Originally posted by Вардарец
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It would be rather stupid (you too) to be convinced for either mine,or your granpas 2500 years ago..as for every individual. (esp in the Balcans)
He was stupid enough to point me to a link, which contained a picture.
This one :
But, after searching that site, i spotted something like this:
This one :
But, after searching that site, i spotted something like this:
The second ("your") map is also true ,but predates the first.
As Homer himself mentions in Iliad Paionians of Axios valley and Amydon(on the map) fought with the Troyans.
Homer wrote abt 800-750 BC referring to a war fought in c.1200 BC.
As i already wrote in the times of Alexander I ,Macedon expanded eastwards ,expelling the Paionians from the lower bank of Axios (Vardar).
Thats in the 1st half of 5th century BC .Centuries later.
I also remember that somewhere, SoM (Soldier of Macedonian) posted something in the following lines : "Samuil being from the Paeonians of old"
I would kindly ask him, if he remembers to re-post the quote/text piece from the book he was reading.
I would kindly ask him, if he remembers to re-post the quote/text piece from the book he was reading.
Chiliades, X.185. (reprint of the 1826 edition by Georg Ols, Hildesheim, 1963.)
My overall opinion about the Paeonians
Before the kingdom of Macedonia was formed, indigenous tribes did exist on the territory, calling themselves under different names. Those people were the same people like the tribe of Pelagonians and Paeonians to the north, and similar to the Illyrians (west) and Thracians(east).
Those tribes unified themselves into a kingdom, for a better protection, which they called it Makedon.
Philip from Macedonia, father of Alexander the Great Macedonian, incorporated those tribes into his kingdom. And remember, incorporation was not done to the hellenic city-states to the south of the kingdom, but a bloody conquest.
Before the kingdom of Macedonia was formed, indigenous tribes did exist on the territory, calling themselves under different names. Those people were the same people like the tribe of Pelagonians and Paeonians to the north, and similar to the Illyrians (west) and Thracians(east).
Those tribes unified themselves into a kingdom, for a better protection, which they called it Makedon.
Philip from Macedonia, father of Alexander the Great Macedonian, incorporated those tribes into his kingdom. And remember, incorporation was not done to the hellenic city-states to the south of the kingdom, but a bloody conquest.
The kingdom of Macedon was established around 700-650 BC by the Argeads when they passed from "Upper Macedonia" (modern west Greek Macedonia and Bitola region) through Vermion mt to the plain of Emathia and Pieria.
The Paionians continued to live independently in the North (modern RoM).
The two states co-existed till Philip II conquered Paionia by making it a semi-autonomous,subordinate kingdom.
He firstly bribed them to evacuate the lands they raided and invaded,when their allies Illyrians defeated Perdikkas (brother of Philip) and his Macedonian army in 359 BC-Perdikkas fell on the battlefield) and the following year he invaded them ,defeated and conquered them.
But even after some decates Paionians managed to escape the Macedonian rule and reestablished indipendence under their own king and with their own capital (First Bylazora ,then Astibos) -(Macedonian capitals first Aigai ,then Pella).
Again Philip V reconquered Paionians (217 BC)
Paionia was considered part of Macedonia only after the Roman conquest when it was icorporated in Perfectura Macedonia.
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