR

"we feel tht perhaps a political modifier such as Democratic might be more acceptable only for international use ..."

Phoenix,

That is the keenest of assesments.

UMD is a tool of Amercian (i.e., Western) foriegn policy.

These Western structures are anti-Macedonian, but UMD being a group of Macedonians who represent "the West" will never reject or denounce these Western made structures. That would make them appear to be going against their own - the West.

Notice how UMD won't do anything to end the negotiations, or stall the Framework.

[TajnataKniga]

I don't know about "faiths" but the ideology of "Fate" is good cover for those preaching subservience and slave mentality - the sellouts!

You must have gone to the Meto Koloski/Buktop and Co. school of "realpolitik" then?


Can one conclude that the MK government would be better served and better positioned to defend Macedonian national interests in the world of realpolitik if it had a vigorous and active opposition, especially in the Diaspora, to the planned deconstruction agendas of the "IC"?

If Macedonian Diaspora wants to play realpoitik games, it must organise and actively mobilise its human and material resources to effect change inside the Macedonian state, as the "IC", MPO, Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia and Albanians are, and have been, doing.

Lastly, can you, Kniga, tell us why the US of A recognised Macedonia by her state (rightful) name in 2004?

slave mentality? who has slave mentality? and who is preaching slave mentality?

IC encompasses what?

we know why the US recognized macedonia, one of the public reasons was the framework agreement and decentralisation. the other was the 100,000 hardcore republican macedonians in ohio in the 2004 elections. dont belittle your compatriots. macedonians in america have been working hard to put pressure on america to recognize macedonia and they achieved it.

[TajnataKniga]

interesting...

Ofcourse the Macedonians would be better off if they actively opposed the anti-Macedonian structures operating in the IC at the moment.

We have a problem because they will not.

We also have UMD which is a splinter group in the diaspora making comments such as this:

President of UMD

Macedonia Media Monitors, 13 March, 2008

To call UMD subservient is an understatement. They are Macedonians apologizing to the West and to Western institutions for being the rest of us "nationalists" who want nothing more than to end the neogtiations.

UMD will not organize to end the negotiations. Nor will it call it, nor denounce the Interim Accord.

President of UMD said recently on ZMR



Phoenix,

That is the keenest of assesments.

UMD is a tool of Amercian (i.e., Western) foriegn policy.

These Western structures are anti-Macedonian, but UMD being a group of Macedonians who represent "the West" will never reject or denounce these Western made structures. That would make them appear to be going against their own - the West.

Notice how UMD won't do anything to end the negotiations, or stall the Framework.

hi pelister (great mountain - been skiing there once).

i cannot see anywhere how UMD is a tool of american foreign policy - am i missing something?

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/418/51/

WASHINGTON, D.C. - June 15, 2009 - On June 13, 2009, on the occasion of the 1st United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) Global Conference, the UMD Board of Directors passed a resolution offering unwavering and consistent support for the protection of the constitutional name of the Republic of Macedonia. The text of the resolution is as follows:

R E S O L U T I O N
OF THE

BOARD OF DIRECTORS
OF THE

UNITED MACEDONIAN DIASPORA

DATED: JUNE 13, 2009

The Board of Directors of the United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD), on the occasion of UMD's First Global Conference, affirming UMD's unwavering and consistent support for retention of the constitutional name of the Republic of Macedonia and UMD's rejection of attempts to impose any name contrary to the Republic of Macedonia's constitutional name, hereby declares:

WHEREAS, the Republic of Macedonia peacefully and democratically declared its independence from Yugoslavia on September 8, 1991, and

WHEREAS, the Macedonian people, upon peacefully securing their independence, rightfully chose their historic and ancestral name for themselves and their state, and

WHEREAS, the Republic of Macedonia's constitutional name is central to the identity and self-determination of the Macedonian people, their Macedonian language, culture and heritage, and to the creation of a stable, prosperous, and tolerant democratic society; THEREFORE BE IT,

RESOLVED, that the United Macedonian Diaspora, reiterates its unwavering support for retention of the constitutional name of the Republic of Macedonia, rejects attempts to impose any name contrary to the historically accepted and democratically affirmed name of the Republic of Macedonia and the Macedonian people, and urges the full membership of Macedonia in NATO and a date certain for negotiations for membership in the European Union.

[TajnataKniga]

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/190/52/

The United Macedonian Diaspora sent a letter on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 to the Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, in light of her meeting with the Greek Minister of Foreign Affairs, Ms. Dora Bakoyannis, whose government blatantly denies the existence of a Macedonian national minority within Greece's borders.

--------------------------------------------------

March 21, 2007

The Honorable Nancy Pelosi
Speaker of the House
235 Cannon HOB
Washington, DC 20515

Dear Congresswoman Pelosi:

First, allow me to congratulate you on becoming the first woman in U.S. history as Speaker of the House. I value your leadership.

I understand that you will have the opportunity to meet with the Greek Foreign Minister, Ms. Dora Bakoyannis tomorrow. According to the news in Athens, her meetings with U.S. policy makers will focus, among other things, on the ongoing and absurd name dispute over my ancestral homeland, the Republic of Macedonia. I would like to bring to your attention some concerns regarding Greece’s treatment of minorities and its relations with its neighboring country of Macedonia.

In 1992, the Greek government, in a fit of xenophobia and fear demanded that newly independent Macedonia find an alternative name and national symbols, as Macedonia can “only” belong to Greece. Macedonia originally refused, resulting in a devastating economic embargo that only ended in 1995 when Macedonian authorities, under clear duress, were forced into signing an unfair and imbalanced Interim Accord with Athens. This agreement is unique, as it is the first instance in history where one state is actively denying another state’s sovereign right to name itself, in direct defiance of the UN Charter and its guarantees of national self-determination. Ironically, Athens demands that negotiations on Macedonia’s name continue under the same UN auspices, which it violated in 1995.

Despite the agreement, over 120 countries worldwide, including the United States, Russia, China, India, the United Kingdom, Poland, Turkey, as well as Macedonia’s immediate neighbors, Bulgaria and Serbia, all recognize Macedonia as the Republic of Macedonia. To date, the only state with any objection to Macedonia’s use of its constitutional and historic name is Greece.

Upon US recognition, the Greek government began a serious and threatening diplomatic offensive against Macedonia. It is no secret that the Greek government intends to block Macedonia’s Euro-Atlantic integration, especially NATO membership, if it does not remove “Macedonia” from its name.

What the Greek government fails to recognize is its attitude towards its sizable Macedonian minority. A verifiable and well-documented genocide of Macedonians in Greece occurred after the Balkan Wars (1912-1913), following the Greek-Turkish war (1921-1923) and during the Greek Civil War (1946-1949).

In a recent interview, the Greek Foreign Minister stated the following:

“I am proud of the capacity of Greek democracy. All citizens of Greece have equal rights. I am sure that you already know that in Greece there is only one minority in Western Thrace and those are the Muslims. There is no such thing as ‘a Macedonian minority.’ Whenever some political formation has sprung out under the title of “minority” it has never managed to gain popular support.” However, the Minister failed to mention that recently the European Court in Strasbourg found Greece in violation of the rights of the Macedonian minority in Greece.

Today, Macedonians in Greece are banned from speaking their language in public, cannot sing to their traditional folk songs, have had their names transliterated into Greek, and have even had cemetery headstones in the Macedonian Cyrillic script replaced with Greek ones (the names were transliterated). In addition, Macedonian visitors to Greece are forced to accept bumper stickers on their cars declaring, “Macedonia is Greek.” Refugees from the genocide of the 20th century who list in their passports the Macedonian (and not Greek) name of their birthplace are declared persona non grata. For many, this is not an issue of nationalism, but simple failure to know the Greek names instituted for their hometowns after the Greek occupation. All of this discrimination is happening in the cradle of Democracy.

The dilemma of how to end state sponsored discrimination against minorities in Greece is again being revisited by the international community through criticism from the State Department, Amnesty International, and other human rights groups, but the primary focus still fails to connect the Macedonia name issue to the problem of Greek state sponsored discrimination. Bipartisan support underscoring the need to end oppression against minorities by the Greek government is strongly urged. Any talks relating to the Macedonia name issue must incorporate, and focus on, the discrimination of the Macedonian minority in Greece, as well. At the end of the day, a country's official name generally poses very little harm to ordinary people, but the harm posed by turning a blind eye to bigotry, prejudice, and fanaticism allows discrimination to thrive.

It is not my intent to drag ethnic Balkan politics into the United States Congress. However, I cannot idly sit by while my ancestral homeland and my people are slandered by a state which refuses to acknowledge the existence of any ethnic minorities on its territory, and which uses its history, ties to the West, and powerful Diaspora as a smokescreen for non-violent genocide.

I trust you will take my considerations to heart in light of your meeting with Ms. Bakoyannis. I look forward to your response.

Sincerely,


Metodija A. Koloski, President

[TajnataKniga]

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/185/51/

by Ordan Andreevski

Why hasn’t the Australian Government or opposition recognised the Republic of Macedonia under its Constitutional name? Why should it and what can the Australian Macedonian community do about it?

The Australian Macedonian community has many unmet social and political needs such as the name issue as a result of historical, political, management, and strategic realities and inaction. The capacity of ethnic communities to influence Australian foreign policy is dependent on their level of commitment, the degree of unity and the strength of their organisations to plan, organize resources, implement campaigns, provide leadership, raise and build sustainable funding and learn from past experience and best practice. Size of the community is not the critical issue as can be seen from the Jewish community’s example and its strong influence on Australia’s foreign policy in the Middle East.

Why hasn’t the Australian Government or Opposition recognised the Republic of Macedonia under its constitutional name?

International Political Factors

The UN decision on the interim name FYROM is still in force and negotiations are in theory taking place in New York between Greece and the Republic of Macedonia;

The European Union follows the UN Directive to appease Greece;

Strong Greek lobbying is continuing on bilateral and multilateral levels (EU, UN, NATO, Australia, USA, etc…);

Relatively weak and unfocused lobbying by the Republic of Macedonia and its Diaspora in so far as Australia is concerned;

Since independence, the governments of Macedonia have been preoccupied with joining NATO and the EU and has not invested adequate resources in building strong, regular and quality economic, political and cultural relations with Australia and its Diaspora unlike Israel, Armenia, Greece or Cyprus;
Australian Political Factors

South Eastern Europe has not been a foreign policy priority or development assistance target for Australia’s governments; Australia’s potential diplomatic contribution to the region has not been debated in Parliament and Australia does not have a strategy and policy for the region;

Most Cabinet Ministers and Australian Members of Parliament would be ignorant of and not engaged with South East European Affairs;

The Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister and Australian Members of Parliament have not been presented with a compelling case or the return on investment argument as to why they should satisfy the symbolic political needs of Australian Macedonians and risk alienating the Greek lobby; The response to the logical question of What is in it for them needs to be carefully thought through and articulated convincingly.

Most political and international relations editors and journalists in Australia are ignorant of issues in South Eastern Europe let alone Macedonian affairs and have not been briefed on priorities and gaps in the Australia-South Eastern Europe relationship;

Change of policy on the Macedonian name issue has not been a high priority for the Howard Government and the Opposition nor has it been a burning issue for the Australian Macedonian community;

Strong lobbying by Greece and its Diaspora in Australia continues especially by its political and business class which has infiltrated and influenced mainstream institutions and the Offices of the Prime Minister and those of State Premiers, Cabinets and Members of Parliament;

Relatively weak and uncoordinated lobbying by the under-resourced Embassy of Macedonia and the Australian Macedonian community;

The Australian Macedonian community have been seen as loyal Australian Labor Party (ALP) voters by the Liberals hence little incentive to appease them;

The Australian Macedonian community has missed unique strategic political opportunities to vote for Macedonian candidates endorsed by the Liberal Party at State and Federal elections;

The Australian Macedonian community has been taken for granted by the ALP with little effort needed to appease them even with symbolic concessions like recognizing Macedonia by its constitutional name ;

The Australian Macedonian community has been powerless in Australia without any elected Members of Parliament at State and Federal level; furthermore the community has not leveraged its political strength effectively in the past decade; It has not been a swinging electorate and appears to lack political sophistication or strategy for gaining power and influence in Australia.

The Australian Macedonian community has since the mid 1990’s become disoriented, split and disengaged from Australian politics;

The Australian Macedonian community does not have a peak national representative body that can speak as one voice, with authority and legitimacy with Australian politicians, policy makers and the media;

The public row in Australian courtrooms between Archbishop Petar and certain Australian Macedonian Orthodox Church Councils did not help the Macedonian cause, reputation, image or help preserve scare financial resources for community capacity building and advocacy and the issue needs to be resolved urgently.

The quality and independence of some Australian Macedonians engaged in local, state and federal political activity is an issue of concern given that some have been only too willing to be foot soldiers for MPs and have had a counterproductive impact on the Macedonian cause;

The best and brightest second generation Australian Macedonian young leaders, professionals, entrepreneurs and intellectuals have not been attracted and retained in large numbers in community development initiatives, in leadership roles in organisations or in political campaigns.
Why should the Australian Government or Opposition recognise the Republic of Macedonia under its constitutional name?

The people of Macedonia have the exclusive right to determine their name and identity and have voted in referendums to adopt the constitutional name which all other states in the UN should respect;

So far 120 sovereign states have recognized the Republic of Macedonia under its constitutional name including USA, China, Russia, India, Turkey, UK, and others because it is the right thing to do from an ethical, social justice and strategic perspective, hence its time for Australia to follow suit;

The term ‘Former Yugoslav’ is no longer logical as Yugoslavia no longer exists as a state but the Republic of Macedonia does;

The term ‘Former Yugoslav’ is insulting and goes against the wishes of the Macedonian people for self determination;

The Republic of Macedonia has been a factor of peace, stability, democracy, humanitarian assistance and regional integration in South Eastern Europe and needs to be recognized for its efforts by Australia;

The Republic of Macedonia like Australia has been supporting the War on Terror with troops still in Iraq and Afghanistan;

The Republic of Macedonia has embraced European values and integration into the EU and the NATO alliance. It has made systemic reforms as a result of which it now has a Candidate Status in the EU;

The Government of Macedonia is actively trying to develop closer economic relations with Australia as seen by recent advertisements in The Australian newspaper by Invest-in-Macedonia;

The Australian Government should live up to its proclaimed values by standing on the side of justice and not bow to the pressure from Greek politicians and its Diaspora;

Greece is the largest foreign investor in the Republic of Macedonia;

The Australian Macedonian community expects a fair and proper response from the Australian Government and the opposition.

The Australian Macedonian community has a genuine interest, desire and intent to build closer political, economic and cultural relationships between Australia and Macedonia and will work in partnership with stakeholders in developing and implementing a Strategic Plan to that effect.
In an election year, the attention of busy Australian politicians and their policy advisors will be focused on burning issues relevant to their party’s survival, the national interest and more importantly to retaining power or winning office. The low priority Macedonian name issue is not on the radar screens of the Federal Government and the opposition and will be competing with other more pressing issues and campaigns launched by influential, professional and well funded sources. How to get on the radar screen and persuade Australian politicians to devote scare time and accept the Macedonian Constitutional name proposal will be a major challenge for any Campaign Committee.

Factors that may trigger a shift in policy on the name issue in Australia

Change of policy at the UN, EU and Greece in favor of Macedonia;

Development and implementation of a Strategic Plan for Building closer Political, Economic and Cultural Relations between Australia and Macedonia which may involve setting up an Australia-Macedonia Institute or Foundation or an Australia-South Eastern Europe Institute.

Launch of a campaign titled It is time to Recognise Macedonia’s Constitutional Name designed to influence the Australian Prime Minister and his Cabinet as well as Federal MPs, the opposition and foreign policy community, editors and journalists;

Media pressure targeting the above political actors using op-ed pieces, articles, letters, reports etc to build a case for a change of policy on the name issue;

Sending Australian journalist on a fact finding mission to Macedonia;

Australian Macedonian candidates standing as independents;

Australian Macedonians joining the ALP, the Liberal Party etc. and seeking endorsement and opportunities for advancing the Australia Macedonia relationship;

Series of high level meetings with Government and opposition leaders;

Political donations to the Liberal Party and the ALP and continue to lobby for pressing Macedonian community issues;

Issuing How to Vote Cards in the lead up to the Federal Election based on the candidates and their party’s policy on the name issue.

Development and Implementation of a Strategic Plan for Uniting, Empowering and Integrating the Australian Macedonian community with mainstream Australian institutions, the Republic of Macedonia and the global Macedonian Diaspora and with other partners and friends.
The Australian Macedonian community can use strategic public affairs management to advance its interests in Australia and globally. Vision can be translated into reality with clear thinking, action and partnership with dedicated and competent leaders and stakeholders. A bit of national pride and readiness to invest in our future also helps.

The Australian Macedonian community will need to get its house in order before it can make an impact on Australian foreign policy. Addressing the problems and opportunities identified in this article will be a precondition for success.

Ordan Andreevski is a PhD Candidate in Management at the University of Melbourne and a member of the United Macedonian Diaspora. He can be reached by e-mail at [email protected]is e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it .

[TajnataKniga]

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/278/51/

UMD and MHRMI Met With Ambassador Nimetz Over Recent Name Issue Developments
Friday, 09 November 2007
кликни тука за македонски

United Macedonian Diaspora and Macedonian Human Rights Movement International - Press Release

New York, New York – On November 8, 2007, Washington, D.C.-based United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) President Metodija A. Koloski, Vice-President Aleksandar Mitreski and Toronto-based Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) Secretary Mark Opashinov held a meeting with United Nations Special Envoy Ambassador Matthew Nimetz to discuss recent developments on the name dispute between Greece and the Republic of Macedonia.

UMD and MHRMI reiterated their positions regarding the name dispute stating that the Republic of Macedonia was a federally constituted republic under Yugoslavia since 1944 and had maintained relations with Greece years before it declared independence in 1991. It was not until 1988 when Greece realized that independence was in sight that it renamed “Northern Greece” to the “Province of Macedonia.” Greece continued its campaign of non-recognition and persecution of its sizable Macedonian minority and any proposed name other than “Republic of Macedonia” would legitimize Greece’s official policy.

The Republic of Macedonia is neither a de jure nor a de facto threat to its neighbours. In fact, the Republic of Macedonia’s actions stand in stark contrast to Greece’s intransigent position which, rather than encouraging stability, promotes instability and discord in the Balkans. The unilateral imposition of an embargo against the Republic of Macedonia in 1992 was just the most blatant attempt to thwart the survival of the Republic. UMD and MHRMI are deeply concerned for the stability of the government of the Republic of Macedonia and for the entire Balkan region if Greece’s threats of vetoing Macedonia’s NATO candidacy thwart its entry into the NATO alliance.

UMD and MHRMI expressed concern to Ambassador Nimetz regarding irredentist statements recently made by Metropolitan Bishop Anthimos of the Greek Orthodox Diocese of Thessaloniki. A call for the partition of at least two other Balkan states (the Republic of Macedonia and Bulgaria) by a leader of the Greek Orthodox Church is simply unacceptable and, moreover, is inconsistent with the Greece’s confirmation of the “common existing frontier as an enduring and inviolable international border” under the terms of the 1995 Interim Accord between Greece and the Republic of Macedonia.

UMD and MHRMI pointed out that, in accordance with the relevant international norms, the Republic of Macedonia, as any other country, has the right to self-determination. One of the basic demonstrations of this right is the right to one’s identity and name. No nation has the right to name another. The United Nations should follow the example of over 120 countries worldwide which have recognized Macedonia under its constitutional name.



very positive!!!

[TajnataKniga]

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/273/51/

UMD Urges the UN to Recognize the Republic of Macedonia by Its Constitutional Name
Thursday, 01 November 2007
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
October 31, 2007

Contact: Dijana Despodova Pajkovski
Phone: (202) 213-4441
[email protected]his e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Earlier today, the United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) added its name to voices from around the world calling on the United Nations to finally recognize the Republic of Macedonia under its constitutional name.

As UMD President Metodija A. Koloski stated: “A constitutional name is crucial to any nation’s identity, and it is essential to the inalienable right to self-determination, as enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. In the court of public opinion, there is no debate on this issue. The Republic of Macedonia is a respected member of the brotherhood of nations and it is a stabilizing factor in the Balkans. Sadly, due to internal pressure from domestic nationalists, the Greek government has felt compelled to continue its 16-year propaganda campaign against her peaceful northern neighbor in vain.”

On Thursday, November 1st, Macedonian and Greek diplomats will meet again in New York City to continue discussions about Greece’s objection to the name Macedonia; objections based on the absurd claim that this relatively small country has “territorial ambitions” against NATO member Greece.

Koloski stated: “Under no circumstances will the Macedonians ever accept a change to the name of their homeland. The government in Athens cannot possibly succeed with this bitter campaign of deception.” The Republic of Macedonia’s constitutional name has been recognized by over 120 countries.

Greece's own top diplomat to the Republic of Macedonia, Dora Grosomanidou, stated on July 8, 2007 to the Financial Times that "Greece has to face the new reality, as the... Republic of Macedonia has been recognized under its constitutional name [Macedonia] by more than half of the members of the U.N." The Greek government sacked her the very next day.

For almost 96 years there has been an official policy of discrimination and forced assimilation against all ethnic minorities in Greece, and these policies have been particularly brutal towards those who originate in territories the Greek government seized from Ottoman Empire in the Balkan Wars. To this day, there is still a large ethnic Macedonian minority in Greece, and that is the real reason behind Greece’s current media war against the Macedonian republic.

In 1991, this “dirty little secret” of the Cold War era spilled onto the international stage, when Macedonia became the only republic to peacefully gain its independence from Yugoslavia. For 16 years, Greece has callously assumed the right to dictate the name and identity of a sovereign neighbor, and in the process, it has actively destabilized the region.

Koloski concluded: “… (Greece) must end its discriminatory policies; policies that have no place in 21st century Europe. We hope that Athens will bring a new spirit of cooperation to the negotiation table this week – so that both nations can put the past behind them, and work together towards building a brighter future and good neighborly relations.”

[Phoenix]

you are barking on the wrong trip my friend. i agree with you that the american foreign policy has not been all dandy towards macedonia. what i want to know which i believe we answered above is whether macedonians in australia are anti-american because of general australian views, or because what america has done to the macedonians. we answered it, the later.

I don't entirely agree, as Australian Macedonians we are suspicious of America's involvement in Macedonia due to all of those reasons that have already been discussed in this thread. (see SoM's posts).
Also the wider Australian community is largely cautious about jumping onto the American foreign policy bandwagon, that's because there's a long history of post WWII Australian involvement in US adventurism...so as Australian Macedonians, we've seen it from many different angles...

i dont know what is being posted on maknews forum, but will check it out, my membership to the forum has not been approved yet.

You don't need membership to read what is posted on the Maknews Forum, c'mon 'Kniga', what game are you playing here...?

i read the article that is on the united macedonians website and its the same article i read in 2001 by the global politican posted before.

So then, why all of the questions Kniga, why did you pretend that you didn't know anything and why did you specifically single out the Australian Macedonians as being "Anti-American" when here we have a clear example of a Canadian group of Macedonian activists (United Macedonians) highlighting exactly the same concerns that they have for what they believe is American meddling in the Macedonian affairs thereby undermining Macedonia's sovereignty...

i strongly believe what america has done to macedonia is far less than what europe has done to macedonia. america didnt divide macedonia in four parts. im a third generation macedonian so dont know about the framework, i know what my grandparents had to go through at the hands of the grease and vulgarians, with the help of many powers, including america. how much money did america plug into grease through the german marshall fund and grease used it against macedonians? well time to change that. put things in our hands.

Kniga, this paragraph of yours is very disturbing, the 'interesting' part is how you describe yourself as a "third generation Macedonian"...WTF was the 4th generation before you then...?

On one hand you...
" strongly believe what america has done to macedonia is far less than what europe has done..."

and then you counter with this little gem...

" i know what my grandparents had to go through at the hands of the grease and vulgarians, with the help of many powers, including america. how much money did america plug into grease through the german marshall fund and grease used it against macedonians"?

what did macedonians in the diaspora do to prevent the framework agreement? how many meetings did macedonians hold with the government in the US and europe? real politik is, sadly, macedonians are not as active as they should be. albanians donate and give millions to government people in the US and europe. what do we give? and you are surprised albanians got the support we didnt?

Kniga, I don't think you get it at all...the Americans made sure that whichever way the Macedonian Government turned that they faced a roadblock, the diaspora raised alot of money in 2001 and the Macedonian Government had funds to hire mercenaries and purchase the military equipment that they needed to end the insurgency from Kosovo, that was orchestrated via Pentagon tools like MPRI and a host of other contracted dogs of war but slowly Washington turned the screws on Macedonia, denying her the means to defend herself through a arms blockade and threats via the IMF and World Banks to cut credit

based on what i have read it doesnt seem UMD is the american foreign policy machine. doesnt UMD have australian members and a branch there? it looks like UMD is trying to change things for macedonians and make us more united and more powerful. and this is what i applaud. good for them! i dont see how they harmed the macedonian cause

Kniga, it doesn't seem to me that you've ever seen anything.

[Risto the Great]

Lots of positive things TK.
Just the bit about the leadership of the UMD thinking a new name for Macedonia is acceptable and now this MPO alliance fiasco ... one wonders what else will come to light. Especially when it looks very much like a one horse race within the UMD organisation.

Why don't you ask the UMD for clarification TK?
See if Meto was merely speaking on his own behalf when he advocated the name change or on behalf of the UMD. If it was merely his own opinion, then perhaps you can ask what his power within the organisation is given his capacity as a paid employee.

Let us know your answers when you get them.

[Phoenix]

slave mentality? who has slave mentality? and who is preaching slave mentality?

IC encompasses what?

we know why the US recognized macedonia, one of the public reasons was the framework agreement and decentralisation. the other was the 100,000 hardcore republican macedonians in ohio in the 2004 elections. dont belittle your compatriots. macedonians in america have been working hard to put pressure on america to recognize macedonia and they achieved it.

Kniga...you're an MPO stooge

You're kidding yourself if you think a 'handful' of voting Macedonians had anything to do with US recognition of Macedonia...put it down completely to American 'interests'...the subservience of the Macedonian state to American interests and a new base for the CIA in Skopje which is probably the main reason because in this cosy little arrangement, Macedonia has become one of the very few 'sovereign' nations on the planet that knowingly provide CIA office space in the outer suburbs of Skopje, so deep is the entrenchment of American interests in Macedonia's sovereignty.

[TajnataKniga]

Cia

Kniga...you're an MPO stooge

You're kidding yourself if you think a 'handful' of voting Macedonians had anything to do with US recognition of Macedonia...put it down completely to American 'interests'...the subservience of the Macedonian state to American interests and a new base for the CIA in Skopje which is probably the main reason because in this cosy little arrangement, Macedonia has become one of the very few 'sovereign' nations on the planet that knowingly provide CIA office space in the outer suburbs of Skopje, so deep is the entrenchment of American interests in Macedonia's sovereignty.

your pulling s*** out of your arse Phoenix. you dont know anything about american politics. america is all about money and votes, and thats what politicans cater to.

check this out

http://the-macedonian-tendency.blogspot.com/2008/06/columbus-local-news-region-news.html

Village's Taneff strives for Macedonia-Columbus link
By MERYL WILLIAMS
Published: Friday, June 27, 2008 9:37 AM EDT
The Macedonian ambassador to the United States made his second trip to Columbus in a year on Thursday, June 19 very a special reason.

"The main event for our visit here is to open the Honorary Consulate office here in Ohio," said Ambassador Zoran Jolevski, who visited the area with a delegation of five others.

New Albany's own Thomas Taneff was named to the honorary consulate to the ambassador. Taneff served as a village councilman for 10 years and is a prominent adoption attorney. The appointment is the first in the Midwest. There are only two other Honorary Consuls in the U.S.

Taneff, a first-generation immigrant from Macedonia, said he is honored to be the honorary consul for the ambassador, and he has a personal tie to the country.

"The love of the country was instilled in us the day we were born," said Taneff. "Also the love of the culture, music, art, and food."

Taneff said he hoped the office would lead to stronger ties between the Macedonian population in Ohio and their native country.

Ohio has a population of at least 100,000 Macedonians, and a large portion of them live in Columbus, said Andia Sangale, an advisor in Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman's office.

She spoke at the opening ceremony which was held at 5:30 p.m. June 19 evening at the office in Taneff's downtown Columbus law office.

"We're so thrilled to have this office here," said Sangale. "We hope this brings more Macedonians to Columbus."

The ambassador shared some of his favorite moments in his career, which began last July when he presented his credentials to President George W. Bush upon starting his post.

"We had a good discussion with President Bush, who was a good friend to my president," he said.

His proudest moment came this past May, when the Declaration of Strategic Partnership between the U.S. and Macedonia was signed. The creation of the Honorary Consulate Office in Ohio was as a direct result of the signing, which was done out of recognition of the common goals between the two nations.

As consulate, Taneff will work to promote good relations between the countries, and strive to stoke culture exchanges, trade and tourism.

"It is emotionally very rewarding," he said. "I want to know that I might help improve the lives of people in Macedonia and help people here with local business opportunities."

The delegation and Taneff met with the Chamber of Commerce of Central Ohio to discuss benefits of investing in Macedonia, and they hope to see a return on their efforts.

"We've had two good meetings with local corporations that might invest over time," said Gligor Tashkovich, minister of foreign investments, who accompanied Jolevski as a representative to the government of Macedonia.

The ambassador said his second trip to the city was en enjoyable one.

"I hope to make two trips a year," he said. "We now have a strong tie with Columbus."

A reception was held at Taneff's New Albany home after the ceremony.

"It is emotionally very rewarding. I want to know that I might help improve the lives of people in Macedonia and help people here with local business opportunities."

[indigen]

hi pelister (great mountain - been skiing there once).

i cannot see anywhere how UMD is a tool of american foreign policy - am i missing something?

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/418/51/

Kniga, judging by your style in providing links, I am beginning to suspect we are dealing with Meto's shadow here. Hahaha


As for that resolution, it has some ridiculous assertions in it, such as the following: “A constitutional name is crucial to any nation’s identity, and it is essential to the inalienable right to self-determination, as enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights".

Our constitution was proclaimed in 1991 and easily amended in 2001 and it is the reason why the TRAITORS (and those sucked in by their propaganda) always place an emphasis on using the term "constitutional name" - it is amendable. FYI, the SMK and other politically alert and nationally conscious Macedonians and Macedonian organisations always use the term STATE NAME and have condemned those who propagate the "constitutional" terminology.

Meto used to use this quote below back in his early days and I suggest he go back to doing that again!

In March 2002, Mr. Richard Holbrooke, former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, delivered a lecture at Johns Hopkins University regarding the situation in the Balkans. Below is an excerpt from that lecture:

Question: How should Macedonians call themselves?
Answer: "Macedonians"
Question: Their country?
Answer: "Macedonia"
Question: Their language?
Answer: "Macedonian"
Question: How to solve the problem with the Greeks?
Answer: "the Greeks must learn to adjust"

[TajnataKniga]

meto

Lots of positive things TK.
Just the bit about the leadership of the UMD thinking a new name for Macedonia is acceptable and now this MPO alliance fiasco ... one wonders what else will come to light. Especially when it looks very much like a one horse race within the UMD organisation.

Why don't you ask the UMD for clarification TK?
See if Meto was merely speaking on his own behalf when he advocated the name change or on behalf of the UMD. If it was merely his own opinion, then perhaps you can ask what his power within the organisation is given his capacity as a paid employee.

Let us know your answers when you get them.

ive come to the conclusion its not UMD, its meto you guys are sooo against. ha duh! i dont see the MPO alliance fiasco (other organizations are part of that alliance (are they pro-bulgarian?), and i do not see the leadership promoting a name change to macedonia (the interview is open to everyone's interpretation - how come only MTO is complaining about the interview and i havent seen any other macedonians complaining). like i said im macedonian and do not want a name change. have you asked UMD clarification? i think the group is doing a great job. im very new to the community so you guys maybe know more than me. have you engaged with the group? you brag about meeting AMHRC and how you guys are in line with your ideals, have you met with anyone from UMD? seems to me false judgments based on some misinterpreted words.

[Vangelovski]

The Meto Koloski/Buktop and Co. school of "realpolitik"

This school is a must go for anyone who wants to pretend to understand highly complex issues in just 2-3 dot points.

[Vangelovski]

ive come to the conclusion its not UMD, its meto you guys are sooo against. ha duh! i dont see the MPO alliance fiasco (other organizations are part of that alliance (are they pro-bulgarian?), and i do not see the leadership promoting a name change to macedonia (the interview is open to everyone's interpretation - how come only MTO is complaining about the interview and i havent seen any other macedonians complaining). like i said im macedonian and do not want a name change. have you asked UMD clarification? i think the group is doing a great job. im very new to the community so you guys maybe know more than me. have you engaged with the group? you brag about meeting AMHRC and how you guys are in line with your ideals, have you met with anyone from UMD? seems to me false judgments based on some misinterpreted words.

TK,

I'm begining to suspect that you are from UMD. You've read enough on this forum to know the answers to the questions you're posing.